Where to start?

[Nixa Jim]

I'm 75 YO, I have extensive experience with woodworking, mainly furniture, etc. So I have no problem with following directions (except from  LOML😀). I don't think I need to start at level 1 or 2. Am I wrong with probably a level 3?  I'm interested in sailing ships but possibly a Navy battleship. 

 

All suggestions are welcome.

 

Thanks

 

Jim

[Friedrich Ihn]

I'm 71 and been building (mainly plastic) models for over 60 years, but went over to wooden sailing ships nearly a year ago.

 

Can I recommend the Polaris by Occre as a perfect entry kit. The instructions are very full and there is a video aid available which seems to cover every aspect. I found it a delightful ship to make and was delighted with the result, which is so important for encouragement towards the next build. 

Regards and welcome from another  Jim.

Edited December 19, 2022 by Friedrich Ihn
Forgot to sign off

[druxey]

Welcome aboard Jm. Sure, certain skills in cabinetry transfer well to wooden ship models, but some skills will need miniaturizing!

[vossy]

Hi Jim. Number 1 rule for me is build a vessel that interests you. Try to stay away from more complex hull types such as Victory, Bounty, Endeavour. ie. anything with a bluff bow.

 

Don't expect the instructions to go from A - Z with no problems in between. Indeed, some manufacturers will only provide somewhat rudimentary instructions, and often not in

English.

 

Don't worry if your build doesn't come out looking exactly like the exquisite picture on the box. These are models most likely built by "expert" modellers and photographed by

"expert" photographers.

 

Have fun!

 

Chris.

   

[Gregory]

2 hours ago, Nixa Jim said:

possibly a Navy battleship. 

Not many options for this in wood ship modeling..

 

You might take a look at this:

Not to label you as a rank beginner, but there is some great information there about getting started in wood ship modeling..

                                                                                                                 

[Keith Black]

 Jim, welcome to MSW. is there a time period that you have a particular interest in? Glad to have you aboard. 

[Jaager]

2 hours ago, Nixa Jim said:

I don't think I need to start at level 1 or 2. Am I wrong with probably a level 3?  I'm interested in sailing ships but possibly a Navy battleship. 

You already speak "wood", which puts you ahead,  but wooden vessels involve learning an entirely new language. 

The rate of attrition is very high with enthusiastic beginners.  To gift yourself with an optimistic chance of sticking with it, level 1 is still the path to do it.   If you are US based,  something like a Bluejacket beginner's kit is worth consideration.  Small open boats are not as sexy as a large vessel with multiple masts, but they are elegant in their own way and their brothers are a part of the big boys, so the skills translate as well as does the language.

Steel - if that is what is meant by Navy battleship - involves a whole lot of different skills and a different focus. 

Even here, because of size a BB has a ton more of repetitive detail that a YTB or a YMS or even a DE.

[Roger Pellett]

Why do you want to build ship models?  Do want to recreate something representing a particular historic time or event.  Are you interested in a particular maritime industry or culture, or is the intellectual challenge sufficient to sustain you throughout the project?  I personally believe that more models are never completed because the builder loses interest than because he lacks ability.

 

What type of work interests you?  Wood carving, metal work, painting, rope work?

 

Are you content following instructions or do you like to branch out on your own?  Will you be satisfied with quality of parts and materials furnished by someone else?

 

I think answering these questions can help you select the right project for you.  In my opinion there is no reason why a competent craftsman who can read drawings and is interested in learning about maritime technology cannot pick something that interests them, accumulate the necessary research materials and scratch build a model.  If you are interested in building a 1940-1960 era naval vessel a great example would be the US Navy 1950’s era MSB (minesweeping Boat).  See the build log on the Scratch Build 1900 and Later section of the forum.

 

Roger

[Knocklouder]

Pick one that you like and run with it, so many here will help if you ask  you'll see !!

Edited December 25, 2022 by Knocklouder
Yep typos 😒

[RossR]

I started with HMS Beagle from Occre.  Good instructions and about 130 short youtube videos to demonstrate various techniques.  I had no modeling experience and am pretty happy with the result.

 

Good luck

 

[OllieS]

One thing to consider is how much time you want to spend doing this. Even a simpler model is hundreds of hours, a desirable model like the Victory or the Cutty Sark would be well over 1000.

Occre is a good place to start (I am now on my third one).

For the most help in making an excellent model you could consider one of the Vanguard fishing boats.

[allanyed]

Jim

Rather than base a decision on advertising, there are hundreds of build logs of dozens of vessels here at MSW.  Some kits get five stars, some don't.  Spend a few days or weeks studying the many choices available.  Look at the wide price ranges and when it comes to quality remember the old adage you get what you pay for. 

Allan  

[Richmond]

If I had my time again I would pick a POB ship rather than POF

 

I believe it would be much easier to hone planking skills on POB then on a POF.
 

But that's just me.

[Nixa Jim]

Hello everyone and thanks for all the information from you mates. I'm sorry about the slow response to all of your thoughtful replies the holidays go in the way. Many of the terms you all used is puzzling to me. ie, POB, POF, BB, YTB, YMS and DE?

 

I don't necessarily don't want to start with wooden ships, I don't want my ego shot down early in this venture. I understand baby steps, just like in building furniture. Plastic is okay with me. I don't have enough maritime knowledge to know what time period I want to delve into. I'm a WW II enthusiast, some thinking about maybe a plastic model from that vintage to get my sea legs in order.

 

One manufacturer crept up in your responses was Occre. I plan to check them out very soon. I'm intrigued with ships although I get sea sick in the bath tub. 

 

Clear sailing,

Jim

[mtaylor]

I'd say "start small"... no masts and then build from there.   Model Expo offers a 3 kit starter package just for this purpose.  Plastic and wood basically are two different skill sets, so give it some thought, start simple.  Use the resources here at MSW also.  One of the best resources is a build log for each model. And above all else, have some fun and enjoy the process.

[Keith Black]

9 hours ago, Nixa Jim said:

Many of the terms you all used is puzzling to me. ie, POB, POF, BB, YTB, YMS and DE?

 

POB = plank on bulkhead, POF = plank on frame, BB = battleship, YTB = tugboat, YMS = minesweeper, and DE = destroyer. 

[Nixa Jim]

On 12/24/2022 at 11:58 AM, RossR said:

I started with HMS Beagle from Occre.  Good instructions and about 130 short youtube videos to demonstrate various techniques.  I had no modeling experience and am pretty happy with the result.

 

Good luck

 

I checked this one out on Occre and it looks like the sails are sold separately for $48. Is this the norm with kits?

[RossR]

1 hour ago, Nixa Jim said:

I checked this one out on Occre and it looks like the sails are sold separately for $48. Is this the norm with kits?

I think Occre used to sell two versions.  The less expensive version didn't include some feature including sails.  Mine included the sails and I think that is the only version listed on the Occre site for sale now.  They are really good about answering questions if you use the chat feature on their web site if you want to comfirm.  

 

Regarding sails in general, some companies include them and some do not.  

[ccoyle]

30 minutes ago, RossR said:

Regarding sails in general, some companies include them and some do not.

 

True dat. I think it is more commonplace for kits to include sailcloth and patterns rather than sewn sails, but yeah, there is no industry standard on this.

[Jaager]

OcCre HMS Beagle is 1:60.

Cotton is not a fiber that can come close to scale sails as a fabric at 60 times smaller.

No cloth fabric that is a practical choice will fit to scale.   You have to be willfully delusional to see the OcCre sails as scale realistic,  if academic and historically accurate is your standard,  but that is not the majority standard.

 

The paper that is used as covering on aircraft models - one brand is SilkSpan - is more realistic.

For a kit model, this is best done as a scratch addition.  It is not easily done well as an assembly line product.

The cost of materials probably comes closer to $5 per model, when spread over the number of projects that the minimum size of each component will serve.   Of course, the cost of your labor will exceed $50, even if  minimum wage is the basis. 

 

For most ship models,  if you do manage to sell it, the return would probably barely cover the cost of materials - if that.  It requires real artistic skill, an outside reputation, and ruthless efficiency plus economy to get any return on your labor.

 

Plastic models are far more focused on fine details and an exacting finish than with a model made of wood.  Because it is wood,  if the original subject was also wood,  doing much more than what is minimally sufficient for a finish is lost to view and overpowered by the natural material.

 

Edited January 11, 2023 by Jaager

[Roger Pellett]

The Classic wooden ship model seldom included sails.  Why?  As Jaager explains, they are next to impossible to make to scale; they collect dust, especially with an uncased model; and old time model makers were often more interested in hull shape and deck arrangements than rigging.  Even today sails are seldom seen on models offered for sale by known professional builders.  If you want to build a model from a kit, don’t bother paying extra for the sails.

 

Roger

Edited January 11, 2023 by Roger Pellett

[allanyed]

5 hours ago, Nixa Jim said:

I checked this one out on Occre and it looks like the sails are sold separately for $48. Is this the norm with kits?

Everything Roger and Jaager said times 100.   They are absolutely correct and you would be wasting your money IF realism is an important part of this hobby for you.   Personal tastes comes into play so realism is not the same priority for every builder.  It is after all, a hobby.  I am in the same boat with Roger and Jaager, so would emphasize there is no cloth or method of sewing a sail at 1:60 scale in existence that will look remotely realistic.   If you must have sails there is an excellent and inexpensive booklet on sail making using silk span by David Antscherl available from SeaWatch books.   https://seawatchbooks.com/products/swan-iv-sail-making-supplement-from-the-revised-and-expanded-edition-by-david-antscherl  

Allan

 

Edited January 11, 2023 by allanyed

[RossR]

2 hours ago, Jaager said:

OcCre HMS Beagle is 1:60.

Cotton is not a fiber that can come close to scale sails as a fabric at 60 times smaller.

No cloth fabric that is a practical choice will fit to scale.   You have to be willfully delusional to see the OcCre sails as scale realistic,  if academic and historically accurate is your standard,  but that is not the majority standard.

 

 

I may be in the minority on this forum, but my primary objective in building models is the enjoyment I get from the process and the satisfaction that I get having built the completed model.  HMS Beagle was my first attempt at building a model ship.  I accept that the sails are not to scale, but I like the look of the sails on the ship with the extra detail of the rigging that goes with them, and I enjoyed the process of adding them.  

 

My second model will hopefully be better than my first, but it will still have out of scale sails provided by the manufacturer.  I am not delusional, my motivation in building the model is just different than some.   I think a beginner should feel perfectly fine using the sails that come with their kit if they are happy with the outcome.   Someday I may tackle scratch building SilkSpan sails, but for now I will learn and improve other skills needed to build a model that I enjoy.  I hope everyone gets the same satisfaction from the hobby that I do.  

 

 

   

Edited January 11, 2023 by RossR

[rcmdrvr]

Hear! Her! on the enjoyment part.

[GrandpaPhil]

I sew mine from muslin linen with standard sewing thread for my 1/72 scale and larger models.

They look good on the models that they are on (to me anyway).

Edited January 11, 2023 by GrandpaPhil

[allanyed]

3 hours ago, RossR said:

I may be in the minority on this forum... my primary objective in building models is the enjoyment 

Actually I think we ALL get enjoyment or would not be so keen on our hobby so I believe you are in a majority.  After all, why bother if we are not enjoying what we are doing.  We all have different desires and priorities of what to include in any build on which we embark, but none are wrong, just different.

Allan

[RossR]

1 hour ago, allanyed said:

Actually I think we ALL get enjoyment or would not be so keen on our hobby so I believe you are in a majority.  After all, why bother if we are not enjoying what we are doing.  We all have different desires and priorities of what to include in any build on which we embark, but none are wrong, just different.

Allan

Well said.  

[Alex-Ks1]

Jim, start where you think it will be ok for you. If by looking at a photo of ANYTHING and it looks complicated to you, then by all means look at a lesser kit, weather it wood, plastic or all aluminum. You have to be the one that says you're a 1,2, 3,, or lever 12 builder. 

I build them for the enjoyment of seeing a bunch of plywood that ends up a wooden ship, I really could care less what people think of what I do.

I have even sold 3 so far, and have given some away, My wife doesn't t want these dust collectors in the house, I have one, a 6 ft hull of the Flying fish  on a chest of drawers in the dining room. Look at all the builds here there is a ton of info to use.

[Alex-Ks1]

this has nothing to do with this thread,  I tryed to start a topic and it says its SP spam protected, I couldnt choose what type of topic .

Can any one help. I looked at the web page for this spam page and will not download any thing I know nothing about 

[mtaylor]

52 minutes ago, Alex-Ks1 said:

this has nothing to do with this thread,  I tryed to start a topic and it says its SP spam protected, I couldnt choose what type of topic .

Can any one help. I looked at the web page for this spam page and will not download any thing I know nothing about 

Contact @James H  He's the one who can help.