HMS Portland 1770 by scrubbyj427 - 1:48 - 4th rate 50-gun ship

[scrubbyj427]

2 hours ago, allanyed said:

Hopefully Ed Tosti (Naiad and Young America) sees this and can add some information.  I had the privilege to visit him at his home quite a few years ago and see his collection of miniature military figures prior to his fabulous work on the ship models and books.  I have never seen better representation than his collection.   Maybe PM Ed to ask if he can lend some advice/methods based on his experience.   

Allan  

Hi Allan, I’ve carelessly painted cast metal figures in the past with decent results from 10’ away, but I know there is a whole niche of the hobby out there that involves these figures, that with the right camera are almost convincing enough to be real humans. 

[scrubbyj427]

Finishing up the stern structure, there is just 4 more pieces I need to add 

these are here to help with planking, the lower pieces have a fairing reference line as you can see below

the horizontal pieces get installed first

and after you have sanded the lower pieces they can then be installed. You can see the notches cut into the top, these just fit right under those frames and should line up with the bottom Of frame 25.

now I will completely fair out the stern and prepare the counter for planking. A .25”x.0625” rabbet strip will also need to be added to the stern.

Happy sanding!

 

JJ

 

[monteumbe]

On 2/27/2024 at 1:34 PM, scrubbyj427 said:

So I have been fairing the hull up the last week, I’ve mostly been working on the top sides with the model remaining upright.

My plan is to fair the hull to the lower wales and start planking upwards on both sides before I move the hull from its stands and flip it over. Once all the frame extensions are planked I will coat the inside with epoxy, this will make everything rigid and allow the removal of all internal jig structure, from there I will begin planking from the wales down.

 

As mentioned earlier there are some remaining structural parts to add after initial fairing has been completed, this is all centered around the stern as you can see below. Below you can see some additional pieces that further tie the stern frames together and define the upper and lower counter.

These pieces can now be added, they are quite simple. You’ll notice that one of them has decorative panels on it, this is one of the first attractive parts that needs to be added now and I’ll cover this shortly.

We will begin with the two pieces etched with upper and lower, these tie the frames together and define both counters as well as where the windows will be placed on the gun deck.

adding the lower piece, I did heat it a little to help it conform easier as it needs to have the proper round up on it, the frames and the jig will hold its shape but it was just easier

to install with a little bend to it. Be careful NOT to glue it to the jig! You can see above that I only added glue to the frames. You can add a rubber band to it and utilize the pegs above on the jig to ensure it’s held tight. Go ahead and repeat the exact same process with the horizontal frame marked “upper”.

Now we move up to the balcony area, this is made of two parts with help tie the upper structure together by also define the balcony and act as a sub deck, fancy mouldings will also attach here.

You’ll notice the two little notches in the outboard stern frames as well as the notches in the middle frames, these notches line up the balcony pieces. We will begin with the lower piece that has the panels etched in. Before installing the paneled piece I finished sanded it and gave it a nice coat of WOP for protection. It will be awhile before it gets attention again.

The upper and lower balcony pieces look very similar but they are not and will not interchange so pay attention. The etched panels need to face down, the panel slides into the slots in the frames, make sure it fits the frames and is angled the same as the slots. This should be easy but be sure, this also defines the angle of the upper deck. You can now install the upper piece, they will be laminated together and should line up perfectly

I clamped them together carefully with some small clamps hanging off the ends to help maintain the correct round up. You can also see I put a support piece under the center clamp just to make sure the clamp weight didn’t pull the balcony down to the wrong angle

below you can clearly see the deck angle on the 3D model.

Once this is complete we have some filler pieces that need to be added, these will define the outside of the lower counter.

Starting with the larger one and working outward

this just glued to the outboard stern frame and the gun port framing structure. I only used two per side. There will be a template of the lower counter that you apply after it is all faired up. This will give you the shape of the counter that can now be shaped/sanded from the sides.

 

You can see below I already started fairing the frames in preparation for the counter template. I will cover this next.

Ive also hired Horatio Hornblower as a project manager from @chris wattonand the staffing agency at Vanguard models.

Amazing detail on this resin print, now I need to attempt painting him. So far he seems pleased with the progress and I wouldn’t dare argue with an armed Captain.

Thanks for looking in,

JJ

 

[Jaager]

Rather than the vertical under the counter supports, why not mimic the original and use horizontal instead?

I would worry that vertical may not fit well with the run of the planking.  The upper part of the planking will run in almost the same axis.

 

You could have flat filler pieces between the pseudo transoms with holes for dowels into the last mold.  This would make a precise locator for each filler (reverse mortise) for almost idiot proof slots for the transoms.   You could include a few Bamboo skewers as the dowels and burn holes that are their diameter.

If you doubled up on each transom (two pieces instead of one in each slot) the planking would have a firm support.  The planking will have serious bending and a firm base will have a better grab. 

[scrubbyj427]

On 3/12/2024 at 1:19 AM, Jaager said:

Rather than the vertical under the counter supports, why not mimic the original and use horizontal instead?

I would worry that vertical may not fit well with the run of the planking.  The upper part of the planking will run in almost the same axis.

 

You could have flat filler pieces between the pseudo transoms with holes for dowels into the last mold.  This would make a precise locator for each filler (reverse mortise) for almost idiot proof slots for the transoms.   You could include a few Bamboo skewers as the dowels and burn holes that are their diameter.

If you doubled up on each transom (two pieces instead of one in each slot) the planking would have a firm support.  The planking will have serious bending and a firm base will have a better grab. 

Hi Jaager,

I understand what you are saying and I’ve definitely considered this for production. I think for the current prototype that I am producing I will likely stuff balsa filler blocks in there and use the verticals as a fairing guide. I hope to resume work soon.
JJ

[jfhealey]

Hi JJ

I'm sitting in the early evening sunshine with a beer thinking about model ships - and the absence for the best part of a month of an update from you on your wonderful Portland project. Any news?

Fred 

 

[scrubbyj427]

21 hours ago, jfhealey said:

Hi JJ

I'm sitting in the early evening sunshine with a beer thinking about model ships - and the absence for the best part of a month of an update from you on your wonderful Portland project. Any news?

Fred 

 

Thank you Fred, I appreciate it. Life has forced me to halt work on Portland, but I’m trying to get back into it shortly.
 

Just received my 3D printed QG’s. Will be posting an update soon. 
 

JJ

[jfhealey]

10 minutes ago, scrubbyj427 said:

Will be posting an update soon.

Good-oh

[scrubbyj427]

I’ve faired most of the hull except for below the wales, the reason is that I want to plank the upper sides and make sure they are stable and epoxied before I turn the model on its side to fair the lower sides, so I’ve faired below the wales a decent amount. The bow and the counters are faired as well.

 

The upper planking where all the moldings and friezes go is laser cut basswood, it has etched reference marks for the QG’s, moldings, fenders and chesstrees. The one you see on the model now is only a test piece and  not the final design. 
 

The lower counter will be a laser cut piece of basswood that will also double as a fairing guide for the counter structure, you can see I used a paper template, I had to make about 6 of them before it finally fit right. So the wood one is coming soon. 

Now for the resin printed QG’s, this was an ambitious project but I thought why not give it a shot and so far I’m quite happy with how they fit. I wanted to attempt this because as I was designing laser files for a two deck QG out of wood, I just felt there were too many ways for it to go wrong if one isn’t careful and spoil the model, thankfully this is going to work and save a lot of trouble.

Now once you fit the QG’s and everything lines up then they need to come off and be finished. You will have to paint them, add the roof tiles, friezes, scraped moldings, windows and a few other decorations and when complete they should be indistinguishable from built up wooden ones. I’ll go into more detail later about how to install them but they will require a little finesse, but not much. 

I have some boxwood on order and will start producing the laser files and testing  for the windows. Also I’m going to begin adding the upper and lower wales, this will be important to get the planking right.

 

Thanks for looking in.

 

JJ

[yvesvidal]

13 hours ago, scrubbyj427 said:

That is a beautiful part. The galleries (toilet rooms) were by far the most difficult and challenging parts of the CAF kit of the HMS Bellona, that I put together. I wish I had something of that nature, 3D printed.

 

You did a great job at creating these complex parts with your software.

 

Yves

[Beef Wellington]

Awesome progress!  Question on the galleries, do you think you will be using the resin/plastic galleries in the final version?  It feels a little our of keeping with the other wonderful wood of the model.

[scrubbyj427]

9 hours ago, yvesvidal said:

That is a beautiful part. The galleries (toilet rooms) were by far the most difficult and challenging parts of the CAF kit of the HMS Bellona, that I put together. I wish I had something of that nature, 3D printed.

 

You did a great job at creating these complex parts with your software.

 

Yves

Thank you Yves, they were quite tricky to 3D model and then make them printable. I think they will work out well though. Will see in the coming months 

[scrubbyj427]

5 hours ago, Beef Wellington said:

Awesome progress!  Question on the galleries, do you think you will be using the resin/plastic galleries in the final version?  It feels a little our of keeping with the other wonderful wood of the model.

Hi Jason, thanks for looking in. I’m going to build my prototype with the printed ones, my goal is to make them indistinguishable from wooden constructed ones. I will paint the inside either a pale white or that olive green color we see on occasion. They will also have wooden floors inside them. The outsides will be covered with scraped boxwood moldings, columns, windows and carved wooden sculptures. The friezes will cover the lower QG followed by a carved boxwood drop and printed friezes as well as the lower roof. So everything will covered up quite well. Will be hard to tell they are even printed at that point.

 

JJ

[scrubbyj427]

Small update, I’ve added the upper laser cut planking panels to the model, these will be the ones used in on the final model, with a few slight modifications that I’ve overlooked but corrected on my model. To begin I placed a board across the beam to ensure the proper height of the panels and I clamped them as I went along, once I was happy with their location I ran a batten underneath both of them to ensure that the planking that will follow below will have a smooth joint and continuity with the laser cut panels, once the panels were tweaked to fit right I then glued them into place using CA.

you can see below that I made some adjustments to the aft panel so the forward one would line up with the gun ports.
You’ll also notice the grey primer, I find this necessary with MDF as it’s super porous and soaked up three coats of solvent based primer. The primer also will not swell the MDF and allows it to be sanded smooth in preparation for whichever red you choose for  your port framing.

The batten ensured that I could set them right back where they belong without losing the correct position. I kept the front one clamped in its location while I glued the stern one, this ensured that there was no lateral movement of the aft panel.

The same process was repeated for the front panel.

 

I also begin the lower wales, you’ll notice the same process where I used a batten I reference to the marks on the bulkheads “W1”. The batten goes on the lower side of the line, once the batten passes the eyeball test then it’s time to start the wales, now the wales on this model are over 1/8” thick so unfortunately they will have to be done in two pieces, the first layer I’m cutting them at .080” with a significant taper in the front to fit the rabbet and allow for another layer to go over it and fit in the rabbet as well.

I’m not really concerned with the length or butt joints of the first layer of planks as they will be covered up, just get a smooth run with tight joints.
Unfortunately I can not proceed any further until I complete the counters, I have a laser cut lower counter that I will be testing soon and from there I will plank the upper counter using the laser cut lower as a guide.

 

I will be off for a month in the Himalayas, hiking to Everest base camp and beyond, so I won’t have any updates until about June, possibly one more before I go but will see.

 

Thanks for looking in.

JJ

[Ronald-V]

The ship looks massive! Nice update

 

Have a fun trip and stay safe! 

[allanyed]

22 hours ago, scrubbyj427 said:

I will be off for a month in the Himalayas, hiking to Everest base camp and beyond,

JJ

Sounds like a great trip.   I can no longer imagine my old bones going on such a hike now but back in the day it would have been a dream come true.  ENJOY!!!!

Allan

Edited April 30 by allanyed

[rlb]

Sounds like an epic trip, JJ!   Have fun.

Ron

[jfhealey]

Have a great trip. Don't get eaten by a yeti. Or, more prosiacally, if my Mum were here: "Don't forget to wear something warm." Mums the world over are like that aren't they?.

All the best

Fred

PS Portland is looking terrific.

[Matt D]

This looks amazing, JJ!  Your design seems to incorporate all of the best techniques I’ve seen on MSW.  It’s a lot of fun watching it come together.  My favorite detail you have is the laser cut slots for the channels. That’s going to make it so easy to locate and securely mount them.

Edited May 16 by Matt D

[glbarlow]

Well done JJ, amazing design work! I can't imagine a hike to the Himalayas parking lot let along any further.  Be careful and enjoy the trip. Having just "located" the channels your design element marking them and making them easier to install is a excellent feature.

[scrubbyj427]

On 5/16/2024 at 4:28 AM, Matt D said:

This looks amazing, JJ!  Your design seems to incorporate all of the best techniques I’ve seen on MSW.  It’s a lot of fun watching it come together.  My favorite detail you have is the laser cut slots for the channels. That’s going to make it so easy to locate and securely mount them.

Thank you Matt, I appreciate it. I’ve spent many hours trying to think of little conveniences for the builder  that won’t compromise the appearance of the finished model. Will resume work soon.

 

JJ

[scrubbyj427]

On 5/16/2024 at 10:03 AM, glbarlow said:

Well done JJ, amazing design work! I can't imagine a hike to the Himalayas parking lot let along any further.  Be careful and enjoy the trip. Having just "located" the channels your design element marking them and making them easier to install is a excellent feature.

Thank you Glenn. 
The Himalayas are not for the faint of heart! However you did take a trip to Patagonia, I’m confident you could navigate beyond the parking lot (the parking lots are non existent, which is great!).

Thanks for looking in.

[scrubbyj427]

I’m back in the states, making  a pit stop home to laser cut a few things, I should be back at it in a week or so. Will post some updates as I begin my planking journey. 
For now here are some photos of the Everest base camp trek, which took me above 18,500’ and through 32 miles of rough Himalayan terrain but the views were simply spectacular!

 

JJ

 

Edited May 27 by scrubbyj427

[Thukydides]

There is nothing quite like the Himalayas. And it is impossible to understand how awe inspiringly big they are until you have been in them. I find even pictures don't fully capture it. Looks like you had a great time.

Edited May 27 by Thukydides

[scrubbyj427]

7 minutes ago, Thukydides said:

There is nothing quite like the Himalayas. And it is impossible to understand how awe inspiringly big they are until you have been in them. I find even pictures don't fully capture it. Looks like you had a great time.

Yes, that is exactly what I say to people. I found that I literally had to look up when viewing these giants and your camera removes that task. The scale and beauty of this range is simply indescribable.

[scrubbyj427]

The preliminary design for the stern carvings are now complete, I’m going to review them and make any adjustments necessary and proceed with the prototype sets. Looks like I need to get moving on the model so I have something to attach these beauties to.

 

JJ

[Chuck]

Beautiful....simply beautiful.

[scrubbyj427]

17 hours ago, Chuck said:

Beautiful....simply beautiful.

Thank you Chuck

[scrubbyj427]

Small update:

I installed the lower counter, this is a laser cut piece and it fits pretty well, you may have to finagle the port openings a little but it’s close. You can see I added some material, so I’ll add that on to the cut file. It’s easier to sand down then add. 

The install is pretty straight forward, I focused around it fitting the ports more than anything and the rest falls into place. I first got the back side wet so that it wanted to curl up in the correct direction, after I test fit several times and the wood was dry I used PVA and clamps to hold it down. Around the edges of the ports and the middle frames I used CA as it wanted  lift off. 

I did screw up a little and left about 1/32 up the upper gun frame exposed, I’ll add some filler pieces in tomorrow. You’ll also notice the lower part sticks down too far, this will require some trimming to allow room for the planks to land on. I will carefully do this tomorrow. 
 

now I can finish the lower wales as well as the upper counter and begin planking.

Thanks for looking in.

 

JJ

[scrubbyj427]

While waiting for my final QG prints I’ve decided to move up to the upper wales before I finish the lowers. On Portland, the upper wales are not painted black so care has to be taken when planking as they need to look pretty like the rest of the planking. The upper wales are not as thick as the lowers but still marginally thicker than the hull planking, I dug into my nice AYC and cut my strips at .090”. 
 

First off I printed paper templates to locate the upper wale relative to the laser cut  upper “frieze planking”,

once lightly glued on I attached battens above and below the margins of the wales.

Once satisfied with the run I began planking, but first I took a blade and removed the part of the paper template that occupied the location of the upper wale, it’s not needed anymore.

No secrets here, just the Chuck method of tick strips and heat guns until planks fit tightly as they should.

you’ll notice my horrible glue mess I make at the seams, I like to edge glue the planks and I use a light charcoal to simulate caulking, this will all sand off and look tidy when complete.

I’m hoping to have the upper stbd wale completed this coming week and possibly the lower as well. You’ll also notice in the above photo that the lower wale is of low quality wood, this will get painted black obviously so feel free to utilize all those subpar planks you’ve been holding onto all these years😂

 

JJ

Edited July 14 by scrubbyj427