Bristol Pilot Cutter by michael mott - 1/8 scale - POF

[vaddoc]

2 hours ago, michael mott said:

Many annealings and bashings later with a leather mallet

 

                                                            

Just caught up Michael, the things I read are out of this world! Such a great pleasure to follow your work!

Now, I do get that copper annealed is soft and can bend, stretch and be worked easily until it work-hardens. However, from the stage above left how did you avoid dog ears and the edges folding? Is it possible to re-distribute and shrink the metal with the hammer?

[G.L.]

Michael, is there something you can't make? 😵

[wefalck]

Now you have to do the copper pots for the pantry as well

[michael mott]

8 hours ago, vaddoc said:

However, from the stage above left how did you avoid dog ears and the edges folding? Is it possible to re-distribute and shrink the metal with the hammer?

Hi Vaddoc, I was not able to avoid "dog ears" as you say. I had to trim the edges a few times to remove excess material as it closed up Also I used some heavy needle nosed pliers a fer times to flatten out a couple of areas at the corners that were beginning to fold. I do not have the proper tools for serious metal smithing in a jewelers sense, so the final form is a bit crude. Sorry I did not take a few more pictures of some of the steps especially the trimming, to remove the excess, it was a lot of concentration during the work.

 

6 hours ago, G.L. said:

Michael, is there something you can't make? 😵

Oh yes lots of stuff, And that is what is so great about this site I learn so much from all the wonderful things that the other members do.

 

5 hours ago, wefalck said:

Now you have to do the copper pots for the pantry as well

Oh oh.... I see another gauntlet....

 

I was looking at the web regarding stoves and it seems like the one in Integrity is a Taylor Stove there are some good photographs, it was also interesting reading about the pros and cons of the different fuel types, Old Style Alcohol, New Style Pressure Alcohol , plus the kerosene /diesel types and the LPG gas ones.

 

Michael

[EricWilliamMarshall]

On 2/24/2021 at 2:18 PM, michael mott said:

The document I used for my tracing of Pauline's hull lines is this one. I would love to get a hard copy of this thesis.

Another path may be contact Dr. Merwin directly. According to LinkedIn, she now works in NY. Here is a link to her contact info: http://www.nysm.nysed.gov/research-collections/archaeology/crsp/contact 

 

I also vote for your scale version of a working Bramah lock with a set of keys to leave on counter in the galley. The early version only has 12 springs internally!

[BANYAN]

8 hours ago, michael mott said:

.... so the final form is a bit crude.

If you call that crude I still feel ever so inadequate with my level of skills.   I have had to remind myself on several occasions that I was looking at a model and not the real cabin.  Exceptional work Michael.

 

cheers

 

Pat

Edited March 14, 2021 by BANYAN

[Roger Pellett]

Michael,

 

Your upcoming decision about the boat’s cook stove jogged me to check out L. Francis Herreshoff’s opinion on the subject.  When it came to cruising sailboats he had an opinion about everything and he argued that simple is better.  He even refused to include toilets on dome of his designs arguing that a good cedar bucket was sufficient.  In fact on one of his designs, he located the cedar bucket with a guy sitting on it.

 

Anyhow, I dug out my copy of The Writings of L. Francis Herreshoff and sure enough there is a chapter discussing the cabin plan for a small cruising sailboat.  He recommends the Wilcox Crittenden’s Sea Cook Jr. stove.  They also made a two burner Sea Cook stove.  If you Google Sea Cook Stove, you’ll find a lot of pictures of these.  They ran on pressurized alcohol.

 

Roger

 

 

 

 

 

[Bob Cleek]

I think the decision as to a stove is going in large measure to depend upon the date at which the model is portrayed. She's definitely going to be "finestkind" on all fittings and equipment, so you need to know the "when" of it all. If earlier, an iron solid fuel wood and coal stove would be called for. Later, an alcohol or kerosene stove might be appropriate. Modernly, a propane gas stove would be found on such a fine yacht. She would seem too small to carry a separate generator capable of powering an electric stove. 

 

Just my two cents' worth.

[Roger Pellett]

As far as I am concerned, Michael’s model is timeless.

[michael mott]

19 hours ago, Bob Cleek said:

I think the decision as to a stove is going in large measure to depend upon the date at which the model is portrayed

Yes this is interesting, The model is really a vehicle for my learning about model ships and boats.

 

19 hours ago, Roger Pellett said:

As far as I am concerned, Michael’s model is timeless.

And in reality it is just that, because I am using materials and ideas from all sort of times and styles. 

 

I spent some time today discussing the bashed up sink with the owner and he said "well I know we are on a budget but its not that tight, cant you find a better sink than that."

So looking around I found this one

 

 

Michael

 

[druxey]

Well beaten, Michael!  That was not an easy shape to raise. Copper looks much nicer than plastic, don't you think?

[Bob Cleek]

At the risk of precipitating a complete nervous breakdown at this point... 

 

I'm just curious. Is that sink's drain well above the waterline at maximum heeling angle or no? If not, you'll have to equip the sink drain with a check valve, siphon breaking loop, and a pump to empty it out after use. Will the pump be manual or electric?

[michael mott]

Well here is the truth about the new sink.

First task was to start with a new former

 

And cut a new sheet of copper .031"

 

After laying out the cuts use jewelers saw.

 

Then without any annealing begin the folds

 

 

 

At this point I needed to do some cutting and used a small nibbler

 

 

Then the trimmed edges need to be cleaned up this was done by first unfolding the metal a little

 

 

Then using a bit of wood as a guide filed the edges.

 

The refolded and wired the seams together  and used easyflo silver solder to join the seams. My silver soldering skills still leave a lot to be desired but I am improving.

 

and it looks better than the first one.

 

 

I would do it differently if I had to do it again, making only clean corner joints...... but that's for another boat.

 

Michael

 

 

[michael mott]

1 hour ago, Bob Cleek said:

siphon breaking loop

I'll have to wrap my head around this one!  Just a never ending list of details...will it ever end?😉

 

Michael

[WalrusGuy]

7 minutes ago, michael mott said:

Well here is the truth about the new sink.

First task was to start with a new former

 

And cut a new sheet of copper .031"

 

After laying out the cuts use jewelers saw.

 

Then without any annealing begin the folds

 

 

 

At this point I needed to do some cutting and used a small nibbler

 

 

Then the trimmed edges need to be cleaned up this was done by first unfolding the metal a little

 

 

Then using a bit of wood as a guide filed the edges.

 

The refolded and wired the seams together  and used easyflo silver solder to join the seams. My silver soldering skills still leave a lot to be desired but I am improving.

 

and it looks better than the first one.

 

 

I would do it differently if I had to do it again, making only clean corner joints...... but that's for another boat.

 

Michael

 

 

Thank you so much for writing up such a detailed log. I never knew on how powerful a jeweler's saw can be. Are you using the same blades as the ones to cut wood? Or are they completely different for metalwork?

[michael mott]

5 minutes ago, WalrusGuy said:

Are you using the same blades as the ones to cut wood? Or are they completely different for metalwork?

It depends on the thickness of the material and the number of teeth. The coarser blades are generally easier for the wood. In this case the blade was fine enough to also cut the copper because it was sharp and had not become dull from cutting metal before.

 

This graphic representation shows the .031 copper and the #1 jewelers blade that has 47 teeth per inch next to the edge of the metal there need to be at least 2 teeth engaging with the metal or the blade will catch and there is a possibility of ripping off a tooth and or snapping the blade.

 

 

I hope this answers your question. I also have some #8/0, #5/0, #3/0 The #8/0 is the finest.

 

Michael

[Bob Cleek]

3 hours ago, michael mott said:

I'll have to wrap my head around this one!  Just a never ending list of details...will it ever end?😉

 

Michael

 

Yes, well, it may not matter if it won't be seen, but any drain located below the waterline which discharges through a through-hull fitting located below the waterline needs a vented loop between the fixture (usually a sink or head) which runs inside the vessel to a height sufficiently above the waterline to prevent the water from simply pouring into the boat up through the head or sink drain that is also below the waterline. Modernly, check valves are also employed, but reliance solely on a check valve which can fail simply by a some obstruction in the valve preventing its closing isn't considered prudent.

 

Here's what it looks like on a head installation:

 

 

The Bristol cutters and similar types are fairly deep drafted and it's not uncommon for their head and galley sink drains to be well below the heeled waterline. Head outlets are almost always below the waterline in small craft. The vented loop on your model's sink wouldn't necessarily be visible, being concealed behind the joinerwork, but any sink below the waterline at any angle of heel will require at least two pumps, one for the fresh water supply and one for emptying the sink, since the water isn't going to flow uphill. (On older well-found classic vessels, a third pump or faucet may have been present to supply salt water supply for washing dishes, etc.) Of course, modernly, where a pressurized electrical pump water system is installed, the sink faucet will look no different than a residential or recreational vehicle installation.

Edited March 16, 2021 by Bob Cleek

[wefalck]

Talking about sawing thin sheet-metal: many years ago I built a kind of POB model of a steam-tug by constructing the keel part and bulkheads from 0.5 mm and 0.25 mm brass sheet respectively. At that time it did not occur to me to laminate the brass onto some plywood (and I would have considered that wasteful, but was struggling even with the fine sawblades I had. I then discovered that putting the sawbladed upside down into the saw worked very well.

 

I was joking about the copper pans in the pantry - I think one should not turn this kind of model into a floating dollhouse.

[michael mott]

7 hours ago, Bob Cleek said:

The Bristol cutters and similar types are fairly deep drafted and it's not uncommon for their head and galley sink drains to be well below the heeled waterline. Head outlets are almost always below the waterline in small craft. The vented loop on your model's sink wouldn't necessarily be visible, being concealed behind the joinerwork,

Bob thanks for the detailed information regarding the through hull outlets and the siphon loops. I had not really thought about this aspect of our modern small cruise boats let alone the older craft.

 

4 hours ago, wefalck said:

I was joking about the copper pans in the pantry - I think one should not turn this kind of model into a floating dollhouse.

I agree...But....  but my grandaughter  would not.

Seriously though The idea is to be able to show what can be seen relatively easily and a few things that need a little searching but still visible with perhaps a small dental type mirror. I do want to move on to the next project before I am too old to have fun.

 

Thank you to everyone who is following along and showing their appreciation in one way or another.

 

Michael

 

[WalrusGuy]

9 hours ago, michael mott said:

It depends on the thickness of the material and the number of teeth. The coarser blades are generally easier for the wood. In this case the blade was fine enough to also cut the copper because it was sharp and had not become dull from cutting metal before.

 

This graphic representation shows the .031 copper and the #1 jewelers blade that has 47 teeth per inch next to the edge of the metal there need to be at least 2 teeth engaging with the metal or the blade will catch and there is a possibility of ripping off a tooth and or snapping the blade.

 

 

I hope this answers your question. I also have some #8/0, #5/0, #3/0 The #8/0 is the finest.

 

Michael

Thank you for taking the time to explain, Michael. The schematic also helps me to understand clearly 🙂

[Bob Cleek]

6 hours ago, michael mott said:

I do want to move on to the next project before I am too old to have fun.

That's the beauty of modeling: You're never too old to have fun doing it! 

[Keith Black]

26 minutes ago, Bob Cleek said:

You're never too old to have fun doing it

 And hopefully never too old to learn something new. 

[MAGIC's Craig]

Michael:  While going through some of our sailing photos, we came across a card showing the painting  on the December, 1934 Yachting Monthly cover by F. B. Harnack entitled, "Dawn".  Not sure, of course, whether you have it in your collection of "research" materials. It struck us as an image which could well have been composed while sailing aboard your lovely cutter model, so we send it along for any enjoyment you might find in the setting.

 

Our best, 

Craig and Vicky Johnsen

ex schooner MAGIC

[michael mott]

Thank you Craig for your kindness in thinking of me.

What a lovely image, looks like it might be starting to liven up a bit judging by the water.

 

Michael

[rwiederrich]

Michael...as usual I am totally impressed with your metal work.......

 

Your project is moving along smoothly.  What craftmanship.

 

Rob

[Lilleyen]

On 2/24/2013 at 9:46 AM, michael mott said:

John you mean like this.

 

 

I also did a better job on the splicing after revisiting the eye slice that Remco did.

 

Longridge talks about passing the rope through a flame of a spirit lamp to get rid of the fluff, it is amazing what the camera sees that i can't.

 

I had fun with the 4 inch block it has a working sheave but I couldn't find my jar of miniature bearings so opted for a simple shaft through the brass.

 

 

I will do a little more experimenting with the strops, once i get it all figured out I will be able to set up some jigs.

 

Michael

Beautiful work for sure.

I have a question though.

Won't the brass rub off on the ropes turning them black eventually?

[Bitao]

Because my daily work is concentrated in my studio, there is almost no Internet access (more often I get annoyed at not being able to open more pictures at speed) . Today I stumbled across this wonderful piece of work! I'm so excited! I’m sorry. I just saw it. I'm encouraged by your attention to detail and your precision. I wish I could build a yacht like yours one day! Thank you for showing me so many details, and for giving me some inspiration.

[rwiederrich]

How are things coming along Michael?   Any progress in the kitchen?

 

I was just reminded....not to be pushy, but did you ever get that piece of *Lightning* deck frame cut?

 

Rob

[michael mott]

To everyone who is following along on this build. I am unable to do any modelwork for a while, as I am waiting to get some Carpel Tunnel surgery done on my right hand. It has been steadily getting worst over the last 6 months or so, and I finally realized that I need to get it looked at. The neuropathy report used words like severe and immediate in it. My GP has sent letters to three surgeons in hopes that we can get it seen to more quickly.

 

I am wearing a rigid wrist brace which is helping to keep me from sneaking into the model shop to work, which is detrimental to my future well being in my right hand.

I did have Carpel tunnel surgery in both hand a few years back.

 

And Rob I have not forgotten your piece of the Lightning.

 

regards Michael

[rwiederrich]

59 minutes ago, michael mott said:

To everyone who is following along on this build. I am unable to do any modelwork for a while, as I am waiting to get some Carpel Tunnel surgery done on my right hand. It has been steadily getting worst over the last 6 months or so, and I finally realized that I need to get it looked at. The neuropathy report used words like severe and immediate in it. My GP has sent letters to three surgeons in hopes that we can get it seen to more quickly.

 

I am wearing a rigid wrist brace which is helping to keep me from sneaking into the model shop to work, which is detrimental to my future well being in my right hand.

I did have Carpel tunnel surgery in both hand a few years back.

 

And Rob I have not forgotten your piece of the Lightning.

 

regards Michael

Michael…..I only hope you get well soon .  I too had carpel tunnel surgery myself.  I had a full recovery,  and boy it corrected a very painful condition. I pray you recover soon.   I completely appreciate you offer……please do not complicate you condition for my collection’s sake.  Get well.