Sloop Speedwell 1752 by Chuck - Ketch Rigged Sloop - POF - prototype build

[JeffT]

That sure will make it easy.

[Mic_Nao]

Hi Chuck,

 

The organization of work is perfect and the result is admirable work !

[dvm27]

As close to a fool proof method of cant framing as I've ever seen. Amazing, Chuck!

 

The blade on my machinists square tapers to point on the fore edge. It's super accurate for transferring lines from the building board. It must have a special name but I can't find it on the internet. Perhaps a machinist will know what I'm describing.

[AnobiumPunctatum]

This is a brilliant idea for building the cant frames.

[navarcus]

Looking at pics of Navy Board ship models, many don't have cant frames.

Did you ever consider this option for less skilled modeler? 

[Chuck]

Thank you guys.  Its going well so far. You have to take your time to make sure the jig is positioned correctly initially.  Measuring against the plan on the baseboard.  But once thats in and the first set of cant frames firms up the assembly, it should be pretty easy with the remaining cant frames.

 

I will use the same style of jig at the stern for the aft cant frames.  

 

Navarcus… yes I have considered that but what you show is a stylized version of framing.  Its pretty but not how it was done on ships.  Framing like that would make for an excellent model but also has its challenges.  Its not what I would call easier.  Its just different.  But maybe for a another subject later.

[druxey]

Most ingenious, Chuck!

[Chuck]

I wanted to show you guys a glimpse into the world of designing a kit.   Especially one as complex as a fully framed project like the Speedwell.  Its why I get so passionate about other folks just copying plans developed like this.   It takes hours and hours to design each element.  This forward cant frame jig is no exception.   Its not like it ever gets done on the first try.   

 

This jig and all of the parts needed for Speedwell up to this point require a level of precision above and beyond a typical POB kit.  I actually had to make about nine forward cant frame jigs before I was fully satisfied.  Each iteration was tweaked just slightly and  laser cut.  It was tested and measurements taken from all angles.....then adjustments were marked and redrafted....and repeated.

 

Here are some of the discarded jigs.  All of them would have worked.  But the last one worked best.   

 

Things should progress quickly now until it comes time to make the aft cant frame jig.   Using a copy of the plans helps identify issues as well.   Here you can see the working plan cut and in position and how it matches up pretty darn close to all the framing.   Once drawn,  you have to tweak the parts to account for the laser kerf and sanding of char etc.   

 

[Mic_Nao]

Beautiful creation, I believe that this method will make followers.

[Hsae]

Yep, many people don’t even think about it how much work is going into a model kit, including me. 😉

 

Very nice work Chuck!

 

Hermann

 

 

[TBlack]

Chuck,

You once mentioned that the carved pieces will be available in 1:48 scale as well as your 3/8 scale. Is that still the case?

Tom

[Chuck]

Possibly yes.   But I am far far away from that.   That is a significant investment so it will come much later.

[Trussben]

That is a very clever way to construct the Cant frames Chuck! Very clever indeed.

[Rustyj]

I always knew you were very innovative but wow this is so next level!

[KenW]

Your design is innovative and revolutionary.  Plank-on-Frame modeling will never be the same.

Truly unbelievable!

 

[bdgiantman2]

13 hours ago, navarcus said:

Looking at pics of Navy Board ship models, many don't have cant frames.

I have noticed that myself and have wondered about this. Not sure more if a more modern model builder "cut some corners" by not doing the hawse timbers in the bow or if the scale admiralty models of that time period didn't have the hawse timbers but the real ship would have.  Or a third option could be that smaller ship models like that Dutch Statenjacht/Stuwart ship models wouldn't have had the hawse timbers unlike large ship-of-the-line models. Nevertheless, I am enjoying learning the more accurate construction from Mr. Passaro and other skilled modelers on this site.  

Edited February 20, 2023 by bdgiantman2

[Chuck]

Work continues on the fore cant frames....

 

The forward 3 cant frames are in one piece.  They were sanded and glued in position as mentioned earlier.

 

The remaining 8 cant frames are built up from two pieces as shown.  They are all 1/4" thick.  But they are the same as assembling the square frames.  Just sand the simulated chock joint for a tight fit as before.

 

Then remove the char and glue them in.  

I proceeded to install them working my aft.  All is going well.

 

The outside edge of each cant frame is lined up with a laser etched line on each lettered strip in the jig.

As mentioned earlier, the top of each frame is also flush with the top of the strip but this isnt as important.  If while putting the two halves of a frame together you over sand the scarf joint, It will become shorter.  That is perfectly fine if not excessive.  Any small differenced like that will be corrected while fairing the hull. So dont get worried if thats the case.

 

I did not do any progressive fairing of these.  I wanted to wait until all of the forward cant frames were installed.

 

In hindsight...after completing all of them,  I thought it probably would have been better to work from aft towards the bow.  At least after those three "one-piece" cants were added up front.   It doesnt matter in the end but getting the last two cant frames in was a bit fussy between the existing square frames.  I couldnt get my fingers inside the hull and that far back to position it too easily.  It would have been easier to work my way forward towards the first three.  But in the end it wasnt too bad.  In fact it went pretty quickly.

 

Once they were all added I could do some fairing.   This took a while as one would expect.  I only finished the port side.  I will do the other side this weekend.

 

It came out very well indeed and the bow is shaping up.   I am quite happy with the shape these cant frames created.  This is a long and narrow hull.  It has a very interesting shape.

Here is a picture with the hull upside down.  You can see how I faired the cant frames as they sat on the apron notches.   They were faired carefully into the rabbet.  This meant also sanding and fairing the sides of the apron to match the run of the frames into the keel.

Treenails were added to the cant frames just like the square frames using the black monofilament.  

 

Once I fair the other side,  I will start on the bollard and hawse timbers.  That will complete the framing at the bow rather than do the aft cant frames first.  It will be good to finish up all of the hull framing on the forward half of the hull.

 

Questions and comments are always appreciated.

 

 

 

 

 

[druxey]

For what it's worth, I find it far easier to do the cant framing fore and aft first, as the inside is far more accessible for fairing. Whether your method would allow this, after setting up the most forward and aft square frame, I don't know.

[dvm27]

My only comment is that I despise you for making this look so easy! This section took me a month or so with lots of scrap pieces. I found the transition from the aft cant to the first full frame especially troublesome. I am compelled to point out, however, the horrific omission of a treenail on the fore face of cant number five. I'm sure everyone else is up in arms at this as well.

[Chuck]

Too funny Greg.  Yes I saw that too about the treenail.  But you didn't catch them all.  There was another missing in that same photo.   Both have been added and all is now right with the universe.

[James G]

Chuck, what an amazing model and building approach! Do you have a rough idea of when a kit form might be available for us model ship building mortals? Also are you and the other MSW administrators thinking about this build as perhaps being a group project like the Winchelsea? Just curious and a bit hopeful. Thanks!

 

Jim

 

[Chuck]

It will be a while yet until the first chapter is released.  I want to get much further with the prototype.  In fact I wont be giving parts to a beta tester until all the framing is done on mine.  
 

Then he will hopefully be able to build it just as easily as I have.  If that goes well I will star selling chapters.  
 

Both Mike and Rusty will be beta building.  
 

It probably wont be until Summer if not later when they are for sale.  I am not rushing this to market and will be taking my time with it. Mike has started building already.  Rusty hasnt.  But I will be getting parts to him very soon.

 

I want to make sure to get it right.

 

Lets see how those bollard timbers and hawse frames go next!!!

[Hubac's Historian]

Just incredible!

[jfhealey]

Are you still thinking limited edition or have you come round to the view that 100 kits will leave an awful lot of disappointed would-be Speedwell builders? Then again, I suppose, there is only one of you....

Best wishes

Fred 

[Chuck]

With a group build that is up to you guys.  If enough folks buy the kit and want a group I will start one.  We need at least 6 to 10 people for that.  
 

As far as a limited run…It all depends really.  It depends on demand and on how easily I can get milled Cedar sheets.  There is a lot of wood in the kit.  And yes unfortunately that means it will be expensive.  
 

I will make that decision after its launched.  If I can manage to get enough wood and enough time to laser the parts I wont limit production.  But yes that will absolutely mean that there would be a long wait between batches while Joe mills more Cedar sheets for me.  
 

For framing alone this kit will need over 25 sheets of 1/4” Cedar.  I will need  over 250 sheets just to make 10 kits…

 

The same is true for the other thicknesses.  Its really just a problem with having enough lumber to make them.  The supply chain is a real bitch.  Not to mention I also need wood to continue making all of my other products.  
 

For any mfg..if you use a wood other than basswood its problematic getting enough material.  There are literally only two people in the entire world that are milling Alaskan Yellow sheets.  Only one in the USA.  
 

Think about that.

[Mic_Nao]

Excellent ! What else...

[James G]

Thanks for the update, Chuck! I’ll continue to follow your progress closely and understand that there are lots of logistics to figure out. No rush…my hands are plenty full with the Winnie. 😆😆😆 However, if a group build gets going on this model I want to start with the majority at the same time. I’ve joined the Winnie group pretty late.

 

Jim

[Trussben]

Hey Chuck, on fore can’t frame #10, it looks like the lower chock joint doesn’t match the run of the others?

[Chuck]

You are correct.  That has been fixed for everyone elses model.  But I noticed it too late on mine.  Dont want to risk damaging the mode at this point.  You can only see it when the hull is upside down anyway.  So I am not worried about it on my model.

[navarcus]

If I were any good at this, this would be pretty.

OTOH it was pretty simple - the bow hawse part is just solid wood.

Built 'rack of eye' almost in mid-air but with plenty of meat to sand down - more to do!

Single-foot-hook can split if not seasoned, but Fubbs kit worked up pretty well with LSS 2009 CNC cutting.