ancre La Créole 1827 by archjofo - Scale 1/48 - French corvette

[deadbrotherbear]

Happy Christmas to you and yours, as well, Johann!

[Chuck]

I created a new topic for this as I feel bad about steering the topic in this build log.  We can discuss more details about my experiments with polyester thread here.

 

 

[archjofo]

Hello,

as mentioned earlier, polyester is not an option for the ropes of my French corvette.
That's why I kept coming up with information about the durability of silk on the internet, partly from scientific papers by conservators of museums.
Ultimately, I can conclude for me that no specific time can be made to the durability of silk, it depends on many factors (environment, location, light conditions, processing, etc.).
In any case, the silk rigging will outlive my existence for a long time.
The difference between ropes made of linen and silk ropes is clearly visible in the next two pictures.
The ropes made of silk therefore look smoother and cleaner. The rope made of linen is a little rough.

If I make the ropes of silk, I can choose between 180 colors, for example at Gütermann. The right brown for the standing good will already be there.

 

Edited December 29, 2018 by archjofo

[vossiewulf]

Not sure I follow  You're saying you're going to outlast any silk rigging, meaning it will come apart in your lifetime and you'll be faced with re-rigging the whole thing at some point. I really like the look of the silk also, but I doubt I like it enough to be willing to completely re-rig models in 15-20 years.

[archjofo]

@vossiewulf

Sorry, I made a translation error. I wanted to say that the rigging of silk will survive me.
I will correct the mistake in my post.

[Siggi52]

Hello Johann,

 

your ropes looking great, especially the silk ropes. I burned my linen ropes to eliminate the fine hairs. 

 

Should your Creole look afterwards also like this model? The captain must have been on vacation!

 

[archjofo]

Hello Siggi,
a nice model!
I have not decided yet what kind of material I will use.
Here's a first try for the shrouds. In this case, I used a linen rope. I'll do more experiments.

[albert]

Hi Johann your work is fantastic.

[archjofo]

I wish you all a happy new year!

[jose_b]

I wish you a Happy New Year to you, Johann, and everyone!

[cog]

A happy and fruitful New Year to you too, Johann

[CaptMorgan]

I've been admiring your work,  It is WAY above and beyond awesome.....    Just sayin....   😃

[archjofo]

First of all, many thanks for the greetings for the New Year and I hope that your interest in my report will continue in the New Year as well.
Steve, thank you very much for your nice comment.

Before I start with the shrouds, I still need a device for serving ropes.
First of all, I drew a plan to get the material and parts.

 

The first attempts with the rope serving machine were very successful.
In order to be able to control the tension on the thread better, I have to think of a supplement for the device.

 

 

 

[michael mott]

Very nice Johann, Does the carriage with the spool need to be moved by hand or does the threading pull it along as it winds? I solved this by using a slightly springy brass plate that put just enough tension on the spool but let it get pulled along. here is the link to the serving machine that I did, it went through a number of improvements  as I looked at Alex"s machine which is also great. I of course enjoy building my own tools as well. I really like the way you have supported the rope being served, and also beautiful Drawings.

I thought about using a lead screw to move the carriage similar to the leadscrew on a lathe, My eventual feeling was that the thread pitch on the leadscrew would need to be the same as the thread that was being wound on the rope. At that point i decided to keep it simple, by using the action of the serving thread to pull along the spool.

 

Regards Michael 

[wefalck]

My machine is still in the planning phase (I actually don't need one at the moment, but it is an interesting project), though I have accumulated most of the materials needed. The base will be 6 mm brown bakelite, which should look nice together with the steel and brass of the mechanism. I may stay manual only, as I won't have to do that long ropes.

I also thought about driving the serving thread spool along with a leadscrew, but then came to the conclusion that one would need a hell of a gear ratio to make this useful, plus change-wheel for different thread thicknesses. Probably not worth the effort.

One point that concerned me was the pull needed to really wind the thread tightly around the rope. This would seriously deflect the rope. So, I will shape a kind of follower or travelling steady in which the rope runs in a channel. In the front a notch will be cut out of the channel in order to be able to feed in the serving thread. It will run over a flat surface so that one can control with the index finger the resistance.

[Dziadeczek]

You have to explore the possibilities that are offered by people who are into archery. Namely, they use the so called "bow string server" which travels along the served line while serving it at the same time. Please google "bow string server" and select "images" and you'll see many potential solutions.

They typically serve the line for a bow, which is a bit thicker then most of your miniature ropes for shipmodeling, so, if you want to obtain a commercially available gadget, you have to choose a possibly smaller one typically available for archery. Or, make one by yourself from parts which are typically available around your house/workshop. The solutions are endless...

 

The beauty of such a server is that it requires no, or very little attention, while serving your lines. It hungs suspended from your rope and its weight and tension controlled by the screw (next to a spool with thread), controls how tight is your serving. (Initial setup is therefore required) .

Once you start your serving process, you can literally make yourself a cup of coffee and drink it while observing the action of serving (provided that your serving machine is mechanically powered (electric DC motor) and you are serving a long enough piece of a rope).  The server, while serving your rope, WILL  AUTOMATICALLY MOVE ALONG THE ROPE without your intervention whatsoever.  You can even install a device that will shut off the power to the motor when the serving reaches the end of the rope, so that you don't have to watch the process.

 

Many years ago I made a simple device for serving - see attachments. It works perfectly for most of my ropes. Bigger (thicker) ropes will require a bigger server, naturally.

Edited January 8, 2019 by Dziadeczek

[wefalck]

I think I have seen this before somewhere 👍 What would be smallest diameter of rope it would work on safely ? Personally I am thinking of ropes below 0.5 mm and would not be so sure that the respective serving thread could exert enough sideway force to move the device forward. Otherwise, the device I had in mind for my ropewalk would look quite similar to the above, except that it would register into a strengthing rod between the two frames of the machine to provide a guide.

[archjofo]

@ Michael mott

Hi Michael,
yes, the carriage with the spool has to be moved by hand. But that works pretty well.
Nevertheless, I still try to optimize.
I already admired your machine. This is a very nice device.

@wefalck

Hi Eberhard,
your considerations for a rope serving machine are also very interesting.
The control of the thread tension with the index finger is very promising.

@Dziadeczek

Hi Dziadeczek,
that is of course a very interesting hint.

I´ll try that, if the serving will be tight.
 

Edited January 12, 2019 by archjofo

[archjofo]

Inspired by previous discussion on serving of ropes, especially with regard to an automated thread guide, I tried to implement them according to the examples from the Internet for my rope serving machine.

Actually, a simple device that receives the propulsion through the juxtaposition of the thread, and thus moves on independently. Very important here is the adjustment of the tension for the thread, which is pulled by the rotating rope from the spool.
A short video sequence shows this process very impressively:
LINK

A very special thanks to @Dziadeczek for your suggestion.

 

The serving of the ropes is now, more or less, automatic and, above all, very even.

Up soon …

Edited January 12, 2019 by archjofo

[Jorge Diaz O]

Everything seems very simple when you build sir, my respects, a great job

[archjofo]

@ Jorge Diaz O
Thank you for your interest and your nice comment.
But with assistance here in the forum that was not too difficult.
Therefore, thanks also to the others, who helped with suggestions.

In addition to a thicker dew Ø 1.6 mm, I have also served a thinner dew Ø 0.9 mm.

Now the rigging can begin ... oh, I have to clarify the questions about the material and the coloring before.

[wefalck]

I am curious to see what would be the thinnest rope you can serve - for my purposes I would need to go below 0.5 mm diameter to be in scale. Then also finding a serving yarn will become a problem.

[cog]

Isn't silk a possible candidate, WEFalk

[wefalck]

What silk, that's the question. One has to be able to get the right one, spun in the right way and is has to be less than 10 den. And then - see the earlier discussion on silk - I am still a bit hesitant about silk, though that silk will be painted as per prototype.

 

Talking about silk and deviating a bit from Johann's thread, I also experimented with silk covered copper wire, as used in the old-time electrics. It looks good, but making splices look prototype-like is difficult, because the rope would have been spliced first and then served all over, while the wire is already served.

[druxey]

There is a difference in appearance, depending in which direction the rope is served. Serve in the opposite direction to the lay of the rope. This is particularly noticeable in larger rope sizes. The other solution is to worm larger rope before serving to give a more even surface (just like in full size practice).

[wefalck]

I gather worming, parcelling and serving would be a bit over the top, even at 1:48 scale.

 

Intuitively, I would serve with the lay, as against the lay has the tendency to open the rope. Not sure what the full-size practice is, but once wormed and parcelled, it would not matter to much anymore.

[archjofo]

On 1/13/2019 at 11:35 AM, wefalck said:

I am curious to see what would be the thinnest rope you can serve - for my purposes I would need to go below 0.5 mm diameter to be in scale. Then also finding a serving yarn will become a problem.

Hello,

today I tried serving with a thin rope. This rope has a diameter of 0.45 mm. It works just fine with the device. But the macro shot shows that the yarn is too thick in relation to the rope.
For my model in 1:48 scale this is certainly not relevant. However, it might be interesting for smaller scales.

@druxey

 

The worming of ropes probably requires too much effort on a scale of 1:48.
Has anyone practiced that?

 

[Dziadeczek]

I once tried to do it by hand, leading the thread into the 'grooves' of a rope stretched on a serving machine (with mixed results). Pain in the ...

Maybe someone has a more mechanical and better method?

Edited January 16, 2019 by Dziadeczek

[druxey]

Yes, but it's a bit fussy. A little dilute white glue helps retain the worm in the groove as one moves along the line. One only really needs to do this on large lines.

[shipmodel]

Hi Johann - 

 

Yes, I have wormed mainstays and forestays down to a scale of 1/96 (1/8" = 1').  I used a hand-cranked serving machine of my own design (see photos for the serving setup.  I don't have a photo of the worming process, but it is essentially similar).  The trick is to start all three worming lines at the same time, hold them in between thumb and fingers of one hand, which makes the tensions equal, and then to crank very slowly.  It lays up pretty easily.  I prefer the hand-cranked machine because I can stop and reverse easily if anything gets off-line.  Securing them with dilute white glue, as Druxey suggests, is the final step.

Best of success.

 

Dan