Beavers Prize 1777 by Mike Y - 1:48 - POF - Hahn style

[Mike Y]

Håkan, you are lucky, we have a number of suppliers who sell it (I use Arkowood from Germany). It's not cheap (they sell custom milled sheets (50x500mm) with good surface finish for around 8-10€ for 1-2mm thickness, 13€ for 3mm, 15€ for 5mm, 19€ for 8mm), but not prohibitively expensive considering the size of your models. Beware - once you've tried it - you may be hooked  

Edited January 7, 2021 by Mike Y

[dvm27]

Great planking job, Mike. Dilute sanding sealer works great for me with no change in the color. I use the SIG version.

[druxey]

I used to use sanding sealer as Greg does, but haven't now in some time. I leave natural wood in its natural state, just finished either by scraping or 240 grit paper.  Wood will change color over time anyway, due to light and oxygen in the air. Accept it!

[dvm27]

Actually, Mike, now that I recall I stopped using sanding sealer midway through my Speedwell build based on David's experiences. The 240 finish was enough to give the desired look. All of the plank on frame models in my study have toned down to the same extent whether I used Danish oil, sanding sealer or nothing.

[Mike Y]

Greg, druxey, thank you both for the input!

Will definitely try the "clean" look too  

[Mike Y]

To test the finishes I made some test pieces:
1) Boxwood planking fragment. With a bit of treenails, cross-piece with a glue left over from one side, and a few glue drops specifically planted.
I remember that some finishes highlight the glue drops and any imperfections, so I've made them on purpose
The cross-piece makes it harder to wipe off the finish, and I want to see how the build-up in that corner would look like.
2) Deck structure imitation, with a bit exaggerated curve to see how finish absorbs into diagonal grain. Half-circular piece creates a tiny corner that is hard to clean up, again to test the build-up.
Most of the piece is made using swiss pear (pink-ish), but two parts are in a yellow pear (aka regular pear, but non-steamed), leftover from the original timbering package. I am planning to use different shades (a bit like Albert on his Naiad) and curious to see how different finishes highlight that difference.

This was a fun project of its own, I really enjoyed making them.
It was a good opportunity to test my fancy fret saw. This brand is usually used as a decoration on a background of your woodworking youtube channel, but since I do not have one - I just cut wood with it  

It's quite ok, need to practice more to cut straighter, but the main benefit is quietness - I can slowly cut my pieces while the family is around, while they need to hide somewhere if I fire up a bandsaw.

The common way of cutting the underside of a beam by using a mill is a bit too cumbersome with such tiny pieces, so I just scribe a line and then sand to this line with a small sanding drum:

It was also a good practice in cutting notches. Two marking gauges and very handy, chisel registers in the scribed line and does not slip anywhere. 

The resulting quality was not always good, you can see a few gaps and dings, so this practice run was quite necessary.

Each piece got one coat of finish, non-diluted, just as it says on the box. Excess wiped off more or less immediately with a paper towel.
After a few days, I imitated a spot-fix (e.g. if I need to glue something to a finished part) - scraped away a small spot and re-applied a drop of finish to that area, blending it to the adjacent area. The point is to see how well it blends, if there is a visible difference between that area with two coats as compared to one coat on the rest of the piece.

There was no post-finishing with steel wool - since this would be hard to do on a model, and I'm afraid of tiny metal particles getting stuck in random places and rusting after a while. 
 

[Mike Y]

Finishes that were tested: (the bottle on the left side is a pure tung oil)

Results:

Unfortunately photos can't show all the nuances, I'm not a good photographer  

 

Don't want to make you bored with a full description of each test piece, just the main notes:
1) Be careful with your pure tung oil, it looks like mine started to solidify - the finished piece is full of small shiny glitter-like speckles, and the result is quite uneven. When I finished frames with the same tung oil - there was no such problem, but the oil was fresh.

It is also the darkest of all the finishes.

2) Sanding sealers were hard to apply - they become sticky really fast, and the #7 Rustins Shellac Sealer was so sticky that a lot of paper fibers just got glued right away. As a result, all shellac-based sealers were too blotchy and uneven. Maybe you really need to dilute them, but I did not want to play around with that - the number of possible recipes goes up to infinity, and it's too fiddly to do
The cellulose sealer was the least bad out of them all.

Look on all that hairy fibers that got stuck! Eeew.

3) The leftover glue looks more or less the same for all finishes except tung oil - it makes glue whiter and shinier.
4) Tung oil also makes treenails look a bit thicker, the rest of the finishes have the same effect on treenails.

 

 

As a result, I have two finalists - Danish Oil and Osmo Polyx (hard wax-oil mixture #3062). 
They look very similar, closest to the natural wood colour. Coincidentally they are also the easiest to apply and spot-fix!

Danish oil has a little bit more shine, while Osmo is the matt-est finish of them all. 
I was worried about wiping off Osmo (it is supposed to be sensitive to it, no thick layers should remain). Surprisingly, a thorough inspection with optivisor could not find any problems in tight areas, no build-up or any imperfections.
During the recent years I used it on a number of mini woodworking projects (boxes, pens, etc) and it holds well over time.

 

So, surprisingly, the winner is Osmo Polyx #3062! Danish oil is the second close.
Osmo is a relatively new finish, getting traction in fine woodworking, but I only found a few logs on MSW that mention it. It's not cheap, but a small can would last for a pretty long time. Based on these test results - I really encourage others to try and share what you think!

Edited January 23, 2021 by Mike Y

[Wintergreen]

Excellent posts Mike!

By a quick www search I found a store in NL that currently has the 0,75 l can for just 35€. That is ordinary paint price to me 🙂

 

What tool did you use to apply? Brush or sponge? Airbrush? That would be fancy...

Edited January 24, 2021 by Wintergreen

[Gaetan Bordeleau]

Effectively Mike, it is an excellent post, one of the main reasons, is because you did try them all. I have questions and remarks.

What was your goal with the finishes? What color do you want to get for your model?

 

There are 2 kinds of tung oil, 1 pure and 1 with an additive to dry slower, this way I can keep a bottle for years.

We must always be careful not to have any glue on any surfaces because finishes will not pass through it and it will make a color difference. 

The finish  must always be applied at the last step because most finishes will not accept glue well.

Tung oil is the darkest finish, and this is for this reason that I use it. When applied it does instantly age the wood of 100 years and it gives all the beauty to the wood grain.

Shellac can leave a thick layer which look like to be vitrified and which is very shiny when photographed.

Osmo-polyx: wax oil mixture is not an invention of today. It has been used for few centuries. Alex, the russian makes excellent mixtures with oil , bee wax and even some more  additives depending of the results wanted. By example, you can add bitumen to give a look even more aged  to the wood, turpentine for easier application and so on.

Danish oil, I used it for many years. In comparison with tung oil, it does not look like to be as pure and also if you prefer a lighter coloration, you will use it and I think it was your goal.

Wiping after applying. I would say it is a must especially by the nature of the oils, it is not as easy to spread as paint or something like this.

French polish, I have seen a french guy using it for a modern model ship sail; boat, it was very shiny and very nice to see, but the application method was extremely long and difficult.

For pear wood, I can understand why you chose Osmo-polyx. Do you think that this finish would be the winner with every kind of wood?

For cherry wood, I use the non pure tung oil. I would say for 2 main reasons. It does instantly age the wood of 100 years. Untreated you cannot see the richness of the grain of the cherry wood. By treating it, the magic suddenly appears.

Finally, I did not see any varnish and i think it is a good thing. Varnish are excellent when you want a shiny look as for a violin by example, and this not what we want for as model ship builder.

[Mike Y]

Håkan, Osmo is pretty common in Sweden, I have it in two random local hardware shops, no need to order from other countries.  Plenty of sources online:  https://www.pricerunner.se/sp/osmo-hårdvaxolja-3062.html

For example:  https://www.bygghemma.se/golv-och-vagg/malarfarg-och-tapet/olja-och-bets/hardvaxolja/hardvaxolja-osmo-orginalet-matt-3062/p-449522-427600

 

It is really easy to apply, you can use literally anything to just put it on your part, spread it around with a tool of your liking, and then you have around 3-5min to wipe it off carefuly with a paper towel or a cloth before it gets sticky.

For a full-size woodworking applications it is recommended to use the scotch-brite pad to "get it into the wood", which is not practical on a model. I never had any problems when not using that pad.

It is also easy to store - my can is 3-4 years old, nothing is clumping up or drying up, no film build-up. 

See this video, for example: 

I would not try it with an airbrush - no need, and cleaning it up afterwards would be a giant mess.

 

Gaetan, thanks for the very detailed information!

7 hours ago, Gaetan Bordeleau said:

What was your goal with the finishes? What color do you want to get for your model?

Actually I do not want any major colour change, I just want to add a bit of depth, bring up the grain and have some protection against finger stains. I was considering a non-finished version, but I like the look of a lightly finished wood, just a personal preference. 

I want the finish to look natural - with no visible film/layer and the least amount of sheen. Basically the opposite of a varnish.

 

The tung oil I have is pure (at least it says so on a box), some kind of local fine woodworking / boatbuilding brand. I do not have the original package to show  It behaves exactly as you say - making wood darker, and I like that effect on the frames. It is also showing the grain really well.

 

Of course all finishes are applied before the glue-up, however I know that sometimes I would make a mistake and apply a finish too early, just to add something on top of the part a few years later. Hence the re-application test.

 

7 hours ago, Gaetan Bordeleau said:

For pear wood, I can understand why you chose Osmo-polyx. Do you think that this finish would be the winner with every kind of wood?

No, absolutely not. I already see that finishes are specific to the wood type and an application you have (long grain, cross grain, darker/lighter/etc).

I also see very little difference on boxwood planks, they all look very similar (except a darker tung oil), but on pear the difference is substantial. 

For any other wood the test needs to be done again, and on a test piece more complex than just some random cutoff. Of course, it should be sanded to the same grits as on the model.

I have previously tried Osmo Polyx on Cherry and Black Walnut, and pretty happy with the results. However it was always applied in two coats, which I would not want on a model (the finish ends up too thick for a small scale).

Edited January 24, 2021 by Mike Y

[BANYAN]

Thanks for testing and posting the results Mike; very useful.

 

Much appreciated 

 

Pat

[Mike Y]

The ceiling planking is completed.

Finishing was super easy and I'm happy with the resulting finish.

 

Final result with a natural light: 

 

Not as happy with the overall result. There are some mistakes in the treenail pattern, and some lines are not so smooth and fair on the photos.

Uneven treenails also bug me - even after finishing they look pretty different, some are much darker than the others. It looks like I used different wood and different diameter holes, which is not the case. Would never use bamboo treenails anymore, even if they are easier to make.

 

But luckily that whole area would not be so visible, so no re-do is necessary. I learned a lot from doing it and hope to improve when it's time to plank more exposed areas.

 

So now I'll spend some quiet evening time surrounded by books and plans, trying to make sense of the whole internal arrangement in the hold of the ship It's a real puzzle! As usual, Hahn plans are not so detailed, so I'm looking into various sources for the same period / type of ship and try to map it to the NMM drawing.

 

Edited January 26, 2021 by Mike Y

[druxey]

I think you'll find that after some time, differences in wood color tend to deepen and even out.

[cog]

Very interesting, Mike. Thanks for sharing.

[Gaetan Bordeleau]

22 hours ago, druxey said:

I think you'll find that after some time, differences in wood color tend to deepen and even out.

 

-Inevitably, time will darken the wood color, so no color change is almost impossible, unless you completely block the light of the sun  with a color paint.

-If I understand well, Mike would prefer no wood color change. Does not, that this mean, that the color you apply will change with time?

-If you would know that you can get the final color of the wood with 1 product, would you use it?

[dvm27]

I've had the same issues with bamboo treenails, Mike. I try to keep the same stock together when making and installing them because you can have wide variations on the cut end grain with regards to color.

 

With regards to using a finish there have been many discussions over the years regarding whether some sort of sealer (e.g. a stain or sanding sealer) is necessary to preserve the model. If the model is encased and not in direct sunlight what are we protecting it from? Perhaps that is a different discussion topic.

Edited January 27, 2021 by dvm27

[Mike Y]

Hmm, where was I? What is this thing? 

With an active family life and outdoor activities I barely had energy in the evening to plan the next step of the build. And while kids even nudged me to make some sawdust - the main problem was the planning. Planking does not take much brainpower once the markup is done, but now I need to make mast steps, breast hooks and so on - need to analyse plans, mark out locations, get the necessary dimensions, etc. These details are omitted in the Hahn plans, and I wanted to build the model after the British modifications (including the fore mast that was moved ahead two feet).

Just imagine - once everyone is asleep you open up books and plans, mark and measure and scratch your head, and in no time the brain just says "nah, lets watch some movie and go to sleep" 😇 

Next day you are really worried about mistakes the tired brain might have done, and so you get a mental block and put it on hold.

 

But now I am trying to break that barrier and spend some quality hobby time while family is away for Easter. Feeling very rusty, forgot a lot of things (including the location of some tools) and everything is slower than it was before. Also discovered that my Proxxon disk sander broke entirely (motor is humming, but not moving).

 

It was slow to start before and was a bit unstable (I think I bumped it during an apartment move), but after a couple of years of downtime it failed entirely. Could not find any obvious failure once opened it up, so really hope Byrnes shop would eventually reopen and I can upgrade to the sander I was dreaming about.

Shaping thick parts without it would be quite a challenge...

[Mike Y]

Mast steps are not complicated, but struggling with pattern transfer. 
Feeling like I miss some obvious tricks? Even thought about making a miniature duplicator tool with toothpicks instead of metal pins
Would appreciate your advice!

 

First I tried to make patterns like on a full scale - by gluing small rectangles on a piece of card. That way works great for real boats, but is very awkward and potentially messy on a small scale.
But I like that tiny plastic vernier gauge! Got a few of those to measure spacing inside the hull without scratching it.

 

Then I just traced a frame pattern on a piece of card and eyeballed the other side. That is less complicated than I thought, but takes a lot of fine tuning (counter light helps too). But feels like an art rather than a reliable and repeatable method.

Though should admit - trimming and cutting card is quite satisfying!

Is that how everyone is doing it or is there is an easy way?   

Practicing the quiet modelling (in preparation for the evening sessions) - tried a coping saw instead of a bandsaw. The dust extraction problem solved itself, vacuum hose fits perfectly between the clamps:

Finally - the rough pear blanks are cut and I hope to shape them into beautiful parts in the upcoming days! 
I really aint much, but a little symbolic step towards the healthy hobby routine

[tlevine]

Welcome back!  For templates I will use a combination of taping small pieces of paper together for one side and inserting the paper between the frames for the unplanked side.  Still requires some tweaking, but it compensates for the thickness of the planking and any asymetry between port and starboard.

[John Cheevers]

Welcome back. I really enjoy following this build.

[rlb]

Mike,

I understand the rustiness of starting again.   My own modeling has been periods of good work, then long periods (sometimes years) of inactivity.   It takes a lot to get back into the right mental frame to work, especially when you are working on something that requires checking sources, calculating things, planning the order of tasks, not to mention the concentration of doing the actual hand (or machine) work.   When I start back up sometimes I can only work for 10 or 15 minutes at a time, for a few days, at least, until I build up my modeling stamina!

 

Good luck on your progress!

 

Ron  

Edited April 1 by rlb

[gjdale]

Great to see you back at this build Mike.

[Mike Y]

Thanks everyone for your support! Ron, can definitely recognise that  

 

20 hours ago, tlevine said:

Welcome back!  For templates I will use a combination of taping small pieces of paper together for one side and inserting the paper between the frames for the unplanked side.  Still requires some tweaking, but it compensates for the thickness of the planking and any asymetry between port and starboard.

Toni, thanks, will try that approach too. Inserting a pattern between the frames is a nice benefit of keeping one side unplanked, but haven't tried taping smaller pieces together.

[Erik W]

Mike,  I'm glad to see you're back at it!  Your build was always one of my favorites.  I have the Hahn book on Ships of the American Revolution, so have always had an interest in Hahn's designs.  I too know the feeling of life getting in the way of my build.  Back when I took what I thought would be a short break from my Cheerful build, I had no idea it would be 6 1/2 years before I started working on it again.  When we're working on something that requires such precision and concentration, it's hard to have the energy a lot of times at the end of a full and busy day.  That said, I've always had the saying, action breeds motivation.  Sometimes if you can just find a little energy to sit down and start, the motivation follows.

 

Erik

[dvm27]

I use small pieces of index card held together with white glue. Just keep building them using small pieces of card. On some patterns like the mast step I'll have assembled 7 or 8 pieces of card. The unplanked side is a bit tricky. You can either extend the bulkhead all the way to the frame or stop where the planking would have been (leaving a gap). See Chuck's  Speedwell below. As you'll find, it is much easier to leave a gap then achieve a perfect mating with the planking!

https://modelshipworld.com/uploads/monthly_2024_03/forecastlebulkhead5.jpg.9ce18fb61c7a32f2595493a29fab12d3.jpg

[Mike Y]

Erik, thank you! Your build is one of my inspirations too  

 

Greg, thanks, that is a clean shot! Though so far it was actually easy to sneak on a good fit, since with wide Hahn spacing and no chocks it is easy to put a part to the edge of the next frame and mark a clear line. But time will tell  

[Mike Y]

Found my rhythm and finally produced first parts!
Admittedly got carried away with the shape of these mast posts, they are supposed to be much more boxy-looking and utilitarian. I was inspired by a few other models with very elegant posts For the same aesthetic reasons iron bolts are omitted and edges are aligned with the run of the planking.
I really love the look of curvy pear parts, big fat black dots would spoil it a bit. And after all these parts would be hidden deep in the hold.

It is more labor intense without a disk sander, so shaping and beveling involved a lot of chiseling. Though it is a pleasure with a nice and honed chisel.

The most pleasuring moment was chamfering these edges with some relaxing background music Super happy, the joy is back!

 

Finished with my new go-to finish Osmo Polyx 3062. Contemplating leaving smaller parts unfinished later during the build, but these are right next to the dark shiny pear frames, would be too much of a contrast. 

Before and after the finishing, side by side:

 

In the hull (dry fitted). Quite ashamed with the quality of planking at the bow, who left all these giant gaps? 🫣 Did not look that bad on photos from 2021...

No big deal, it only means I should be more careful next time. Also spotted an obvious misplacement of the top breast hook notch, it was the same guys fault. I was too young back then  

 

[Tigersteve]

Wow! 

Steve

[jdbondy]

I think I have that same small chisel you are using, from Lee Valley! What a great tool.

[AON]

Like the hot sauce... I use it everywhere too!