Questions Before I Buy My First Ship

[Magarkus]

Hi ya'll, I've been in interested in ship modeling for a while and am finally planning to start a build. I'm 23 and from the Western US. I've read up on some of the resources and forums this site has and it's been very helpful, and given me great guidelines for my first choice and expectations. Im thinking about starting the Albatros Schooner for my first build. Now here is where I have some questions, I'm working as a Fire Lookout this summer in Idaho, so I'll have a lot of free time. I'll have a decently sized cabin to live in and should have a decent workspace. I was gonna pick up a modelers tool set (Razorblades, pliers, miter box, tweezers, etc.). Will that be enough to complete the project? And besides glue, what else is absolutely necessary? How detailed are instructions usually, is it step by step or should I really really familiarize myself with the building process beforehand? I have some woodworking experience, but does the kit come with extra stuff in case I fumble something? Since getting anything once I'm at the lookout will be a trek. Not sure if this was the correct spot to post this but it seemed like the best option.

Thanks in advance!

[ccoyle]

A few recommendations:

 

• I don't know much about the Albatros kit in particular, but it is a Mantua product, and they aren't one of the first names to come up in discussions about contenders in the "Best Kit Instructions" category.
• Starter tool combos have both their benefits and drawbacks. If you have zero tools to start with, then they're of course better than nothing. OTOH, many modelers, myself included, have quickly discovered after purchasing such tool sets that some tools get used a lot while others are rarely used, if ever. For that reason, some will argue in favor of a "go slow and buy only what you need" approach.
• Starter tool combos typically don't include tools that modelers often find indispensable once they really get into the hobby, such as rigging tools, plank bending irons, planking clamps, rotary tools, proportional dividers, etc. etc.
• Since you will be packing stuff into a relatively remote location and are taking on a project that may take you months to complete, you might want to think about how portable your project will be. A fully rigged ship model, even if still incomplete, is a bit fragile and thus a pain to move.

For your situation, i.e. a new modeler with no experience and working remotely, I would think seriously about a less demanding project that is better suited for beginning modelers. The new Shipwright Series from Model Shipways fits this description, as do the older kits from Midwest Products that are currently out of production but still available on eBay. BlueJacket Shipcrafters also has a line of beginner kits. These kits typically spell out exactly what tools are needed to finish the kit, which eliminates guess work. Grab a kit well in advance of your planned departure date, study the plans and instructions, and get your tools and materials together before you go -- you don't want to be sitting in the middle of nowhere when you realize that you forget to pack some essential tool or bottle of glue.

 

Be sure to start a build log once you get your project started and include some pics of the view from your tower!

 

Cheers!

[GrandpaPhil]

I would personally recommend Vanguard Models’s Cutter HMS Alert or one of their fishing boats for a good starter kit.  

The gentleman who owns the company and designs the kits, Chris Watton, is a member of this forum.

 

His kits are top notch.  The instructions are phenomenal.

Edited May 16, 2022 by GrandpaPhil

[Jeff5115]

I second the idea of a Vanguard kit for your first model.  My first build was the Vanguard Lady Eleanor.  If you visit the Vanguard website you can read the instructions for the builds.  Great products and instructions. 

[Oldsalt1950]

I'd start with Model Expos ModelShipright series. They are designed to lead you along in the various aspects of shipbuilding. As far as tools are concerned, get a good miter box and razor saw, a knife (Exacto or Excel) a dual scale ruler inches /cm, needle nose pliers, a tweezer. Carpenters glue, sandpaper, some superglue, and a variety of clamps. A stand alone mirror, or one with clamps attached for those small blocks so you can see what you are working on. As your budget, time and skills increase you can add other tools as needed. Best of luck to you, and look forward to reading your building log whatever you decide to get.

[mtaylor]

Magargus,

Welcome to MSW.

 

I would recommend you read this first before deciding on which model:  

 

 

As for tools, basic rule of thumb is to "buy them as you need them".  It's cheaper and you're buying what you need, not what some hobby shop or website says: here's what you need.   I suggest also.. go here: https://thenrg.org/resource/articles   And look at the "Plans" and the "Tools" sections.  There's some articles on what to expect in a model and also an article on basic tools.   Worst case... open a topic in the Shop Notes area.  Specifically in the Tools area and ask.

[Louie da fly]

Clamps! Get lots of clamps!

 

Steven

[allanyed]

Magarkus

WELCOME TO MSW!!  It great to see another "youngster" join this motley crew of oldsters.  I second and third the recommendations above for the David Antscherl designed shipwright series.   https://modelexpo-online.com/Model-Shipways-Shipwright-Series_c_815.html  After learning many very important basics with one or more of these beautiful models, if you are interested in a realistic looking larger vessel that is a more complex project, Vanguard has a good reputation for your next builds.   Pay heed to what Chris posted about Albatros.   Basic hobby tools are pretty much all you need for the shipwright series.  You will then see what additional tools you want to add to your bench.   Be aware, tool acquisition can be very addictive.  Look at the various build logs here at MSW and study the tutorials. (https://thenrg.org/resource/articles)

Allan

Edited May 17, 2022 by allanyed

[druxey]

And 90% rubbing alcohol (isopropanol) for de-bonding white or yellow glue! We all make oopsies....

[CPDDET]

I agree with the Model Shipways, Shipwrights series route. You might be able to finish the first 2 in the series seeing that you will have ample time on your hands.

Buy the kits well ahead of time and acquire the necessary supplies like glues, de-bonders  and such.

You might want to hit the hobby shop and pick up some basswood sheets of different thicknesses to have on hand in case you ruin something and have to replace it with a scratch built part.

[Keith Black]

 Welcome to MSW. Wishing you great success with your first build. 

[CPDDET]

While the shipwrights series does come with the "necessary" tools, you might want to consider a few others in case you need to make a scratch part. That may include, but not limited to a steel rule, small square, razor saw and set of files.

Your inability to acquire things while on fire watch puts you in kind of a pickle. Take your time in building a complete list and asking others on this forum for their input.

Once you have chosen a model, let us know which one it will be. That will be a big help on giving you advice on tools and supplies.

[Nirvana]

I like to welcome you to our group.

Firewatcher in Idaho! That"s a responsible job.

Now as for starter kit, I second every one that made their input. Maybe getting a non-masted model could be a way to get started and easy to move when needed. Not as delicate as a masted version.

Good luck and start a build log.

[DanB]

Hi,

Welcome to MSW. If you decide to go with the shipwright series, you can download the manual for each boat from the Model expo website at the page for the kit. The instructions are really excellent and very detailed. At the back of the instructions is a description of the tools and glues you need for each boat (the section gets longer as the models get more complex). I did get the fist kit with all of the tools which was a nice way to get started on the first model and then added the tools suggested for each model (I also upgraded the knives and paint brushes from the original set).   There is lots of great support available on this site. Good luck with your build!

[Peanut6]

Magarkus, welcome aboard.  Where in Idaho will you be?  I used to live in southeast Idaho, beautiful country.  Your foresight in planning is very wise and you've received some excellent advice regarding a first kit and "starter" tools.  Depending on how far out into the wilderness you will be, the nearest "service town" might not be much more than a wide spot in the road catering to those passing thru and a last stop for fishermen to gas up, eat up, double check the tackle box and make sure they have their liscense.  So getting something you need to continue your builld could be very problematic.   I took a look at my shipyard looking for things not already mentioned and some that are taken for granted as alway around/available.  I came up with the following:  rubber bands (variety of sizes), extra hobby knife blades, a few pieces of Lego building blocks, a roll of blue painters tape, depending on your kit - micro drill bits and a pin vise (be double sure the collets are suitable for such small bits), any paints, stains and/or finishes you want to use, various sized paint brushes, round tooth picks, sewing needles, a sharp pair of small fine tip sissors and patience.  I look forward to you starting a build log once you get set up and going.  And lastly I hope you don't have to report spotting anything other than the variety of wildlife that area of the contry has to offer.      

[Clark Griswold]

I doubt you'll have reliable internet service (blessing and a curse), so you may want to invest in a some good texts as well.  The NRG has a great collection and there is a thread on here of recommended books as well.  Personally, I have found Historic Model Ship by Wolfram Zu Mondfeld as a great reference.  Even if some of the info doesn't directly pertain to your model, it is still a good primer on ship modeling and the lexicon.

 

It will be frustrating at times... don't justify your summer job by lighting it on fire and tossing it off the tower. 😉

[Peanut6]

Great point Mr. Griswold.  I would add "The Ship Model Builder's Assistant" by Charles G. Davis, "Ship Modeling From Stem To Stern" by Milton Roth and "Ship Modeling Simplified" by Frank Mastini.  Between the three I've listed plus Mr. Griswold's offering you'll have a pretty solid selection of resources for information if you don't have reliable internet service.  Not only how to's, but definitions, tricks, tips, a bit of history in the evolution of components thru the years.  These four titles really are all I have/use other than the wisdom offered by the shipwrights here at MSW.

[Jaager]

I would add Underhill to basic library list.

If you favor wooden sail of US subjects, most everything that HIC wrote can be useful.  How much depends on your focus.

 

If you have a supply source with post office boxes, you may be able to use Amazon to obtain additional tools while in the boonies.

 

Plastic kits are where the instructions are expected to cover any information needed - except sophisticated painting and weathering.

Wooden ship model kit instructions are mostly about details that are unique to the subject being modeled.

The general techniques are so diverse and dense that it is not realistic nor possible for a kit to supply them.

If you get hooked into all of this for the long term, the store here is a good base.

Two printed volumes of shop notes.  CDs that have all volumes of NRJ,  SIS, and MB.  The latter two are very much more kit centric than NRJ.  The NRJ was and should still be mostly focused on what a spy would report about his current ships- shape and parts - narration about what was happening..

There is no single book that does it all.  It is a matter of cherry picking a technique here and a tip there.  This involves lots and lots of "trees" to pick from. 

[CPDDET]

Lots of good advice and information in these posts. But don't get confused or bewildered. Stay on course. Make out lists for needed tools, supplies and reference material. Try not to get overwhelmed. Being organized, calm and patient will serve you well.

[Magarkus]

Wow, thanks everyone for all of the feedback! I decided on two different kits to bring up. I think I'm going to start with the Grand Banks Dory from the Shipwright Series (feels a little less daunting as a starter than the Albatros.) it comes with some basic tools, but will probably grab a miter box, square, rule, some files? and some extra blades as well. And depending on how the first one goes I can supplement tools where needed for the next ship, probably gonna grab a couple extra sheets of basswood too. The second one I'm going to bring is the Sharpie Schooner Kit from Midwest, found one on Ebay for a great price. And luckily if I do find I need something else I think I can just ship it to the Ranger Station and pick it up from there during time off. I also picked up a couple of the books you guys recommended, I should have decent cell service but I'd rather play it safe. Plus I'm certain they'll come in handy down the line. I'll be sure to start a build log once I get all settled in and started on the Dory. And I'll definitely post some pictures of the view! 

And thanks again everyone for all the tips and feedback, it was super helpful. I feel way less overwhelmed and think I'm at a really good jumping off point for when the time finally comes to start!

[James H]

I don't really use much in the way of tools for what I do. 

 

To build VM prototype kits, I use:

• Scalpel knife
• sanding block and sandpaper
• tweezers
• steel rule
• clamps - 2inch and 4inch
• nail pusher 
• pin vice with selection of drills
• long nose pliers
• needle files
• waterline marker

I do have a plank nipper for occasional stuff, but really use it. They are cheap enough though.

 

Most of what you see there is very basic and quite inexpensive.

 

[Peanut6]

Magarkus, now that you've decided on your project(s) I suggest you start looking thru build logs of those kits.  Probably better to see what you're in for before you leave so that if some tool/item was "vital", that hasn't already been suggested, you'll have it with you.  And don't hesitate to ask questions.  As you can see, the folks here eagerly welcome all new comers and enjoy helping out when ever possible.  A couple things to remember, we all make mistakes (even the most experience builders here) so don't sweat it if/when it happens.  Any mistake can be fixed, it's just whether you feel it is worth fixing.  While still on my first build, I've decided the most valuable tool one can have is patience.   

[ccoyle]

Excellent kit choices -- I think you'll get a lot of enjoyment out of those two kits.

[Cathead]

Lots of advice already, but mine would be not to overdo it in tools. Most basic-intermediate kits can be built with a pretty reasonable set of simple hand tools. There are experienced modelers with huge workshops and every tool imaginable who will give beginners a giant list of "must-have" tools, but I think @James H has it right. I've built multiple kit and scratch models using what hand tools I could fit on a 30"x48" table in my living room. Fancier tools do make life easier eventually, but they're not needed and may even hinder you from developing good basic skills. There are many skilled "kitchen table" modelers here who do a great job with limited space, so you're in good company! Have fun and enjoy the view.

[CPDDET]

Good tip that mistakes can always be fixed. It's only wood and replacement parts can be fashioned from stock sheets of basswood. And wood filler can be a savior as well.

Before you purchase basswood sheets, check the thickness of the stock that come with kit so you know what to buy.

Also check out YouTube for your dory build.

Keep us all posted on you decisions and progress.

[Peanut6]

I agree with Cathead, a basic set tools is all that is needed.  You can go banana tacos crazy with all the things available.  Sure, some tools make things easier to accomplish.  Some are so task specific they may not be used all that often, but when needed it can be worth the investment to you.  And others are just a waste of money.  Yet the point being, a newbie to the hobby just doesn't know which items make up a basic set of tools.  If you decide that model ship building isn't for you, a well thought out selection of "basic tools" won't go to waste as you can always find a use for them in the future.  And if you decide you want to continue, you now have some experience to better select items to add to your shipyard tool chest.    

[Keith Black]

 IMHO a basic set of X-ACTO knives and a good pair of sewing scissors is a necessity.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[wool132]

The GB Dory is a great choice for a first kit. Plus you can easily haul it back out when you're done. I imagine something with masts and rigging would be a bit more problematic.

 

For tools, James H's list is great plus:

Woodworker's glue (Elmer's or Titebond, etc) plus alcohol to undo errors

CA glue plus CA dissolver to undo errors

Xacto knife w/spare blades plus band aids to patch errors

Eyewash kit to rinse out errant wood particles

A couple of lego blocks to ensure right angles

0.3 mm mechanical pencil and spare leads

Wood filler

Some acrylic paint and Winsor & Newton (or equivalent) quality brushes

An inexpensive brush or a box of toothpicks to spread out the woodworker's glue

A handful of #16 and #33 rubber bands

 

You may not need spare wood. The GB Dory kit already comes with some extra pieces plus you can recycle the leftover cutouts.

 

If you worked out in the gym with the offensive or defensive linemen in high school or college, you could also bring a hair dryer and traveling iron for bending planks, a Byrnes table saw, disc sander, and thickness planer plus a suitably large portable electric generator. 🙂

 

Jonathan

[CPDDET]

If you do bring some stock of basswood. Be sure you have a steel ruler and small square. Thin basswood can easily be cut with an xacto blade. A razor saw and miter box might not be necessary. The money better spent on a set of files. Don't forget various grades of sandpaper.

[mtaylor]

Little things to think about for tools.... T-pins and some wood clothes pins.  You'd be surprised how useful these can be.  And yes.. bandaids are a must.