Siggi52

Hello Mark,

that looks all very good to me. But because I had not searched much for the fore part of the ships, but only the aft for the Dragon I could't help you there much. At leat some pictures of the forecastle and the chimney.

Bellona

and the model who is known as Thunderer, but I believe is the Dragon.

What I can say about the pillars at the upper gun deck is, that they had them only under every second beam. That is what I found out during my first visit at Greenwich. At the quarter deck where almost no pillars. At least one in front of the wheels. But I have no written record about this, only what I found researching the models where you could look inside. The first Bellona model has at least under every Beam a pillar, even at the quarter deck! I know no model with that future. I think they did this to stabilize the model better.

Hello Gary,

in Goodwin's book, english man of war, is a picture of Victories bow sprit and his step at page 174. It looks like you had already build it. 

Hello Gary,

at least, I puzzled also over that plan and together with the sheer plan it is much more confusing.

It is not a of a existing ship, it's the plan for the 1745 establishment. May be you find there something. Goodwin and also Lavery have it printed in there books.

Below is the plan of Tiger, build also after this establishment.

One thought, could it be that the blue lines are the carlings and that green square is the foot fore the bow sprit? Than may be the four (or at least two) broader planks are the one through which the bow sprit goes, with an opening that fits the bow sprit. Like the those around the mast. Sorry my english 🤔

Good morning Gary,

that is really great modelling what you did. I can not really help you with your question, but send you a picture of the plan for the 1745 establishment. It's for a 60 gunner, so the ship is a little smaller than yours. 

I think, in front of the bow sprit you did not need planks, because there would't walk any one and below is the manger. In the back the planks endet around the bowsprit. I don't think that you need there any ledges to support them, or at least one as you have build it already. But that is only a guess. I hope that I could help a little.

Hello Mark,

some notes from Falconer and Boudriot's, the 74 gun ship, Vol 2 page 135. 

First what Falconer under Helm wrote

and Boudriot

I deleted the picture, because of copyright and so on

So at least you could turn the wheel only 2,5 or 3,5 turns to one or the other side. For the Dragon I made also 7 turns at the wheel, I think that is what Goodwin wrote. At Page 136 he wrote also something about the sliding foot assembly. May be you find by Falconer more about this.

Hello Mark,

I made some changes in your drawing, so that your drawing fit the Dorsetshire drawing. 

The sweep is there totally between the beams. For the Dragon I build the lip under the beams and only the upper part between them. And yes Gary, the structure below the beam is the sheave for the tiller rope. In my drawing I put it a little forward to get free from the tiller, whom I also shorten a little. But Mark, may be you find a way not to shorten the tiller.

And so looks the sheave for the tiller rope at the Dragon

Mark, one question about the layout of the carlings and ledges. I went here with Lavery, page 52/53 in his Bellona book. From where did you get your design? It looks strange when you cut of the tops of the knees for the carlings. 

Hello Mark,

I would agree with Gary, that you should set back the sweep between beam 24 and 25 and follow Lavery's sketch at page 65 of his Bellona book. But I set the blocks for the tiller rope in front of the 24. beam and fitted my sweep between the beams and then it works. I hope the picture explains better what I mean.

Thank you for your kind words, and yes, many nations ships had in those times lions as figureheads. 

Hello,

and many thanks for the many likes and nice comments. I do my very best to satisfy you. 

@Karl, as Greg already mentioned, you could see these red muzzles on many models of that time and also at paintings. Not only at english ships, but also the „Wappen von Hamburg III“ has that future.

 Lt. Gabriel Bray

At least I did't post here for a long time. I got the Corona Bluse, but good luck not the infection. Because the summer here in the northern part of Germany is more or les cold it is much colder in my basement. So I'm fixing this and that at my house and garden, and when the sun is shining I relax in the garden and doing nothing. 😊

So, Mark, you did't miss anything.

Stay all sound

Hello Mark P,

that picture with the black spirketting is the model SLR0472, a 60 gunner ca 1745, 1:60. The pictures of the Ajax I think I have from this web site and are may be from you. NMM
SLR0311 https://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/66272.html

The Minerva is from the NMM SLR0317 https://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/66278.html There are a lot more models, but I think you are right, mostly they painted the spirketting red.

Good morning Mark,

I'm not sure, but I think that all these ivory parts where in reality not always white. If you look close at the pictures of the Victory, there the wheels are red! But because you could turn ivory better then wood and it looks pretty good, so they leave it white. And all the wooden parts who where'd painted, where in reality may be ocher painted like the figures at the stern. You have to paint wood that is exposed to the sunlight to protect it. 

Hello,

Mark, the officers quarters at the upper deck and the captains cabin where painted white at the Bellona. I thought that I send you all my pictures I have of the Bellona!

Here you could see it also at the deck beams.

That light blue or green color was very popular during the 18. century and even before and later. The color I used for the Dragon is from Humbrol „Matt 65" 

A good example for colouring a ship is the Victory model SLR0512 https://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/66473.html

Here you could see the whole middle deck is painted white inside, the cabins at the upper deck are blue and at the quarter deck green. The spirketting you could see is black and the planking above it is red. The last thing you could see at many models like the Ajax, Warrior, Minerva and the model SLR0472 I saw at Chatham. So it is not very unusually. 

Hello and many thanks for your likes,

it is done, all cannons are ready! Here they are all together at the gun deck, or at least there carriages.

And that they are

I have one question to an administrator. Did you change there something with the likes? They did't turn up in my notifications. There are now only the comments listed. The last time I have much trouble to open this site, I think because of too much traffic when in the US starts the day now in the Corona time. So some times I shut down this site when it was't open correctly. It takes sometimes up to 10 minutes with a traffic of 1-5 KB/s. 🤨 Many thanks in advance 

Hello and many thanks for your likes and comments.

today I finished the 12 pdr's. Because the deck is't ready, I can't install there barrels. But the two extra guns are ready for display.

Now only the dozen 6 pdr's are left. 😃 

And that are the carriages for the guns of the ship. That was a lot more work than expected. 

Hello,

and many thanks for your likes and nice comments. That encourage me a little more to build all these tiny little eye- and ring bolts. 

It is done, the gun deck is fitted with cannons. Next I will build all the other cannons more or less ready. Then all cannons could go back into there garage and wait until there permanent installation. 

Hello and thank you all for your likes and comments,

today, the gun deck got his guns 😊

To get all at the same high

and that they are

The port side guns, from my mothers side I'm Prussia

And here they are on board. The decks where very curved in those days

Hi Mark,

and if you make the spear from metal. I read, I think in Old Ship Figure-Heads and Sterns, that at some ships they removed all things from the figure head who could get lost by a heavy sea. Even arms!

Hello and thank you for the many likes and comments,

yesterday and today I was busy bending eye- and ringbolts. That is not my world, mass fabrication and this is just the beginning 😧

But here the first results. For the gun deck I would't fitting out more cannons with these bolts, because you would't see them later. But I have to install at least the bolts for the ship. 

Hello and many thanks you for the likes and comments,

it is done. At least all carriages so far ready. If you count them, I made two extra of every size. The next thing will be to made all the ring- and eyebolts. 

Hello and thank you for the likes and comments,

today I finished the carriages for the 12 pdr. The master shipwright was very pleased. Now only the dozen 6 pdr's are left. 😀 But after that comes the paint job and all the hardware 😟

Hello and many thanks for your likes and comments

@Learner, please do not make it toooo thick. I do not know so much and then only about ships from the middle of the 18th century. 🤥

I'm back in the basement, it's raining here! 27l/qm yesterday, wow. Next week I have to mow my lawn for the first time this year.

But back to the arsenal. I turned the wheels for all cannons and made the axles for the 12 pdr. That is not my world, mass production. Just that I say it now, I do NOT rigg the cannons! Most of them you would't see at all. But here some pictures from today. All the sides, the axles, transoms and the wheels. And one assembled cannon, the rest will follow tomorrow.

Hello

and many thanks for all the likes and comments

I'm still working at the arsenal. But because we have here the best weather since ever, no rain since six weeks, and always sunshine, I took my lathe and reside now in the conservatory. 

Here I turned all the wheels. That took me two days busy. Then I build the stool beds down in the basement, I would't bring up my whole equipment

and the wedges. The handles are from 1 mm rods I made for the Dragon. 

And here the result

Tomorrow I have to buy new material and then turn the wheels for the other canons. These are now oiled and could dry in the sun until I paint them red. That is a drawback from the LED lights, they have no UV radiation in there program and most oils need them to harden. 

Hello, and many thanks for all the likes and comments

I had been a little lazy the last days, but today I assembled the first carriages. First I turned the arms to the axles. For that I build that little thing you see to the right. It is hollow and has the diameter of the arms. I'm sorry, my english ☹️, but I hope you understand what I would say.

And today I started to assemble all the parts. To build the jig was most time consuming, but then it war an easy working.

And here the first 24 pdr, now without wheels. They come later and tomorrow the last carriages.

You could see here also how I build up the sides. The form for the 24 pdr canons has a defekt I did't see when I made the form. Later I had not enough material left to correct that. But in reality it is hardly visible. So I left it so.

Hello,

yesterday I build up the side pieces for the cannons and today I made the drawings for the axles, so that the carpenters tomorrow have enough to work.

I work here after Muller and his list of dimensions.

Hello Tom,

if it is the Leopard of 1790, then I would paint the figure head in natural colors. Do not guild it.