Sea Harrier FRS1 by AJohnson - FINISHED - Airfix - 1:72

[AJohnson]

8 hours ago, Old Collingwood said:

Thanks  for the mention  @Edwardkenway    with regards  to  Primer  I have only  played around and used  the  Vallejo  Acrylic Surface Primer  - its  great  on figures  as  it shrinks down  and  follows the  profile  of the figures  -  only  complaint - its  not all  that tough and can scrape away  if knocked,   its  ok   once  paint layers  are  layed ontop though.

 

OC.

Thanks for the feedback guys, the fragile nature of the Mig Ammo primer is another concern, if you need to revisit an area and work on it or sand it, the primer tends to ball up and tear off rather than abrade to a thinner layer. 
@Edwardkenway yes it is the one shot stuff. I shall be returning to just using another (usually mid grey) enamel as my primer of choice. 

[Old Collingwood]

6 minutes ago, AJohnson said:

Thanks for the feedback guys, the fragile nature of the Mig Ammo primer is another concern, if you need to revisit an area and work on it or sand it, the primer tends to ball up and tear off rather than abrade to a thinner layer. 
@Edwardkenway yes it is the one shot stuff. I shall be returning to just using another (usually mid grey) enamel as my primer of choice. 

Andrew   some  folks  swear  by  Tamiya  rattle  can   primer   -  Its  supposed to  be   really good   -  just needs  lots  of ventilation  due  to the  odour  while  its   drying.

 

OC.

[CDW]

I wish I could sit down next to an expert user of acrylic paints through the airbrush, and just observe what they do and how they do it. I know for sure there are those who get incredibly good results from acrylic paints and primers because I have seen their finished products. If there is a truly "sandable" acrylic primer, I am unaware of what it is or who makes it. Acrylic paints through the airbrush remain an enigma for me.

[Jack12477]

19 minutes ago, CDW said:

Acrylic paints through the airbrush remain an enigma for me.

Me too !

[AJohnson]

30 minutes ago, Jack12477 said:

Me too !

What he said.... 🤔

[Egilman]

7 hours ago, AJohnson said:

I shall be returning to just using another (usually mid grey) enamel as my primer of choice. 

 

7 hours ago, Old Collingwood said:

some  folks  swear  by  Tamiya  rattle  can   primer

 

Tamiya Fine White or Grey are the only two I use anymore, Fine White for bright colors and ultra smooth surfaces and Grey for the rest... It does smell a bit but it's the fastest drying primer I've found and covers great... It also lays down the dead flattest I've ever experienced... leaves a smooth surface without runs or puddles and it will take both sprayed and brushed paint, enamel or acrylic..... To me it is the best available model paint primer hands down.... 

 

2 hours ago, CDW said:

If there is a truly "sandable" acrylic primer, I am unaware of what it is or who makes it.

 

None that I know of either... Acrylics don't have the bite of Enamel, they don't attach to the surface very well and forget smooth surfaces....

 

2 hours ago, Jack12477 said:

Me too !

+1

1 hour ago, AJohnson said:

What he said

+1

Edited November 25, 2022 by Egilman

[realworkingsailor]

1 hour ago, CDW said:

I wish I could sit down next to an expert user of acrylic paints through the airbrush, and just observe what they do and how they do it. I know for sure there are those who get incredibly good results from acrylic paints and primers because I have seen their finished products. If there is a truly "sandable" acrylic primer, I am unaware of what it is or who makes it. Acrylic paints through the airbrush remain an enigma for me.

 

I am far from being an expert, and it's been a few years, but I do have some experience airbrushing with acrylic. I agree that acrylics are not the easiest to spray, you have to really know your equipment, and what adjustments can be made to achieve a desired result (different sized needles, air pressures, those sorts of things). I can begin to make suggestions as every airbrush is different in construction and adjustment, so it's something that each person should become familiar with on their own. 

 

Not to go on a rant or anything, but I've seen what I consider to be misleading information/advice floating around MSW regarding acrylics and thinners. I've seen people swear up and down that acrylics can be thinned down with water with no problems. This is not a good approach for airbrushing. Most hobby acrylics that I've painted with use some form of glycol ethers or isobutanol as their solvents. These are types of alcohol that evaporate readily in air (which is why hobby acrylics cure quickly), and because alcohol and water do mix, after a fashion, it's given rise to the myth that acrylics are "water based". Thinning acrylics down to a consistency suitable for airbrushing using water will break down the paint matrix. Acrylic binders do not dissolve in water (otherwise you could clean up dried acrylic paint with it), and by diluting the alcohol, the curing process begins (which leads to gummed up airbrushes). The trick with airbrushing is to use a compatible thinner that will forestall this curing process as long as possible. I've used thinners made specifically for the paint I was using, or, for a cheaper alternative, window cleaner, such as Windex. I've never had any issues with the blue tint of Windex affecting the paint colour, even white. 

 

I think it's safe to say, with a properly adjusted airbrush and correctly thinned paint, airbrushing with acrylics can be relatively hassle free.

 

For what its worth, I painted the tuscan red on this brass model railway car with acrylics (thinned with Windex) using a Grex GenisisXT airbrush (the primer was rattle can Tamiya):

 

 

Andy

 

 

 

 

 

[Egilman]

31 minutes ago, realworkingsailor said:

(the primer was rattle can Tamiya)

The voice of experience I assume..... {chuckle}

 

Amen Brother...

[Canute]

Tamiya rattle can primers, the fine variety works for me. I miss Floquil, but I also learned to mask up for all types of paint.

 

Most definitely use the manufacturer's thinner for mixing up your colors. Cleanup on the other hand can be almost anything. Although I've read reports of Windex taking the chrome off the airbrush nozzle. Haven't tried that yet. And use distilled water if you decal. Most water from our taps have varying mineral content, so the cleanest stuff is distilled H2O. Most supermarkets stock it.

[Bob Cleek]

7 hours ago, realworkingsailor said:

Not to go on a rant or anything, but I've seen what I consider to be misleading information/advice floating around MSW regarding acrylics and thinners.

Excellent post! Full of good information.  Today's "coatings" are far more technical than plain old paint. 

 

 

[realworkingsailor]

6 hours ago, Canute said:

Although I've read reports of Windex taking the chrome off the airbrush nozzle. Haven't tried that yet.

I had never heard or read that, I had to do a little digging. Although it’s not clearly stated, I suspect it’s possibly due to people leaving their airbrushes (or parts) soaking in Windex for a couple of days or more. I’ve sprayed enough straight Windex when cleaning and I’ve not noticed any loss of chrome on my airbrush.

 

Andy

[Edwardkenway]

8 hours ago, realworkingsailor said:

 

I am far from being an expert, and it's been a few years, but I do have some experience airbrushing with acrylic. I agree that acrylics are not the easiest to spray, you have to really know your equipment, and what adjustments can be made to achieve a desired result (different sized needles, air pressures, those sorts of things). I can begin to make suggestions as every airbrush is different in construction and adjustment, so it's something that each person should become familiar with on their own. 

 

Not to go on a rant or anything, but I've seen what I consider to be misleading information/advice floating around MSW regarding acrylics and thinners. I've seen people swear up and down that acrylics can be thinned down with water with no problems. This is not a good approach for airbrushing. Most hobby acrylics that I've painted with use some form of glycol ethers or isobutanol as their solvents. These are types of alcohol that evaporate readily in air (which is why hobby acrylics cure quickly), and because alcohol and water do mix, after a fashion, it's given rise to the myth that acrylics are "water based". Thinning acrylics down to a consistency suitable for airbrushing using water will break down the paint matrix. Acrylic binders do not dissolve in water (otherwise you could clean up dried acrylic paint with it), and by diluting the alcohol, the curing process begins (which leads to gummed up airbrushes). The trick with airbrushing is to use a compatible thinner that will forestall this curing process as long as possible. I've used thinners made specifically for the paint I was using, or, for a cheaper alternative, window cleaner, such as Windex. I've never had any issues with the blue tint of Windex affecting the paint colour, even white. 

 

I think it's safe to say, with a properly adjusted airbrush and correctly thinned paint, airbrushing with acrylics can be relatively hassle free.

 

For what its worth, I painted the tuscan red on this brass model railway car with acrylics (thinned with Windex) using a Grex GenisisXT airbrush (the primer was rattle can Tamiya):

 

 

Andy

 

 

 

 

 

For years of figure painting with Citadel acrylic paints, albeit only with brushes, I must admit I only ever thinned the paint down with water. I know better now.

1 hour ago, Bob Cleek said:

Excellent post! Full of good information.  Today's "coatings" are far more technical than plain old paint. 

 

 

Total agreement!

[realworkingsailor]

10 minutes ago, Edwardkenway said:

For years of figure painting with Citadel acrylic paints, albeit only with brushes, I must admit I only ever thinned the paint down with water. I know better now.

You can get away with a little bit more when brush painting, but, yeah, you’re apt to get better results if you use a properly compatible thinner.

 

Andy

[Landlubber Mike]

For priming larger areas, areas to be masked, areas that may have imperfections that will need to be filled, etc., my go-to primer now is Mr. Surfacer.  It's a fantastic smooth finish that withstands taping very well.  You can get it in 1500, 1200, or 1000, which is like grit on sandpaper in terms of how much it will fill depressions (like sandpaper, the lower the number, the more it will fill, i.e., it is "coarser" to use a sandpaper term).  You can use it through an airbrush, or get it in rattle cans.  I usually airbrush it, but the rattle cans work very well and aren't prone to clogging or spitting as the Tamiya rattle cans.  They also come in multiple colors like light grey, black, and white.  Only issue is the stink - better to do it outdoors, or indoors with access to a window and/or venting unit.

 

For things that wont be masked like cockpit interiors, figures, etc., I'll use Vallejo primers for the convenience.  I thin it down with their thinner and add a few drops of flow improver, and it works nicely.  Same thing when airbrushing Vallejo Model Air paints or Vallejo Varnishes  - even though they say you can use straight out of the bottle, I always thin them down and add a bit of flow improver and have not had issues.  I do think you need to do a more thorough cleaning of your airbrush when using Vallejo however.  Even if it looks like you can run water through it and you're done, I believe it leaves trace amounts of a residue that will slowly accumulate and gunk things up.  So, after a session I'll wipe down the needle and clean out the nozzle using a small bristle brush followed by a metal needle.  That helps a lot.  You can also run a bit of lacquer thinner through the airbrush which will get rid of anything you missed.

 

This is an absolutely fantastic video from Vince Venturella that goes over the four basic components of paint (pigment, binder, solvent, and additives) and the additives that are out there and what they do.  Vince has really, really good videos that are geared towards miniature painting, but I've learned a ton watching them and have a much better understanding of paints and techniques that I can apply to model building.  

 

 

Edited December 1, 2022 by Landlubber Mike

[CDW]

That's a very good video, Mike. Thanks for sharing it.

It's important to know that the acrylic paints this gentleman is talking about are water-based acrylics, such as Vallejo or Mig Ammo, not solvent-based acrylic paints such as Mr. Color or Tamiya. These most definitely are not reduced with water, instead are reduced by IPA, trade-name reducer, or lacquer thinner. 

[AJohnson]

Hi Gang,

 

It has been a little while since the last update, but RL. (nothing dramatic, just work, chores etc.) and a general lack of enthusiasm for this kit has slowed progress down recently.  But I have pushed on as I have developed the knack over the years for not finishing projects and I'm in the mode of tidying up a few of these still! 

 

This kit is one of Airfix's poorest more recent moulds and has a fair few errors on it and general lack of detail; especially compared to their more recent 1/72 Harrier GR.1, a much better kit.  So I have not really put my best efforts into this one, it may live on the top shelf when done.

 

Anyway, grumble over - we are nearly ready for the decals 😁  Just need the gloss coat to cure.  Next update will probably be the big reveal as not a lot left to do, just glue on the wing pylons, fuel tanks and canopy, plus the tiny pitot tube and aerials.

I just would like to finish by saying "thank you" for all the likes and comments and I wish you all a Happy Christmas and very best wishes for 2023! 

Edited December 22, 2022 by AJohnson

[king derelict]

Looks great in black

Merry Christmas Andrew

Alan

[AJohnson]

Final update, finished this little Sea Harrier off, not a great build, but it is now off the shelf! Thankyou all for following along and the comments and suggestions regarding primers and decal solutions etc.  very helpful.

 

Hope you are all having a good Christmas break; we have been indoors having caught Covid-19, first my mother in-law, then my daughter and now me have it; nothing too bad more like a bad cold or mild flu, but breathing becoming a bit laboured this last day or so.

 

Final pictures include the Harrier GR.1a I built about four years ago (a much better kit.) alongside the Granddaddy 1/24, the venerable 1970's vintage Airfix for scale comparison!

 

Now back to the boatyard for a bit to finish off my "Nisha" and Bounty" - but don't worry non-ship builders, I'll still be lurking around here, besides I have a 1/24 Typhoon (Car-door version) and 1/24 Spitfire IXc that are calling to me.... 😆

[CDW]

Very nice!

[Dave_E]

Sweet! You don’t by chance fancy the Harrier do you? 😆👍😀

Edited December 29, 2022 by Dave_E

[king derelict]

You made a great job of a dodgy kit. Congratulations. Looks like you need a few AV=8Bs in there too

Alan

[Old Collingwood]

Super  finish  -   Boy   do  I remember that  1/24  Harrier   it was  one of the  first  kits  brought  for me  off my  dad  when I was a kid  -  remember the  sliding  canopy.

 

OC.

[AJohnson]

1 hour ago, king derelict said:

You made a great job of a dodgy kit. Congratulations. Looks like you need a few AV=8Bs in there too

Alan

I do indeed need some AV8Bs Alan, the Harrier is a plane that invokes pride (it was an export success in the opposite direction than usual across the pond for a change!) and a bit of shame (for we no long operate it, when other nations still do 😏)

F35B is now our mount, well it is when we launch it without the FOD covers on the air intakes!  Doesn’t make for a good submersible! 🤣

[AJohnson]

39 minutes ago, Old Collingwood said:

Super  finish  -   Boy   do  I remember that  1/24  Harrier   it was  one of the  first  kits  brought  for me  off my  dad  when I was a kid  -  remember the  sliding  canopy.

 

OC.

Yes it is an impressive kit (from a distance 😉). I built the Sea Harrier conversion years ago and had it until my young Son took it flying one day and it fell victim to his rough style of ”flying” around the house…. To mashup the well known journalistic quote from the Falkland’s war “I counted them all out, but unfortunately not all back.” 🤣

[Edwardkenway]

Nicely done Andrew!!

[popeye the sailor]

really nice work on the Harrier.....impressive to see it in different scales    hope you and yours had a super holiday season and a very prosperous New Year! 

[Landlubber Mike]

Great work Andrew!  Very well done!

[king derelict]

21 hours ago, AJohnson said:

I do indeed need some AV8Bs Alan, the Harrier is a plane that invokes pride (it was an export success in the opposite direction than usual across the pond for a change!) and a bit of shame (for we no long operate it, when other nations still do 😏)

F35B is now our mount, well it is when we launch it without the FOD covers on the air intakes!  Doesn’t make for a good submersible! 🤣

The Harrier story is impressive from the P1127, Kestrel and into the Harriers. Its amazing that something that had its genesis in the 1950s would be rated as one of the top five weapon systems in Desert Storm forty years later. Not to mention the Falklands. An engine that grew from 9000 lb thrust into 23500 lb in the same space envelope. Lots of challenges to continue to develop it and to fly it. I was the engine field manager in St Louis in the early / mid 90s (the first step on a journey that took me eventually to Florida. It felt like a brotherhood working on the AV-8B / Harrier. USMC, McDonnell Douglas, BAe, RR, MoD everyone wanted to make it work and make it better. I am still very proud of being part of that team. MacAir had a supersonic version in advanced projects with a RR / P+W engine and  new wing but JSF got into development and that was the end of it. I think I still have some concept images somewhere

Alan

[Canute]

I was in St Louis in'75 picking up an Imperial Iranian Air Force F-4E to ferry to the Shah. We got a tour of the facilities and saw that mocked up Super Harrier (I presume), tucked in among the Phantoms and Eagles MickyD was cranking out. The jet I picked up had one hour on it. That was the Functional Check Flight they did before shipping it out. Whatever writeups they may have had were insignificant. The jet smelled like a new car. The forms were clean, no carry overs.

[king derelict]

12 minutes ago, Canute said:

I was in St Louis in'75 picking up an Imperial Iranian Air Force F-4E to ferry to the Shah. We got a tour of the facilities and saw that mocked up Super Harrier (I presume), tucked in among the Phantoms and Eagles MickyD was cranking out. The jet I picked up had one hour on it. That was the Functional Check Flight they did before shipping it out. Whatever writeups they may have had were insignificant. The jet smelled like a new car. The forms were clean, no carry overs.

Interesting times Ken. Its got to be something to get into a totally clean jet. I was at Mac in 1993 and onwards so they had the F-15 lines going, the F-18, T-45 and the AV-8B. The jazzed up AV-8 may have been a warmed over version in the 1990s. P+W was offering up a new LP turbine and fan. RR was looking back over the PCB testing that had been done for the P1154 which was cancelled - but at least the RN got to fly F-4s instead.

I'll see if I can find the picture 

Alan