Stitching sails with sewing machine

[Jorge Hedges]

Hello All!

 

Hope you are all doing well.

 

Quick question...  please see image below.  Pretty sure I will get the hang of stitching straight lines soon, but for the life of me, I can't get one thing right.

 

I am unable to get a line going on the sali borders, like a hem-type stitch.

 

My question is, should I set/pin the sail on a tear-away fabric of a bigger size, so I can properly run the sail and stitch (pass) thru the machine?  NOt sure if I am explaining myself...  I am pretty sure that the issue is that the cut sail is too small, and I cannot hol properly for the initital stich pass.

 

Any good links/tutorials out there?  BTW, the sewing machine is a Singer 3337 "Simple" stitch...   yeah, right...  simple...

 

Have a great weekend!

 

 

[druxey]

Might I suggest that, for a scale model, stitching is not the best or easiest option? However, fine the stitching, it will always be way over scale. Also, as you've discovered, stitching a straight line is very tricky. Let me suggest another possibility:

 

First, gently stretch the uncut material over plastic wrap. Give it a dilute coat of acrylic matt medium to slightly stiffen it. Also, when you cut the material, it will not fray. When it is dry, mark out the shape of the sail in pencil, then another set of lines outside this to give the 'hem'. Draw pencil lines the width of the sail cloths apart or, if this is at a large scale, a double set of lines. Using a straightedge this should be easy!

 

Cut the sail out to the outer lines. Turn over the edges and either glue them down with white glue or matt medium. Detail the sail to taste and you are done.

[AON]

matte medium

[Roger Pellett]

Use silkspan or even rice paper stiffened/colored with acrylic model paint.  Draw panels as Druxey says.  Glue on bolt ropes and reinforcing panels with white or yellow wood glue.

Edited December 4, 2020 by Roger Pellett

[allanyed]

Jorge,

This is easy for me to say, but maybe hard to do, but consider throwing out the cloth sails and read on line or in books the best ways to make sails.  Silkspan or silk cloth used on model airplanes are great substitutes.   Making Sails for Ship Models from Silkspan, Parts 1 & 2 - YouTube is a good video on how to do this and  Sail Making Supplement booklet by David Antscherl from Seawatch Books is a great tutorial on making sails.   

Allan

Edited December 5, 2020 by allanyed

[Mirabell61]

Hi Jorge,

a few years ago I also stood before the task of stitching/sewing sails for my models

When using my wifes sewing machine for this and after some trials I came up with the following results :

Nils

 

How to sew sails on your wifes sewing machine

[amateur]

Hi Nils,

 

is it just me, or does the link not function?

 

Jan

[Mirabell61]

Hi Jan,

yes sorry the link unfortunately does`t funtion. Please put the text of the link (as shown) into the search window located underneath the logging-in line..,

that will do it....

 

Nils

[amateur]

 

[wefalck]

I am also belonging to the no-sewing party, as any sewing would be grossly over scale on anything, but pond-sailing models.

 

However, if you insist on sewing (for whatever reason), there is a simple trick to make life easier: draw the outline of the sail onto the fabric and then glue the fabric down onto some tissue-paper (of the kind used in the old days to make carbon copies) outside the sail area, but close to it. Both, the paper and the fabric have to be on a flat surface for the purpose. This helps to prevent the fabric from stretching and being pulled out of shape, when running it through the sewing machine. The paper has to be below, of course, so it, rather than the fabric is grabbed by the transporters of the sewing machine.

[Gregory]

FWIW, while I agree for the most part with the no-sewing camp, similar to what Wefalck is suggesting; with my Mary,  I printed out my sail plans on thin paper , over-layed it on my cloth, and just started sewing.

 

While it leaves a lot to be desired in the accuracy department, I felt like the result was satisfactory for a mantlepiece..

 

[Bob Cleek]

As said, it's a matter of scale. You can get away with it, barely, at 3/4" to the foot, as below, if you use very fine thread and the closest stitch setting. but corners hand stitched with the same thread produces a bit cruder results and bolt roping is a real challenge. On this model, I didn't sew the panels together, but rather simply stitched through the single sheet of fine cloth. There's no seam overlap on the panels, but the line of stitching does produce an impression of reality.

 

I didn't have any better close-ups of machine-sewn sails, but these shots of a three-quarters inch scale catboat give some idea of as much as one might expect of a home sewing machine. Below that, I wouldn't recommend cloth sails at all. (The copper fittings were left to develop a natural "penny brown" patina on their own, thereby simulating bronze. The photos were taken before that process had taken place.)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 5, 2020 by Bob Cleek

[bolin]

I would suggest making the sail cloth stiffer before putting it into the sewing machine. I have used matte spray varnish, and then ironed the cloth to get it flat.

 

For the hems along the sides I have folded them and then used glue to hold them down. Pins in these small dimensions will make the cloth warp and a straight line is very hard to get. I would also suggest giving up un the sewing machine and hand stitch the hems. You have much better control of what you are doing then. Especially when putting a line along the side of the sail, then hand stitching is the only way to go.

[allanyed]

I am in agreement with many of the comments above regarding sewn sails being grossly out of scale.   Assuming on a full size sail the stitches are about 1/8" apart, perhaps more, perhaps less,  at 1:48 they would have to be a few thousandths of an inch apart.    I don't think this is possible with any sewing machine.  Sorry to be a naysayer, but sewn sails really stand out and not in a good way.   Just my own personal thoughts.  

Allan

[Roger Pellett]

In most cases the cloth is also way over scale

[Jorge Hedges]

Thank you all for your feedback.

 

Got some tear-away fabric, and glued the sail cloth on it with white (pva) glue, and have it drying nicely on a flat surface...  will keep you posted with the results after sewing.

 

Thanks again,

 

Jorge

 

 

[allanyed]

Jorege,

Be careful with white glue as it is water soluble.   If this was only a test, I suggest you try using matte medium.  It will not dissolve if wet with water and dries clear, plus is less viscous than white glue so there is no worry of bumps and spots that may stand out. 

 

 Sewing will be totally out of scale and not look realistic.  At our scale you would be hard pressed to see a  sewn line if it were to scale, which is not possible. Remember that there are seams for each panel and the edge of the sail prior to putting on the boltrope, not just a sewing line. The first photo below is one of several  posted in the Boothbay 65 build log last week with additional explanations on sail making.   In place of sewing,  consider using a marker pen such as Liquitex which comes in many shades.  I used a 2mm pen but if your lines need to be narrower, the tip can be cut smaller with a scalpel blade before charging the pen the first time.   I also happened to give a thinned coat of titanium white artist acrylic after the seams were drawn to make them more subtle.  Examples of before and after panel or edge lines are in the second photo below.  David Antscherl recommends making seams, which should be about 2" wide (real world),  with thinned paint to match closely to the sail cloth using a bow pen.  

 

Allan

[Jorge Hedges]

17 hours ago, allanyed said:

Jorege,

Be careful with white glue as it is water soluble.   If this was only a test, I suggest you try using matte medium.  It will not dissolve if wet with water and dries clear, plus is less viscous than white glue so there is no worry of bumps and spots that may stand out. 

 

 Sewing will be totally out of scale and not look realistic.  At our scale you would be hard pressed to see a  sewn line if it were to scale, which is not possible. Remember that there are seams for each panel and the edge of the sail prior to putting on the boltrope, not just a sewing line. The first photo below is one of several  posted in the Boothbay 65 build log last week with additional explanations on sail making.   In place of sewing,  consider using a marker pen such as Liquitex which comes in many shades.  I used a 2mm pen but if your lines need to be narrower, the tip can be cut smaller with a scalpel blade before charging the pen the first time.   I also happened to give a thinned coat of titanium white artist acrylic after the seams were drawn to make them more subtle.  Examples of before and after panel or edge lines are in the second photo below.  David Antscherl recommends making seams, which should be about 2" wide (real world),  with thinned paint to match closely to the sail cloth using a bow pen.  

 

Allan

 

 

Hello Allan!

 

Is that a frame you prepared to maintain the cloth taut while the acrylic medium dries?

 

Thanks for your feedback!

 

Jorge

[allanyed]

Jorge,

Yes there is a frame and a matching plug that fits inside the frame.  First I took the dry silkspan and cut it to fit just inside the outer edge of the frame. While it is laying on the frame and plug I wetted the silkspan with a water (brush or spray bottle works fine)   Then I pulled the short edge on one side so there were no big wrinkles and taped it to the frame.  Then I did an  adjacent side, again pulling the wet material a little bit  to get out big wrinkles and taping it to the frame.  Then did the same with the remaining two sides.  After it is taped I picked the frame with the material up to get it off the plug.   I set it on blocks to dry as the sail material sags a bit.   Once it is dry, it shrinks and is very tight.  There is no need to try to pull it too tight while wet as it will tighten up on its own.  Once it was dry I painted it. It will sag again at this point. This can be done carefully without the frame going back on the plug or with the plug in.  If with the plug in, be sure to carefully remove the frame and painted material as soon as the paint is on so it does not dry to the plug.  The plug will have paint on it if inserted during the painting, but I found this was not a problem once removed and left to dry while the frame with painted  material were drying.  Once the paint is dry, the material will be tight again.  I then reinserted the frame on to the plug for the next steps of drawing the sails, doing the seams, etc.  You can find a lot more details in David Antscherl's booklet on sail making which is available at SeaWatch books for $7.   Hope this helps.  

Allan

[Jorge Hedges]

On 12/9/2020 at 9:12 AM, allanyed said:

Jorge,

Yes there is a frame and a matching plug that fits inside the frame.  First I took the dry silkspan and cut it to fit just inside the outer edge of the frame. While it is laying on the frame and plug I wetted the silkspan with a water (brush or spray bottle works fine)   Then I pulled the short edge on one side so there were no big wrinkles and taped it to the frame.  Then I did an  adjacent side, again pulling the wet material a little bit  to get out big wrinkles and taping it to the frame.  Then did the same with the remaining two sides.  After it is taped I picked the frame with the material up to get it off the plug.   I set it on blocks to dry as the sail material sags a bit.   Once it is dry, it shrinks and is very tight.  There is no need to try to pull it too tight while wet as it will tighten up on its own.  Once it was dry I painted it. It will sag again at this point. This can be done carefully without the frame going back on the plug or with the plug in.  If with the plug in, be sure to carefully remove the frame and painted material as soon as the paint is on so it does not dry to the plug.  The plug will have paint on it if inserted during the painting, but I found this was not a problem once removed and left to dry while the frame with painted  material were drying.  Once the paint is dry, the material will be tight again.  I then reinserted the frame on to the plug for the next steps of drawing the sails, doing the seams, etc.  You can find a lot more details in David Antscherl's booklet on sail making which is available at SeaWatch books for $7.   Hope this helps.  

Allan

 

 

Thanks, Allan!

[RdK]

Hi!

 

Thanks Nils for the nice tutorial!

 

While I also agree that stitches are always way out of scale, sometimes it adds to the charm of the model. I wanted stitched sails on my Mayflower, scale 1:100, which seems ridiculous, but I am very pleased with the result.

 

However, the catch is that I stitched it all by hand... 😅

 

-Radek

[Jorge Hedges]

17 hours ago, RdK said:

Hi!

 

Thanks Nils for the nice tutorial!

 

While I also agree that stitches are always way out of scale, sometimes it adds to the charm of the model. I wanted stitched sails on my Mayflower, scale 1:100, which seems ridiculous, but I am very pleased with the result.

 

However, the catch is that I stitched it all by hand... 😅

 

-Radek

 

 

It can be always looked as a showcase of techniques....!

[Jorge Hedges]

Success!  Played around with top thread tension, and fianlly got the expected results.  A little adjustment, and we should be done.

 

 Top thread is the beige colored, bottom is the white on the bobbin.  I will use the smallest stitch for this particular build, and the thread color will be the camel color.

 

Left the sail cloth material drying on a tear-away fabric with white pva glue so I have a better material feed through the machine.

 

Thanks for all you replies!

 

Regards,

 

Jorge

 

 

[Jorge Hedges]

Well, first formal sail test run performed.

 

Used a Singer "Simple" Sew 3327 in the smallest stitch setting, and a cotton cloth, sort of creamish colored (definitely not white) in order to simulate the aging better when "tinted" with coffee or tea.

 

Used a tear-away fabric with pva (white) glue, placed the sail cloth, and "squeegeed" (sic?) the glue...  set aside for drying, and had a nice, flat surface semisolid but flexible material, and great backing for the machine.

 

Gave it the required pases, and the machine performed flawlessly... I was the cuplprit, in the event you see a couple of misalignements.

 

After the sewing, I cut the corner reinforcements and glued them; when dry, will sew once again.

 

Before cutting, I will apply a anti-fraying solution in the sail borders, and remove the tear away, and after that, cut the fabric right next to the stitch...  and see what other detailing I can apply, other than the red cross in the main sail.

 

Pics follows...  critiques/suggestions welcome.  These were early am flash pics...  will take better ones.  I know it is not the most correct form of build, but happy with the looks, and "learned" a new trade... and hope to improve with practice.

 

Thanks for all of your support!

Edited December 18, 2020 by Jorge Hedges
'cause I can's spell!!!

[Jorge Hedges]

Hello All! 
 

After much trial and error, first sail build completed!

 

See pics below...  feel free to critique.

 

Already removed the ter-away fabric, and looks nice enough...  can’t complain much for this first one.

 

now, as soon as it dries, will apply the no-fray liquid, and basically Don, and ready for sewing to the spar.

 

question, though...  what type of paint do you use to paint crosses on the sails? 
 

again, thank you all for your support and comments!

[Jorge Hedges]

Hello All!

 

All sails stitched, and 1st sail completed with bolt rope, if I recall the term correctly.

 

Pics below...  please feel free to comment/critique...  suggestions always welcome.

 

 

[WalrusGuy]

On 12/4/2020 at 8:02 AM, druxey said:

Might I suggest that, for a scale model, stitching is not the best or easiest option? However, fine the stitching, it will always be way over scale. Also, as you've discovered, stitching a straight line is very tricky. Let me suggest another possibility:

 

First, gently stretch the uncut material over plastic wrap. Give it a dilute coat of acrylic matt medium to slightly stiffen it. Also, when you cut the material, it will not fray. When it is dry, mark out the shape of the sail in pencil, then another set of lines outside this to give the 'hem'. Draw pencil lines the width of the sail cloths apart or, if this is at a large scale, a double set of lines. Using a straightedge this should be easy!

 

Cut the sail out to the outer lines. Turn over the edges and either glue them down with white glue or matt medium. Detail the sail to taste and you are done.

I did not want to create another topic, so will ask here.

 

What is acrylic matt medium diluted with? Is it just water? 

[druxey]

Yes, water is used to dilute acrylic paints, mediums and varnishes.

[WalrusGuy]

4 minutes ago, druxey said:

Yes, water is used to dilute acrylic paints, mediums and varnishes.

Thank you Druxey! 

[tedrobinson2000]

Just wanted to throw my two cents worth in here on this topic. I'm making Caldercraft's Victory in 1:72 scale, and along the way decided to put sails on her.  Caldercraft did not anticipate sails, so many of the fittings and belaying points were omitted from the kit. Not sure yet if putting sails was the right decision. Nonetheless, I had made earlier models with sails that had sewn seams in a slightly contrasting color to the sail material, and was unhappy with  the results as the seams stood out too much - were too apparent. At almost any scale, the actual sewing of the seams would be all but invisible; the overlap of the adjacent sail cloths would be somewhat visible when backlit. What I was looking for was an effect where the seams would only be a hint, not too obvious, and the sails not so thick that I couldn't form them to some extent to indicate that they were drawing.

 

I wanted a fabric that was thin, somewhat translucent but not transparent.  After many iterations, I settled on "lawn" cloth as the base material. "Lawn" is a corruption of "Laon", which is the French city known for this particular weave. As it comes, it is a little too transparent, so I used a 50/50 dilution of Elmer's white glue to close up the pores a little and make it stiff enough to handle easily.  It was then ironed flat and sliced up into long strips to emulate the sail cloth width used in the 18th century, which was usually 2 feet wide.  At 1:72, this comes out at a little less that 3/8" inch wide.  I then glued them together with Elmer's  with about a 1mm (.030") overlap, making a mat of suitable size from which to cut the sail.  I printed out a pattern of suitably spaced lines using Excel, which was used with an overlay of wax paper on which to assemble the sail. An appropriately sized boltrope was then glued with white glue around the periphery, with served and marled cringles at the corners.  Cringles along the leech or foot were added later and glued on with a dab of CA. The result is a fairly stiff, but capable of being formed after dampening, sail where the seams are represented by the overlap.  It's not perfect, but to my eye much better that sewn seams. There are many details in the construction that I won't add here, but if there is interest, I can post a tutorial at another time.

 

Here are a couple of pix.