Bob Cleek

8 minutes ago, KeithAug said:

This is correct and in addition I would advise against wearing rings while doing machine work - they also lead to missing digits.

And dangling jewelry of any kind, especially necklaces.

And long sleeves. 

And long hair.

What wefalck said. Note that in the pictures above, these lines are apparently Dacron. Few traditional vessels today will be rigged with anything else. The old natural fiber lines simply can't compare in the "real world." Dacron does not stain easily and will stay "white" longer than natural cordage. Photos of full-size ships today aren't an accurate measure of what period ships' rigging really looked like. (There is, however, specialty cordage and sailcloth for traditional vessels which is dyed various shades of cream and tan color to simulate the natural materials.)  

The set decorators doing Master and Commander - The Far side of the World took pains to get every detail right, though. The line on the ship, in the close-ups, at least, appears to be natural fiber cordage and this is what it really looks like after use. Note that the lines in the foreground are a slightly different shade than the lines in the upper left hand corner of the frame. Note also that the frayed strands of what appears to be a broken, unraveled line in the upper left corner and upper right hand corner of the frame are lighter, as would be the case, as they hadn't been exposed to as much dirt and weather. The standing rigging, being oiled, would be very dark brown and at a distance appear black.

On 11/29/2019 at 4:06 PM, Richmond said:

The refill pens this company makes seems to be getting popular - irritating website I'm afraid https://www.molotow.com/

It had to happen: a line of canned spray paint designed for "taggers."

6 hours ago, Duanelaker said:

I am very new to air brushing and have been using vallejos air line of paint, I assumed I shouldn’t thin this paint since it’s designed for air brushing out of the bottle...should I be?  I’m not too concerned with money as all of it is cheaper then the cigarettes I used to smoke lol but I don’t like being wasteful.

If you are getting satisfactory results out of it in your airbrush, you're doing it right. Customarily, acrylics that aren't pre-thinned for airbrushing should be thinned at a ratio of two parts paint to one part thinner. Formerly, all oil-based paint was formulated to be "conditioned," meaning thinned as needed. No knowledgeable painter would apply paint "right out of the can." With the advent of the DIY market, however, paints started being "dumbed down" so the uninitiated DIYers could use it "out of the can" without getting terrible results and blaming the paint company for those. Curiously, with oil-based paints, at least, this led to formulations with higher VOCs (solvents) and when the environmental regulations starting going into effect all over the place, they were back to square one with "thicker" paints that had to be thinned again in order to keep the as-sold VOCs below the legal limits. The water-based paints and acrylics, having little or no VOCs, then began to take over the market to comply with the low-VOC limits. Good paint has never been "cheap" and paint is one of those things where you get what you pay for. The problem with model paints, which require large amounts of finely ground pigments to cover without detail-concealing paint build up, were always for these reasons among the most expensive (since the most expensive component in paint are the pigments, some colors much more than others.) Add to that the cost of retail inventory overhead for hundreds of pre-mixed colors and packaging in little tiny bottles and cans, and an ounce of model  paint becomes some of the most expensive paint on the planet. The most economical way to paint models with fine pigment archival-quality paint is to use quality tubed artists' oil paints and color-mix, thin, and condition them with linseed oil, turpentine and Japan dryer yourself. A small bit out of the tube can be mixed and stored in your own bottles for a while before it goes bad, but the bulk oil in the "toothpaste tube" lasts a long, long time. Artists oils are sold in varying degrees of opacity and are easily sourced in high-pigment-load form which permits full coverage without paint building up and destroying fine detail on the model.

This thread got me wondering whether pre-mixed solvent-based enamel model paint was available at all in the US these days. I was surprised to discovery that the old standby, Humbrol, is indeed alive and well with US headquarters in Washington State. https://www.humbrol.com/us-en/  I couldn't find any listing of retailers and I suspect there are few, given that so many have "gone over to the dark side" with acrylics. They are still selling it mail order via the internet in their iconic "tinlets" for $2.50 a can. They also make a full line of acrylic paints these days.

On 12/2/2019 at 9:10 PM, Dr PR said:

Many years ago while touring the Balclutha in San Francisco I learned of another type of ballast stones. Ships sometimes filled empty cargo space with mill stones - cylindrical stones with a hole along the center axis that were used for grinding grain. These could usually be sold in areas that were developing and had a growing population. If the stones hadn't sold and the ship was loading a more valuable cargo the stones could be dumped overboard to make room.

 

Apparently the bottom of San Francisco Bay is littered with mill stones!

 

 

I've heard of ships carrying grindstones as ballast to places where they might be sold, but I've never heard of jettisoned grindstones being recovered over the course of my forty-plus years of familiarity with maritime archaeology in the S.F. Bay Area. During the last of the Nineteenth and beginning of the Twentieth Centuries, the large "ocean carriers," mainly four-masted barks and ships such as Balclutha, primarily carried grain grown in the Central Valley of California to Europe and, finding cargoes wanting on the return leg from Europe to California, required balasting. They would carry cobblestones quarried in Europe, called "Belgian block," that were off-loaded at San Francisco and used to pave the streets of the City. Many are still in place, though often now covered in asphalt. They are pulled up when streets are rebuilt and were once resold as construction material. I once owned a home with a twelve foot high living room wall built of them. Today, the City realizes their value and has an ordinance requiring all cobblestones removed from the streets to be retained for reuse by the City itself for historic restorations and the like.

27 minutes ago, shipman said:

Bob, I have a few plastic model kits built up to 30 years ago. Apart from my catastrophic dropping of a few, they look as if they were built yesterday.

I'm sure that's true. Were they painted with acrylics 30 years ago? Even so, they may look fine today. Obviously, you've taken good care of them. It's a dicey business. Some do apparently last well for such periods of time. Others, not so much.  We don't have to wait 300 years to see how permanent styrene plastics are though. Plastic begins its process of "plastico-porosis" the minute it's made. It has a half-life that is relatively short and which can be radically accelerated by adverse environmental factors. It's decidedly "non-archival." Nobody expects it to last longer than what it does. (This degradation, however slow, is the only thing that has prevented mankind from becoming totally inundated in plastic garbage!)

I expect anyone who has held on to a model that had decals applied for any length of time will have noticed that the clear edges of the decals frequently begin to cloud up and discolor after a few years and after a few more years, will eventually "dry out" and start to crack, flake, and peel off.

Seriously, though, I think all modelers who put many hundreds, if not thousands of hours into building good models, should give careful thought to using the most long-lasting methods and materials. You never know. Maybe 300 years from now, your model may have survived and is then one of the very few models of its subject in existence, a true historic "museum quality" model. However long it does last, if anyone comes to own and enjoy it after you, they will certainly appreciate the fact that you did consider the permanence of the materials used. It also makes a huge difference in the monetary value of a model, should that be of any concern to the builder or the builder's heirs. 

I realize few of us will ever be good enough at the game to build a model that is worthy of being considered "museum quality," whatever that may be, but I think we all like to think we strive to do the best we can, or should. Every little bit brings our work closer to excellence.

I think you've sort of answered your own question. Otherwise, it depends on the "rope." Standing rigging is always going to be relatively tight. Running rigging is also generally belayed without slack, but, depending upon the application and circumstance, may be left slack and portrayed with a catenary, as may be appropriate. (These details should be easy to recognize if you understand how your prototype vessel sailed in real life.) For example, a leeward lazy jack set up on a model portrayed as under sail, will be slack, as would a running backstay under the same circumstances, although the running back might have been carried forward and lashed to an after shroud or the like to keep it from flogging around if no short tacking was anticipated. You should consider how you are portraying your model and run the rigging accordingly. Remember, too, that the rigging tension on the model accumulates as the tension of each item of rigging is added and, by the time the model is done, can represent a fair amount of energy built into the model. If you are rigging it too tightly, you'll know soon enough when things start popping loose all over the place or spars start snapping!

6 minutes ago, shipman said:

I agree, Bob. Ultimately, everything degrades. It's the properties of physics (entropy) I guess.

I think it's important to not loose sight of the fact that many of us enjoy the process of 'doing', hopefully to a level we find satisfying. As often happens, once we shed this mortal coil, the things we personally value now will be in tomorrows dumpster. It doesn't mean we can't enjoy what pleasure we can while we are here.

I was talking about ten, twenty, thirty years, not all eternity.   As they say, "Your mileage may vary." 

On 11/28/2019 at 1:48 PM, shipman said:

And I'm going to live forever?

Seriously though, I do understand and get your point. However, I have no pretensions that my Revel 'Cutty Sark' will ever be sitting in a museum any time soon.

I was a frequent visitor to the London Science Museum until they removed their excellent model ship collection. One of my favourite exhibits was Longridges famous HMS Victory. There couldn't have been a more dedicated modeler. I looked at it at different times over the years, but by the time it was removed it had developed various serious structural issues and was clearly pulling its self apart. Don't know what the environment was like in its case but you can bet your average UK house wouldn't be that stable.

You won't live forever, but your model could if the right materials were used to build it.

IIRC,, Longridge built that Victory in the late forties or early fifties. I'd sure like to see a conservator's report on the deterioration you describe. We could learn a lot about the permanence of the materials he used from such a study and/or the problems caused by the environment in which it was displayed. I expect Longridge was to some degree challenged in sourcing some materials in the post-war years when many shortages still existed in the UK.

On 11/28/2019 at 1:41 PM, druxey said:

I'm amazed that this stuff is still around. I heaved the remains of my then ageing and crazed Letraset (I was in graphic design back then) about 25 years ago!

The problem with Letraset and with "decals" is that neither last all that long in the grand scheme of things. 

11 hours ago, Dr PR said:

I have read several opinions about diluting acrylics with isopropanol (rubbing alcohol) or another alcohol solvent, or a water/alcohol mixture. But there does not seem to be a consensus about how to do this, so it remains conjecture in my opinion.

Some brands of acrylic paint are soluble in alcohol. One has to experiment. I've had only moderate success airbrushing when thinned with alcohol. They did not cover well and required repeated application. Alcohol speeds up the drying time a bit. The other shortcomings of acrylics remain.

11 hours ago, Dr PR said:

Artist oils dry very slowly - it takes weeks for an oil painting to dry enough to be handled. If you dilute them with a fast drying solvent you may get a dull finish. But I guess you could finish by applying a thin clear overcoat to give the finish you desire.

Adding Japan dryer to oil paint accellerates the drying time. Artist's oils are compounded for sale without dryers because picture-painting artists often like to rework their paintings, blending colors directly on the canvas over a period of time. Japan dryer should be available in any paint store. It's also sold in small bottles in art stores at a much higher price. Generally speaking, a glossy finish isn't desirable on a model. As noted, a clear gloss coating can always be applied if one so desires.

6 hours ago, Richmond said:

I would hazard a guess that the majority of plastic models are painted with acrylics nowadays and probably masked with Tamiya tape. There are many wonderful examples on here.

They don't pose any potential archival problems on plastic models. The acrylic coatings are likely to last longer than the plastic!  

9 hours ago, shipman said:

The American 'One Shot' paints which auto pinstripe and lettering artists use appear to be very similar; I don't think they are acrylic.

Correct. "One Shot" sign painting paints are an oil based enamel with a very high level of finely ground pigment, just what is wanted for models. They are glossy and require a flattener be added (or hand-rubbing) for modeling work. And, yes, they are expensive. Professional freehand sign painters in the US use nothing else. 

1 hour ago, KrisWood said:

The best I can figure is to use a micrometer to measure the distance of the curve from the centerline at each frame, then mark it on the wood in pencil and draw in the curve between the dots by hand.

Yes, but once you have points of the curve laid out at each "station" in the lines drawing (these are not necessarily the positions of the frames,) use a "batten" (a flexible piece of wood or metal strip) bent so it curves, contacting each point, to draw your curved line on the wood.

1 hour ago, Justin P. said:

 I wonder how useful/relevant some sort of written treatment on common materials (old and new) used in ship-modeling and advice for their long-term exhibition would be?   Being right up my ally, and having numerous analytical techniques at my disposal (I can simulate age and exposure to many hundreds of years in my lab) and the idea has certainly gotten my wheels spinning...      

No need to wonder! It's really important for so many reasons. One need only consider what models being built today might be left in two or three hundred years to understand that if one aspires to build a model of any quality, its permanence is an essential prerequisite to its value, historically and monetarily, both now and in the future. (The same goes for the research and documentation of its accuracy.) Ship modeling is like any other fine art. The overwhelming amount of it is pedestrian and fleeting, serving but a temporary purpose before being consigned to the scrap heap. For those whose purposes the inferior works serve, that's well and good, but if a modeler intends to connect with the generations of modelers who have gone before over hundreds of years, there is nothing for it but to do the most accurate research and to employ the longest lasting materials which ensure the longevity of their hard work.

Anyone who has done any serious historical research has been bedeviled by inaccuracies that find their way into the fabric of history and become part of the canon without further critical examination. The historical record is really like the children's "telephone game" in many respects. Despite the total lack of any certainly accurate information about many historically important vessels, modelers, and especially the kit manufacturers that satisfy the demands of the marketplace, continue to perpetuate models of vessels like Golden Hind, Half Moon, Mayflower, Columbus' ships, and so on. It seems if it has a name, somebody's going to be selling a model of it, regardless of whether anyone has any accurate idea of what it really looked like. One can only imagine the confusion that may create a few hundred years from now when a Mayflower is "discovered" in an attic and the owner claims "it has been in the family" since their ancestor stepped onto Plymouth Rock!

Modern technology is rarely intended to be long-lasting. Even in our own lifetimes, we see music recordings and moving pictures of great historical and artistic value which no longer exist at all anywhere, because they were recorded on media that was never intended to last. The same is quite likely true of many modern materials now customarily used in ship modeling. One of the biggest gaps in our knowledge of the archival qualities of modern ship modeling materials is found in the longevity of adhesives, modern polymer coatings, and synthetic fibers, many of which haven't been in existence long enough to have proven track records. (And certainly, their manufacturers' claims cannot be taken at face value!) Nevertheless, today's modelers embrace them with wild abandon. What happens to the output of some of our most technically accomplished modelers if the CA adhesives, the acrylic paints and poly-whatever sealers, and Dacron thread they've built with starts turning to brittle, crumbling dust a hundred and fifty years from now? Some will say, "Well, I'm not an internationally recognized professional modeler, so what do I care about something I'm only going to stick on my own mantle for my own pleasure?" They overlook the very real fact that in a couple of hundred years, which isn't so very long in the grand scheme of things, theirs could by chance happen to be one of the only models of the subject vessel that exists anywhere on the planet. In that case, will it then be a valuable historical artifact of "museum quality" of just another piece of old decorative junk in an antiques store?

We can't know the future of our modeling work, but we can do much better than it appears current trends might promise to ensure that they have a future. This fact was brought home to me recently in an extreme example. A client of mine was involved in litigation over the ownership of an old scrap of paper, little larger than a postcard. It was a fragment of a "cartoon" (preliminary drawing) attributed to Rafael. It turns out, paper was expensive in Rafael's day, so they'd sketch the design of a painting in charcoal on paper and, when done with it, paint over the sketch with white paint and use the paper again for the next sketch. Using modern technology, the Rafael sketch was discovered beneath the painted surface of the paper which also contained a less valuable sketch on top of it. No doubt, if Rafael had known his sketch would someday be appraised to be worth a quarter of a million dollars, he wouldn't have worried about saving a few ducats on sketching paper!

If those who pursue ship modeling as a hobby wish it to be given the artistic and historical respect it deserves (and yes, the monetary value, as well,) I submit we need to start taking the accuracy of our research and the permanence of our materials a lot more seriously that many now do. 

30 minutes ago, KrisWood said:

Before I read your comment, I attempted cutting out two halves of the keel to scarf together. After completely butchering my largest piece of basswood with a razor saw, a generic Dremel, and an X-acto knife, I read what you'd written and decided to give it a go at trying it in balsa while waiting until I can order larger pieces of basswood.

Don't waste your time with balsa. It is too soft and your keel is the "backbone" of the entire model. Balsa is for model airplanes, due to its light weight. It is not suitable for ship modeling. I could go on explaining the many reasons for this, but you're just going to have to trust me on this one.

35 minutes ago, KrisWood said:

Now I've got the keel cut out (chiseled with X-acto really) in profile, but the plans show it being curved on both sides when viewed from above. How is this curve achieved with hand tools? I can't find any way to simply glue the printed plan to the top of my keel without distorting the curve.

Pictures help a lot with questions like this one. It sounds like the keel is somewhat trapezoidal in cross-section, which would be expected. There are many ways to shape it. Lay out a centerline all along the length of the top and bottom of the piece. Then lay out the shape of the bottom, turn it over and lay out the shape of the top. Then shape it to the top and bottom outer lines. Of course, you will also have to lay out your rabet and carve that into the top edges of the keel. This should be shown on the plans. You should also give some thought to a building jig. These Nordic vessels, I believe, were built "planks first" on a few temporary molds and the frames and floors were installed after the planking had defined the vessel's shape. You will have to build on some sort of a jig or forms, or you will have nothing to hang your planks on.

41 minutes ago, KrisWood said:

Also, what's the best way to cut out the keel by hand? I read a few tutorials but the best I could figure out was the razor saw which just got stuck every time the back of the blade got into the cut. I've got a handheld coping saw that needs a blade so I'll be running down to the hardware store for that tomorrow to try it instead.

A jig saw could shape the larger dimension, and the rest of the keel could be developed by planing the sides thereafter. Obviously, you've discovered the limitations of a razor saw, which is generally useful only for crosscutting straight stock. A coping saw or the like is required for curved cuts.

I don't want to hurt your feelings, but in the interests of honesty, it's apparent from your questions that you lack the basic tool skills and knowledge of boat building to get anywhere at the rate you are going. These longships were very sophisticated in their design and execution. The plans you have, assuming you speak the language in which they are written, are not suitable for a beginner. They are not easily built hulls. There are many longboat kits commercially available. You should use the search engine in the forum to read all the build logs of them, read all the kit reviews of them, and decide which best suits your needs and skill level. There's nothing worse than biting off more that you can chew. Start with the "baby steps" and build upon what you learn. You'll master the skills quickly enough. It's not a subject that anyone at your skill level should attempt to scratch-build. Don't feel bad about that. Just accept that the learning curve is greater than you first imagined. There's no shame in that!

3 hours ago, KrisWood said:

The longest piece of basswood I could find in my neighborhood is a little over half the length of my keel, which would put the scarph joint right underneath the mast step (I think that’s the right term?) on the left side of page 48 of the plans in my first post. Would that weaken the entire keel?

 Thanks!

In theory, yes. In fact, most designed vessels specifications expressly prohibit any scarfs below the mast steps. That's not really critical in static models, though, but you won't want to include such a scarf if you were going to let it show in the finished model. Today's adhesives, properly  used, should create a scarf bond as strong as the  grown wood. That said, it appears the keel doesn't require any particularly large piece of wood. I'd certainly urge you to simply obtain a length of similar wood rather than going to the trouble of scarfing one.

As you mention this is your first time building a wooden ship model, and as it appears this isn't a kit with precut planks, I feel you should be keenly aware that the lapstrake planking, which is an essential characteristic of this type of vessel, makes planking the model an exacting task. This is particularly so because it is an open boat, so both sides of the planks will be visible. Finally, the shape of the hull and the run of the planking, especially at the ends, should be expected to be about the most difficult planking job anyone could imagine. You may want to start with an easier model to build and then move on to this one, which is one of the most challenging of all.

I think the point is far more easily understood when one grasps the distinction between "conservation" and "restoration."

Something is conserved to preserve what might be preserved for posterity, for future study of the original fabric of the artifact. Something is restored to new or like-new condition to preserve it's usefulness for its original purpose. For example, an original hand-written copy of the Declaration of Independence is an historic artifact because it is an original contemporary hand-written copy, even if it is so brittle and faded as to be nearly unreadable. Therefore, preserving the fabric of it must be the goal. Tracing over the original writing so it could be more easily readable would be an abomination. It's not about restoration so it looks like it did when it was first written, but about conservation to preserve the history of the artifact evident in its present condition. 

If this principle remains in dispute, I don't see much point in continuing to "flog the poodle."

8 hours ago, Y.T. said:

 

Beauty is in the eyes of beholder. 

1 hour ago, shipman said:

Good to hear everyone is happy with acrylics and I genuinely wish you continued success with them. I do agree, they are very user friendly and have many admirable properties. I don't wish to dissuade anyone from using them. Like everything else in life, it's all about being happy in what you do.

Any painter experienced with the use of traditional oil-based paints, recognizes the shortcomings of acrylics and their "water-based" ilk. Call them "user friendly" if you wish, but the term I find more appropriate is "dumbed-down." Even assuming an experienced painter masters their use, at the end of the day, regardless of how successful the effort, you're left with an acrylic coating. They keep making them better over the years, but they just don't compare. Regrettably, we can no longer obtain the quality scale oil-based paints like those once produced by Floquil and Humbrol and must now mix our own using traditional artists' oils.

7 hours ago, allanyed said:

Thanks!!  I do hope there are some photos or drawings to be found from wrecks of the late 17th century.  And the search goes on...… and on...… and on....😁

Allan

Try searching https://www.academia.edu/ for marine archaeological papers, surveys, and reports on wrecks of the late 17th century. If there's anything like what you are looking for, it's probably in there.

42 minutes ago, shipman said:

My experience with 'sharpie's' and permanent markers is simply, they aren't permanent over time.

Also, I'd have serious doubts about the long term permanence of ink jet printed decals and the carrier film.

A lot depends on the color and the brand. I've found that the Sanford "Sharpie" permanent black markers are indeed "permanent" and very black. I've had other color felt-tip markers fade very quickly.

6 hours ago, Hank said:

Habitat for Humanity Re-Store which I have both taken things and also bought some items - 2 cabinets for my small home shop in my garage (only for household work). I check them regularly for stuff I may need. My realtor is also a remodeler and I get tips from him on items for sale that might come in handy! On the elec. receptacle locations - I may have to consider your points of placement - I was going with them located just above the workbench height, but I do see your point about cords all over the bench, etc

Thanks for reminding me about the Habitat for Humanity Re-Store! We've got one nearby. I meant to check it out when I first heard about it and then forgot all about it!

I didn't mean to suggest you "throw the baby out with the bath water" on the electrical outlets. Put some on the wall above your benches, too! Putting them on the front of the bench just below the lip of the bench top as well will give you the flexibility you want. Bench top power tools plug into the wall outlets and your corded hand tools can plug below the bench top. The last thing you want is a Dremel tool cord plugged into the wall fetching up against the rigging of your model on the bench when you are focused on what you're doing with the tool and pull the cord just a little too far!

I think I've built five shops over the years. I've never been able to complete one, though. They are always a work in progress. My latest is 1,500 square feet, 30' X 50', with one "clean" office room in it. It used to be a commercial cabinet making shop on the property. It has 440 VAC three-phase commercial power running into it. I'm now framing another room in it for an office and library with a sink and fridge hook up so I don't have to walk back to the house to get a cup of coffee or a cold drink. It's rough in places and needs some upgrades, like a new barn door and upgraded LED lighting. All in good time, I suppose. Every guy needs his "cave." If you have any ideas on how to keep everybody else in the family from piling their junk on the workbenches and everywhere else there's a flat surface, please let me know. "I get no respect!"

Sounds like you have it well in hand, although that Peacock may end up chasing you out of there! I'd keep it in the house and save the shop space for shop work. If I had a case like that in my shop, it would only be a matter of time until I'd pick a two-by-four, carelessly turn with it, and put it through the glass!

I'll pass on a few thoughts which may have occurred to you already. 

Make friends with a local kitchen remodeler and have them save you some kitchen cabinets and counter bases. There's no better way to get shelves and bench tops with lots of nice storage and the drawers and cabinet doors keep the dust out of the storage areas.

Make provision for running plenty of electrical outlets (one every three or four feet - within arm's length of each other) to the front of your workbenches. Outlets just below the workbench are where you want them for using corded tools. People always seem to put them on the walls, but then you have cords all over your bench top working area. 

Be sure to run com cable out to the shop if you aren't on a wifi. It's really nice to have stereo and television and an internet hookup for a computer. 

Put all your stationary power tools on heavy duty lockable casters. That frees up huge amounts of space. They can live pushed together against the walls and only need to be rolled out to the center of the shop when needed.

Build overhead racks beneath the rafters to hold your lumber.

Scrounge a small wood stove. You can use it for burning scrap off-cuts and it will keep things warm and cozy in the winter. Importantly, solid wood fuel stoves dry things out very well. Dry is good. Warm is good. It keeps the rust away.

Have fun!

On 11/9/2019 at 10:02 AM, AON said:

found this

 

I've never heard of the "rolling shot" trick before, but it does make some sense. However, it would seem that something like a twelve pound shot rolling down the barrel outboard would carry enough momentum to drive the tampion out of the muzzle, no? How did they prevent that, I wonder? I suppose they could run the muzzle hard against the gunport lid, but that doesn't seem very shipshape. It's hard to imagine a "broadside" of rolling shot hammering the gunport lids on every roll in a seaway. Then there's the problem of barrel wear. Chipping the rust off of shot was a routine task. It ensured a more accurate shot and prevented the problem of cast shot becoming oversized with expanded rust on the surface. A shot rolling continuously in the barrel would seem to wear the barrel, making its bore larger, which would presumably reduce its range and accuracy. No?

32 minutes ago, Roger Pellett said:

Household Amonia fumes can be used to produce verdigris on copper.  Is it possible that your model became exposed to a cleaning product containing amonia?

 

Roger

I learn something new on this forum every day! Got to remember that one. Sometimes I want that patina without the wait.