captainbob Posted March 23, 2014 Share #841 Posted March 23, 2014 Thanks for the lessons. Bob Quote Every build is a learning experience. Current build: SS_ Mariefred Completed builds: US Coast Guard Pequot Friendship-sloop, Schooner Lettie-G.-Howard, Spray, Grand-Banks-dory, a gaff rigged yawl, HOGA (YT-146), Int'l Dragon Class II, Two Edwardian Launches In the Gallery: Catboat, International-Dragon-Class, Spray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usedtosail Posted March 23, 2014 Share #842 Posted March 23, 2014 Yes, thank you Michael. That was very informative. Quote - Tom - Current Build: Vanguard Speedy Completed: Vanguard Duchess of Kingston, Stove Project, Ships Wheel Project, NRG Capstan Project, Billings Half Moon, Dumas Chris Craft 1938 27' Triple Cockpit Barrel Back, Panart Santa Lucia , Model Shipways Constitution , MS Bounty Launch , HMS Beagle Member: Nautical Research Guild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael mott Posted March 24, 2014 Author Share #843 Posted March 24, 2014 Thanks S.os, Nils, Bob, Used to sail, for your kind remarks, and for all those who added likes. The last two pieces of the main-sheet tackle the cleats for the port and starboard main sheets. These were rough milled with a 1/2 inch end mill and a 1/4 inch ball end mill, then drilled for the # 0 deck screws, I also made a countersink out of some 5/32 drill rod because I had nothing small enough to get to the hole past the top part of the cleat. A series of files were used to shape the cleats the following pictures are pretty self explanatory. Here I am showing the large half round for shaping the top of the cleat, the flat file has a safe edge, it was handy for supporting the file with my fingers when shaping the bolt tabs The finished rough filed cleat ready for the fine needle files and for the emery and steel wool All mounted, I did have to reshape the heads of the #0 countersunk wood screws a little. I made them into quasi oval heads by setting up a wood mandrel in the chuck to hold the screws while a very fine file rounded the tops and reduced the diameter a few thou. Now to deal with the rudder. Michael PeteB, Calhoun Zabel, DSiemens and 13 others 16 Quote Current builds Bristol Pilot Cutter 1:8; Skipjack 19 foot Launch 1:8; Herreshoff Buzzards Bay 14 1:8 Other projects Pilot Cutter 1:500 ; Maria, 1:2 Now just a memory Future model Gill Smith Catboat Pauline 1:8 Finished projects A Bassett Lowke steamship Albertic 1:100 Anything you can imagine is possible, when you put your mind to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Lad Posted March 24, 2014 Share #844 Posted March 24, 2014 More excellent work, Michael! John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtaylor Posted March 24, 2014 Share #845 Posted March 24, 2014 It continues to be amazing, Michael. Almost too clean and precise... Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bedford Posted March 24, 2014 Share #846 Posted March 24, 2014 It always intrigues me how you see these shapes inside the stock material. I guess that comes witha lot of machining experience. Steve Quote Ships built :- Schooner for Port Jackson Thermoplylae Bluenose II Full size Tammie Norrie dinghy 1:8 scale Miss Caroline, model of the full size boat I built Under construction :- Royal Caroline, this one is special as it is in memory of my 13 year old daughter, Caroline who passed away in 2005 Miane three masted schooner R/C, scratch build (on hold) Charles W Morgan (on hold) Scratch designed and built R/C Mahogany and Walnut speedboat (on hold) In the que :- S.T. Waratah, maybe! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DORIS Posted March 24, 2014 Share #847 Posted March 24, 2014 OMG, the realism of your work is just outstanding. Great looking model, it is like a real ship. Most beautiful.Kind regardsDoris Quote Doris Current build: HMS Royal Katherine 1664 from card Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainbob Posted March 24, 2014 Share #848 Posted March 24, 2014 Beautiful, as always. Bob Quote Every build is a learning experience. Current build: SS_ Mariefred Completed builds: US Coast Guard Pequot Friendship-sloop, Schooner Lettie-G.-Howard, Spray, Grand-Banks-dory, a gaff rigged yawl, HOGA (YT-146), Int'l Dragon Class II, Two Edwardian Launches In the Gallery: Catboat, International-Dragon-Class, Spray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael mott Posted March 24, 2014 Author Share #849 Posted March 24, 2014 (edited) Twister said With a 3:1 purchase that's going to require a considerable length of sheet pull and I therefore don't think a standard winchdrum or arm type sailwinch servo is going to fit the bill. This is an area that I have been ruminating over for some time now. Bob said As for sail winch I saw a 5 foot boat, with big sails, where the owner used a reversing screwdriver/drill with a torque control for the winch. Bob I think that there has to be a way to make the main sheet work in a similar way to the full size practice. This is a schematic of the mainsail sheets and a clearer PDF kingfisher main sail control.pdf I am thinking that if I have 2 drums that are 6 inches in diameter or 2 6 inch that are stacked with the boom centred and three turns of sheet on each drum and that both drums run in sync so that both port and starboard sheets can let out at the same time then I lessen the distance for the sheet on either side by half. Michael Edited March 24, 2014 by michael mott Quote Current builds Bristol Pilot Cutter 1:8; Skipjack 19 foot Launch 1:8; Herreshoff Buzzards Bay 14 1:8 Other projects Pilot Cutter 1:500 ; Maria, 1:2 Now just a memory Future model Gill Smith Catboat Pauline 1:8 Finished projects A Bassett Lowke steamship Albertic 1:100 Anything you can imagine is possible, when you put your mind to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael mott Posted March 24, 2014 Author Share #850 Posted March 24, 2014 (edited) I rigged up a couple of drums to test my thoughts about this, I used the camera to make a video clip here The drum is only about 4 inches in diameter I used a couple of discs of oak left over from a project they rotate 6 times from centre to full swing. I think I will be able to make this work, In all my sailing I have never used a main sheet rig like this so I was unfamiliar with the actual mechanics of the way it would work. I full scale I would think that the double set of cleats gives the person working the sheet more control by letting out one or other sides for when the added leverage is needed and then using both at the same time lets out the main faster. That is the way it appears to me anyway. The deck cleats did double duty as guides, but I think a couple of fair-leads would be useful I am thinking that for display the sheets can be coiled up and when sailing they could be led into the cabin in some simple way. Michael Edited March 24, 2014 by michael mott newbuilder101, themadchemist and mtaylor 3 Quote Current builds Bristol Pilot Cutter 1:8; Skipjack 19 foot Launch 1:8; Herreshoff Buzzards Bay 14 1:8 Other projects Pilot Cutter 1:500 ; Maria, 1:2 Now just a memory Future model Gill Smith Catboat Pauline 1:8 Finished projects A Bassett Lowke steamship Albertic 1:100 Anything you can imagine is possible, when you put your mind to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBlack Posted March 25, 2014 Share #851 Posted March 25, 2014 Michael, That's seems to work pretty smoothly. I think you've solved the issue. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtaylor Posted March 25, 2014 Share #852 Posted March 25, 2014 A very nice test... well done. Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael mott Posted March 25, 2014 Author Share #853 Posted March 25, 2014 Steve, thanks for your thoughts about my machining. Doris it is always an honour to receive your praise. Bob, sometimes I wish you lived just around the corner so I could talk to you about design issues, your experience would be very informative. Tom, thanks and yes I think it is on the right track. Mark thanks, each day I realize how much more work and testing there is so it is really nice when they work out. today I also managed to get a start on the reworking of the rudder shaft top. I machined a 1 1/2 inch length of 1/2 inch diameter brass rod to a dome end and bored out the inside to fit the copper shaft and also to fit a piece of square brass tube then slipped a piece of 1/4 inch brass tube in after these were soft soldered into the hole then the cross hole was drilled and tapped 4x40 for the yoke fixing screws. The body of the yoke is just rough machined at this point and the apple wood tiller will need to be replaced with a new one because it is about a 3/64 too narrow. so some masking tape thickener to see how the length looks. I like the way it is articulated now so will finalize the shaping of the yoke tomorrow. I will make a wood shoe to clean up the transition from the deck to blend in the angles. Michael mtaylor, hexnut, realworkingsailor and 9 others 12 Quote Current builds Bristol Pilot Cutter 1:8; Skipjack 19 foot Launch 1:8; Herreshoff Buzzards Bay 14 1:8 Other projects Pilot Cutter 1:500 ; Maria, 1:2 Now just a memory Future model Gill Smith Catboat Pauline 1:8 Finished projects A Bassett Lowke steamship Albertic 1:100 Anything you can imagine is possible, when you put your mind to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bedford Posted March 25, 2014 Share #854 Posted March 25, 2014 Never mind Bob, I wish I lived around the corner from you so I could learn more. That works beautifully. Steve Quote Ships built :- Schooner for Port Jackson Thermoplylae Bluenose II Full size Tammie Norrie dinghy 1:8 scale Miss Caroline, model of the full size boat I built Under construction :- Royal Caroline, this one is special as it is in memory of my 13 year old daughter, Caroline who passed away in 2005 Miane three masted schooner R/C, scratch build (on hold) Charles W Morgan (on hold) Scratch designed and built R/C Mahogany and Walnut speedboat (on hold) In the que :- S.T. Waratah, maybe! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popeye the sailor Posted March 25, 2014 Share #855 Posted March 25, 2014 ..or rather you could make it a double drum....top for port, bottom for starboard. making sure that both sides have equal tension, would insure that the boom would swing smoother, without the threat of it swinging back wards. in this way, one line would be coiling up, while the other is being let out. nice video .......cool to see it in action. Quote I yam wot I yam! finished builds: Billings Nordkap 476 / Billings Cux 87 / Billings Mary Ann / Billings AmericA - reissue Billings Regina - bashed into the Susan A / Andrea Gail 1:20 - semi scratch w/ Billing instructions M&M Fun Ship - semi scratch build / Gundalow - scratch build / Jeanne D'Arc - Heller Phylly C & Denny-Zen - the Lobsie twins - bashed & semi scratch dual build Billing T78 Norden in dry dock: Billing's Gothenborg 1:100 / Billing's Boulogne Etaples 1:20 Billing's Half Moon 1:40 - some scratch required Revell U.S.S. United States 1:96 - plastic/ wood modified / Academy Titanic 1:400 Trawler Syborn - semi scratch / Holiday Harbor dual build - semi scratch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainbob Posted March 25, 2014 Share #856 Posted March 25, 2014 Michael, your drum method is very well thought out. By pulling on both sides at the same time you only need half the number of turns. Don’t forget to put some sort of stop on the drum. When the sail is all the way “in” the drum needs to stop even if your finger does not release fast enough. And when the sail is all the way “out”, if the drum does not stop you end up with tangled line. I always had mine stop just before the boom hit the shrouds. A purchased sail winch has a mechanical stop built into the gearing inside the winch. Maybe you can do it with gearing also. Ah, yes. There are a lot of people on the forum I would like to live near. But better the forum than nothing. Bob Quote Every build is a learning experience. Current build: SS_ Mariefred Completed builds: US Coast Guard Pequot Friendship-sloop, Schooner Lettie-G.-Howard, Spray, Grand-Banks-dory, a gaff rigged yawl, HOGA (YT-146), Int'l Dragon Class II, Two Edwardian Launches In the Gallery: Catboat, International-Dragon-Class, Spray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael mott Posted March 25, 2014 Author Share #857 Posted March 25, 2014 (edited) Denis wrote in this way, one line would be coiling up, while the other is being let out. Hi Denis, after my test I discovered that this does not work for the following reason. 1 There is no fixed position of the sheet to the boom. 2 It is only when one end of the sheet is fixed , ie cleated or a winch stopped that the boom can be let out or pulled in. and this is where the triple purchase gives the crew member the extra advantage of the triple purchase for fine adjustment. 3 If I were to do that then the number of turns for either side of the centre would be doubled. to let the sheet out fully. on either drum. 4 if one is coiling up and the other being let out the the position of the boom does not change, it would only change with a differential speed of the two drums which in my limited view would greatly increase the complexity of the controlling a transmitter even if it was computer programmed. For all the reasons stated I think that having both drums moving simultaneously and in the same direction will be adequate. of course the test was under very false and controlled conditions I am looking forward to trying the test with a sail bent to the spars and a light breeze to see how the sail snaps past centre as the boat crosses the line of wind. I will do this test on dry land using a turntable of some sort. Bob we must have been posting at the same time. Thanks for your thoughts about the stops, I agree that there will need to be some form of mechanical stop at both ends. A definite stop with a clutch rather than a micro switch which can have overriding effects due to the incoming speed of the switch riser on the drum Michael Edited March 25, 2014 by michael mott popeye the sailor, newbuilder101 and mtaylor 3 Quote Current builds Bristol Pilot Cutter 1:8; Skipjack 19 foot Launch 1:8; Herreshoff Buzzards Bay 14 1:8 Other projects Pilot Cutter 1:500 ; Maria, 1:2 Now just a memory Future model Gill Smith Catboat Pauline 1:8 Finished projects A Bassett Lowke steamship Albertic 1:100 Anything you can imagine is possible, when you put your mind to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael mott Posted March 25, 2014 Author Share #858 Posted March 25, 2014 Oh dear its a shame it doesnt work as you hoped - I loved the video !! Spyglass I am not sure I understand your comment the way it is working is the way I thought it would work. I'm happy you liked the video. Michael Quote Current builds Bristol Pilot Cutter 1:8; Skipjack 19 foot Launch 1:8; Herreshoff Buzzards Bay 14 1:8 Other projects Pilot Cutter 1:500 ; Maria, 1:2 Now just a memory Future model Gill Smith Catboat Pauline 1:8 Finished projects A Bassett Lowke steamship Albertic 1:100 Anything you can imagine is possible, when you put your mind to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bedford Posted March 25, 2014 Share #859 Posted March 25, 2014 One thing I got from the video is a much better realisation of the size of the model, she will be magnificent under sail Quote Ships built :- Schooner for Port Jackson Thermoplylae Bluenose II Full size Tammie Norrie dinghy 1:8 scale Miss Caroline, model of the full size boat I built Under construction :- Royal Caroline, this one is special as it is in memory of my 13 year old daughter, Caroline who passed away in 2005 Miane three masted schooner R/C, scratch build (on hold) Charles W Morgan (on hold) Scratch designed and built R/C Mahogany and Walnut speedboat (on hold) In the que :- S.T. Waratah, maybe! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Lad Posted March 25, 2014 Share #860 Posted March 25, 2014 I'm staying out of the RC control discussions as it's a subject I know nothing about, but for those who've mentioned it, we do live close to each other - we're only a computer away! John captainbob and mtaylor 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJSoane Posted March 25, 2014 Share #861 Posted March 25, 2014 Michael, I keep forgetting that you are actually going to sail this. A whole new set of complexities! Mark Quote Current build: HMS Bellona 74, ca. 1760, 1:64 http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/196-hms-bellona-by-sjsoane-scale-164-1760-as-designed/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newbuilder101 Posted March 26, 2014 Share #862 Posted March 26, 2014 Great demonstration on the video - looks like everything works very well! I am enjoying watching this little cutter evolve into a full fledged sailing vessel! Quote Sherry Every goodbye is the birth of a memory... Current Build: San Felipe Finished Builds: Mayflower Build Log Gallery: Mayflower Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael mott Posted March 26, 2014 Author Share #863 Posted March 26, 2014 Steve, yes it is rather bigger than a lot of the models on the forum. John, sometimes I think I should stay out of the RC conversations as well. Mark, sometimes I think that I should forget about sailing her.... but then I would always wonder. Sherry, thanks, I like the term full fledged, conjures up thoughts of flight and wind. This evening I did a little more work on the tiller, after doing a few sketches this morning to get a better sense of the shape. the next step in shaping the yoke on the mill and the new Lilac tiller, I am looking forward to the fine work on the lilac it is such a wonderful wood to work with and has the aroma of aromatic cedar. and is very fine grained with purplish streaking. Michael avsjerome2003, Jay 1, druxey and 14 others 17 Quote Current builds Bristol Pilot Cutter 1:8; Skipjack 19 foot Launch 1:8; Herreshoff Buzzards Bay 14 1:8 Other projects Pilot Cutter 1:500 ; Maria, 1:2 Now just a memory Future model Gill Smith Catboat Pauline 1:8 Finished projects A Bassett Lowke steamship Albertic 1:100 Anything you can imagine is possible, when you put your mind to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usedtosail Posted March 26, 2014 Share #864 Posted March 26, 2014 You don't see too much lilac wood used in these models. I am impressed. Quote - Tom - Current Build: Vanguard Speedy Completed: Vanguard Duchess of Kingston, Stove Project, Ships Wheel Project, NRG Capstan Project, Billings Half Moon, Dumas Chris Craft 1938 27' Triple Cockpit Barrel Back, Panart Santa Lucia , Model Shipways Constitution , MS Bounty Launch , HMS Beagle Member: Nautical Research Guild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainbob Posted March 26, 2014 Share #865 Posted March 26, 2014 The brass looks much better. Bob Quote Every build is a learning experience. Current build: SS_ Mariefred Completed builds: US Coast Guard Pequot Friendship-sloop, Schooner Lettie-G.-Howard, Spray, Grand-Banks-dory, a gaff rigged yawl, HOGA (YT-146), Int'l Dragon Class II, Two Edwardian Launches In the Gallery: Catboat, International-Dragon-Class, Spray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirabell61 Posted March 26, 2014 Share #866 Posted March 26, 2014 Steve, yes it is rather bigger than a lot of the models on the forum. John, sometimes I think I should stay out of the RC conversations as well. Mark, sometimes I think that I should forget about sailing her.... but then I would always wonder. Sherry, thanks, I like the term full fledged, conjures up thoughts of flight and wind. This evening I did a little more work on the tiller, after doing a few sketches this morning to get a better sense of the shape. kingfisher 004x800.jpg the next step in shaping the yoke on the mill IMG_2799x800.jpg and the new Lilac tiller, I am looking forward to the fine work on the lilac it is such a wonderful wood to work with and has the aroma of aromatic cedar. and is very fine grained with purplish streaking. IMG_2803x800.jpg IMG_2805x800.jpg Michael Beautiful Michael, you are realy resembling your "actual dream cutter" in a splendid done model, I would wish to own such a boat in reality... Nils captainbob 1 Quote Current builds -Lightship Elbe 1 Completed - Steamship Ergenstrasse ex Laker Corsicana 1918- scale 1:87 scratchbuild - "Zeesboot" heritage wooden fishing small craft around 1870, POB clinker scratch build scale 1:24 - Pilot Schooner # 5 ELBE ex Wanderbird, scale 1:50 scratchbuild - Mississippi Sterwheelsteamer built as christmapresent for grandson modified kit build - Chebec "Eagle of Algier" 1753--scale 1:48-POB-(scratchbuild) "SS Kaiser Wilhelm der Grosse" four stacker passenger liner of 1897, blue ribbond awarded, 1:144 (scratchbuild) "HMS Pegasus" , 16 gun sloop, Swan-Class 1776-1777 scale 1:64 from Amati plan -"Pamir" 4-mast barque, P-liner, 1:96 (scratchbuild) -"Gorch Fock 2" German Navy cadet training 3-mast barque, 1:95 (scratchbuild) "Heinrich Kayser" heritage Merchant Steamship, 1:96 (scratchbuild) original was my grandfathers ship -"Bohuslän" , heritage ,live Swedish museum passenger steamer (Billings kit), 1:50 "Lorbas", river tug, steam driven for RC, fictive design (scratchbuild), scale appr. 1:32 under restoration / restoration finished "Hjejlen" steam paddlewheeler, 1861, Billings Boats rare old kit, scale 1:50 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael mott Posted March 27, 2014 Author Share #867 Posted March 27, 2014 (edited) Aussie, thanks used to Sail, the Lilac was a small tree like White Lilac that I pruned in 1973 I only have a little left so I keep it for special occasions. Bob thanks and I think it looks even better now. Nils Yes I would like a full size one of these too. Today I finished up shaping the brass yoke and have almost finished shaping the tiller, it is such a lovely wood to work with.I really like the way the wood curls off when using the chisels. All that is left is the very end. after the shaping with the chisels i just gave it a rub down with a little steel wool I could not bring myself to putting any sandpaper on it. As I was shaping the brass I kept thinking of famous line "less is more" usually associated with Ludwig Mies Van Der Rohe (1886-1969) (the origin of the phrase surprised me) and so I continued to shape until it felt better. one of the things that occurred to me as I was shaping was the potential chafing of ropes on the yoke and so a more simple shape lessens that possibility. Tomorrow I will add the transition shoe for the deck. Michael Edited March 27, 2014 by michael mott captainbob, Omega1234, dvm27 and 15 others 18 Quote Current builds Bristol Pilot Cutter 1:8; Skipjack 19 foot Launch 1:8; Herreshoff Buzzards Bay 14 1:8 Other projects Pilot Cutter 1:500 ; Maria, 1:2 Now just a memory Future model Gill Smith Catboat Pauline 1:8 Finished projects A Bassett Lowke steamship Albertic 1:100 Anything you can imagine is possible, when you put your mind to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Lad Posted March 27, 2014 Share #868 Posted March 27, 2014 Verrrry nice, mate! John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WackoWolf Posted March 27, 2014 Share #869 Posted March 27, 2014 Your woke and detail is outstanding. Keep the pictures coming, and Thank you for sharing this with us. Quote Wacko Joe Go MSW :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drazen Posted March 27, 2014 Share #870 Posted March 27, 2014 Michael , if you have decided to build it just slightly bigger, you could sail with it. A beautiful work you are doing – great precision. Have fun! Dražen Quote There are no boundaries... … besides those we set for ourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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