ancre Le Rochefort by No Idea - 1/24th Scale - First POF Build

[No Idea]

Hi Tony I’ve not actually used this line at all during my construction so far. I have always rightly or wrongly assumed that it is the ships waterline.  If you drop Gerard a message who is on this forum I’m sure that he will be able to answer your question. I will have an update on my build pretty soon too.  Mark 

[No Idea]

Hi All

 

Well after a fantastic holiday and a bit of a break I've re-started work on Le Rochefort.  

 

Firstly I marked out the whales using a height gauge and then cut the timbers which are quite big.  The whale timbers are 10.70mm x 3.30mm so I knew that they would be a bit of a challenge to bend around the bow.  The whale is made up of 3 planks which are joined by a scarf joint which I made using the mill as I did with the deck clamp.

 

I have also started on the strake below the whale which is slightly smaller at 10.00mm x 3.30mm.  This strake only has butt joints where the planks meet which makes it a little easier too.  I've also started the taper up to the stem to try and avoid too much plank crowding later on in the build.

 

My next job is to make the very difficult carved plank that wraps around the stern to the rabbet on the wing transom.  I think I've got some idea on how to make this part but I also think its going to take me several attempts to get them right.  I'll keep you updated and here's a few pictures below of where I'm at now.

 

Cheers Mark

[Waldemar]

 

What a finely clean work! And sorry for being late. I am dreaming that my model would be built in such an attractive way and from the wood similar in appearance to your choice. "My" modellers suggest to use oak! Ghhrrffgth!   🙂

 

 

 

[Tonphil1960]

Looking great Mark. Yea I don't know what that line is for but I  found that yes it needs to be moved up on certain drawings.  As you said though its not critical. I'm seriously thinking of going up to 1/24 also for ease of handling the parts and ease of working inside the hull etc. The down side is more material and more work to cut the heavier lumber.  Need to get the Byrnes or Micro mark 4' saw asap

[druxey]

Tonphil: If you can afford it, get the Byrnes saw. There is no comparison, particularly in power for cutting heavier stock.

[No Idea]

1 hour ago, druxey said:

Tonphil: If you can afford it, get the Byrnes saw. There is no comparison, particularly in power for cutting heavier stock.

Definitely - I use my Byrnes saw every day I'm working on this model for one thing or another.  Best tool that I own and it flies through some of the thicker sections which on this model at 1/24 are sometimes 13mm thick.  It just gives you that repetitive accuracy that helps to combat accumulative error.

[No Idea]

I've been having a go at making this plank and I am getting somewhere with it - I made up a couple of templates off of the drawings to get the correct shape of the plank.  Its shape transitions which makes it slightly more awkward and I thought the best place to start would be to cut the outside angles.

 

I guesstimated these using a slide bevel to be 37 degrees and 12 degrees.  Anyway the result was attempt number one which doesn't fit anywhere near accurately enough but it has given me the correct outside angles which are 28 degrees and 7 degrees.

 

I'll try another one tomorrow using my new angles 🙂  I think I'll get it right on attempt 4 or 5!!  The nice thing is I know I'm on the right lines 👍

 

And I've just discovered how to insert pictures into posts - thats todays win for me 😜 - cheers Mark

 

[No Idea]

As they say - if at first you don't succeed 👍

 

Take two - I marked out both port and starboard sides this time as I was feeling a bit more confident.  I also started by using the more accurate angles that I learnt from my first attempt.

 

 

I also found it a lot easier to make them if I cut them to near enough their final size.  Here's a comparison for my first go against the second attempt.  Having less material to remove and a smaller contact area made the job a bit easier to see.

 

 

 

And now both sides are on!!  When you look at the results it doesn't actually look like much of a job but I bet there's about 6 hours of gentle sanding to get these to fit.

 

 

 

 

They are a bit rough at the moment as I need to fit the plank below to get the final shape.  Another job completed

 

Cheers Mark 

[Waldemar]

 

It was only relatively recently I learned that just such elements, in true scale, and both at the bow and stern (especially the wales and planking in the 'difficult' places), were cut from compass timber rather than bent to shape. Anyway, perfect job.

 

 

[druxey]

Well done! Those 'planks' and the ekeing rails are the toughest timbers to form in a ship.

[No Idea]

23 minutes ago, druxey said:

Well done! Those 'planks' and the ekeing rails are the toughest timbers to form in a ship.

Cheers druxey - I think they should be named the patience planks.  It’s so easy to mess them up when you’re cutting free hand but when they fit - that’s a whiskey moment 🥃

[druxey]

Indeed. Cheers!

[Tonphil1960]

On 8/20/2022 at 8:33 AM, No Idea said:

Definitely - I use my Byrnes saw every day I'm working on this model for one thing or another.  Best tool that I own and it flies through some of the thicker sections which on this model at 1/24 are sometimes 13mm thick.  It just gives you that repetitive accuracy that helps to combat accumulative error.

Thanks , I doubt I can spend that much $$. The Micro Mark is a clone of the larger Proxxon so I think, hope  it'll do the job.  I have the smaller Proxxon and its pretty poor. I managed to struggle through my section build but the time wasted just trying to cut material is huge ! 

[mtaylor]

15 hours ago, Tonphil1960 said:

Thanks , I doubt I can spend that much $$. The Micro Mark is a clone of the larger Proxxon so I think, hope  it'll do the job.  I have the smaller Proxxon and its pretty poor. I managed to struggle through my section build but the time wasted just trying to cut material is huge ! 

I too have the MM Proxxon Clone saw, probably for 10 years now or so.  I've found that it pretty much does what I want but it has limitations on wood sizes.  Thickness being one of the limitations but proper choice of blade and feed speed it can be done.

I highly recommend the PDF in the first post of this topic:  https://modelshipworld.com/topic/23843-byrnes-saw-reference-also-good-for-other-desktop-hobby-saws/

 

 

There's one part in there on blade sizes (tooth count) and wood thickness which would be most helpful.

 

 

[No Idea]

Just a small update

 

The last plank is now in so the strake below the whale is complete.  I've also placed the iron nails and tree nails in each strake too.

 

The iron nails should be 0.75mm to be at exact scale but I downsized them to 0.7mm as this was the only size carbon rod that I could get.  I did try a test piece using the 0.8mm rod that I already had but they looked way too big.

 

The tree nails are 0.9mm and were made using vaddoc's technique utilising a needle and drill press - although I used a mill.  The reason that the carbon looks a bit battered is because it is.  I like to use a small hammer to make sure that they are correctly home.

The results are ok - The nails look blacker than they will as the sanding makes them shiny.  Once the matt shellack is applied the nails will go dull and the wood a darker shade.  The tree nails just blend in really well and once again the shellack will make them just slightly more visible.

 

So now the hull is much stronger I can proceed with cutting the frames away on the port side to make the interior visible.  Its not something that I'm looking forward too but its got to be done.  I'm also going to run another strake on the port side which will just frame the cut outs.  I think that this addition will look nice!

 

Mark

[Tonphil1960]

Looks great Mark. What's the reason for the two different nails. some black some white !  How long is she in 1/24 ? 

 

[No Idea]

14 minutes ago, Tonphil1960 said:

Looks great Mark. What's the reason for the two different nails. some black some white !  How long is she in 1/24 ? 

 

The French used both iron nails and tree nails in their ship construction hence the iron nails are dark and the tree nails just blend in.  I believe that English ships only used tree nails in their construction. 
 

At 1/24 scale this ship is roughly 900mm long 👍

[allanyed]

On 8/29/2022 at 4:06 AM, No Idea said:

0.7mm as this was the only size carbon rod that I could get

Congrats on a great build!!!   Do you know if the carbon rod is epoxy reinforced carbon or plastic composite type or some other?

Seeing your use of this material was new for me so I looked for it on-line and found there is more than one type, thus my question.

Thank you

Allan

[No Idea]

33 minutes ago, allanyed said:

Congrats on a great build!!!   Do you know if the carbon rod is epoxy reinforced carbon or plastic composite type or some other?

Seeing your use of this material was new for me so I looked for it on-line and found there is more than one type, thus my question.

Thank you

Allan

Hi Allan and thanks 👍

 

I actually didn’t know there was more than one type but I’ve looked and I am using epoxy reinforced rods.  They are very flexible and the fly boys use them apparently. However when you use short lengths it does become quite brittle but it sands just as easy as wood   

[Tonphil1960]

On 9/1/2022 at 7:06 AM, No Idea said:

The French used both iron nails and tree nails in their ship construction hence the iron nails are dark and the tree nails just blend in.  I believe that English ships only used tree nails in their construction. 
 

At 1/24 scale this ship is roughly 900mm long 👍

Ok yes, big, very impressive.  You're doing clean beautiful work. Kudos 

[No Idea]

Hi all - Some more done on Le Rochefort and thanks for all of the nice comments and likes.

 

I fitted the next plank down on the port side to frame the cut outs.  It was a bit tricky getting it around the stern as this plank is still 3mm x 10mm and its a very tight bend.  It also has to fit into the rabbet but I'm really pleased the way its turned out.

 

 

The bow was a lot easier to fit and I also placed the iron and wood nails as before

 

 

Next I marked out the cut outs on the port side - Don't laugh but I've been putting cutting them out for nearly two weeks as I just couldn't do it!!  Anyway I've done it now so no going back.  The reason for the small opening at the bow is because there is a small deck on the inside and the beams need somewhere to sit on the frames.

 

 

 

So the next job is to finish the ceiling which is going to take me a while as I need to plan it out first.  As soon as I have something to post I'll get it on here.

 

Cheers Mark

[VTHokiEE]

I very much enjoy all of your updates; it’s really impressive work. Someday I aim to do a scratch POF and the quality of your work is definitely a goal of mine to aim at.

[druxey]

The cut-outs are both bravely and well done, Mark! I well can imagine your hesitance.

[Bitao]

With enough patience, courage and care, the rest is a matter of time。

[No Idea]

Hi All

 

Well I'm well and truly stuck on this build at the moment.  I think all builders have a particular part of a build that they find difficult and mine is definitely the ceiling planking.

 

I'm trying to make the transition from the side planking to the planks that run up the transom.  The bend is so tight I'm finding it difficult to find a solution.  So far I've tried soaking planks and then loads of heat but no matter what the plank ended up splitting.

 

I've tried spiling before soaking the plank to reduce the amount of bending and again the plank ended up splitting.  I think I've spent a good couple of weeks on this now and I'm no further forward with a solution.  Its only this corner that causing the problem and I can see that once solved the rest will follow quite easily.

 

I could bodge it up but I'm not going too - so how to solve this problem???  I believe now that this particular plank requires carving just like the one on the outside of the transom.  I'm going to give it a go but the shape is going to be very hard to replicate.  Funnily enough my wife has suggested modelling clay to see the shape in 3D and you know what I think she may be right.

 

So why my post - for first time scratch builders like me - don't give up!  Carry on and find a solution even when you think its got you beat!!  I don't have a solution yet but I will at some point.

 

On the positive side all of the planks are cut at the correct thickness 

 

Also my template making is so much better too

 

And my desire to get completed is under control  - well sort of 😜

 

Anyway I'm still at it and I will get this sorted.  Thanks for being part of my learning

 

Cheers Mark

[bruce d]

Brilliant work and a good attitude - that's why I watch this build!

[scrubbyj427]

Perhaps you could start with a much wider plank, ( I assume the plank you need is the one traced out in pen?) get it shaped and fit, then sand to the appropriate width/shape? Or you could laminate two or three thin planks and take care to finish them so there are no seams visible. 
Good luck whichever route you take, the model is looking excellent.

[garyshipwright]

Hi No Ideal. When I come to hard spot's like what your up against you might take some painter's tape, take it and push it in place, then taking a pencil, mark around the planks and see what comes out. It usually a rough copy imprint of the area but it does give you a starting point. I do this a lot when I get to a place like your self. Hope this help's good sir. Gary

Edited October 2, 2022 by garyshipwright

[No Idea]

Thanks all - The issue I'm having is getting the plank bent without it cracking or snapping.  I've made this plank several times out of a wider piece of wood and thats not been my issue.  All of the above advice is absolutely spot on - I've even tried soaking a piece for an entire week but the bend is so tight at this point it cracked on the bend as well.  The plank at this point is 2.8mm thick so its a fair piece of wood to bend and I've made sure that at the bending point the grain is running correctly towards the transom.  I guess this is why I've reached the conclusion that this particular plank needs to be carved to shape. I'll keep at it until I get a working solution  

[bruce d]

27 minutes ago, No Idea said:

The plank at this point is 2.8mm thick

I see now. How about doing it in two layers of identical wood, each plank 1.4 thick?