BANYAN

Great to have that old tooling hull to practice on; the actual model will look all the better for the practice. cheers Pat

Nice clean woodwork there Steve; they look good. cheers Pat

A major milestone completed nicely Rexy. cheers Pat

Thanks Druxey. I have trawled the NMM several times but you seem to know your way around much better than me (I wonder why ) I think I will just need to slowly go through the whole collection. That is getting fairly close, I just need to exchange the iron frames for the diagonal planking with Lang's Plan of ironwork. Pity they did not mention the ship class or name as I could then locate the associated plans (hopefully he says appreciate this cheers Pat

Those trawls will look excellent; nice improvisation Denis. cheers Pat

Very nice Toni, that looks great. i have just noticed your excellent ironwork also. cheers Pat

Hi Vossie, Under the skylights I painted the surface a very pale blue, so that when I used plastic, mica or even perspex to simulate the glass of the skylight, it gave the impression of depth and something open under there. In the hatch entryways, I sometimes even used white on the vertical surfaces, so that when you looked through an open hatch there was an impression of some light - some people paint them black to hide the fact there is nothing in there, or even close the hatch completely, but I tend to use veneer to enclose the hatchway entrance void where the ladderway disappears into, to give the impression of a bulkhead etc, then paint a light colour to reflect a bit of light. A couple of modellers even painted curtains and/or pale yellow (to simulate a lantern), on the clear material used to simulate glass, so that when looking through the window, again there is a sense of depth. i hope this explains a little clearer. Unfortunately the model i did this too is no longer in my possession and no photos sorry. cheers Pat

That looks great Greg, what paint did you end up using. I will take a bit of time to look at that link also, looks very interesting. Persistence pays off and I am glad you found something that works for you. I think you have identified one of the issues I had (splatter (low pressure) - thanks for that cheers Pat

Well worth the wait mate; she is looking great. You have been busy, some nice details added. cheers Pat

Hi folks, anything pleeeeaaassse... What I think I really need is a diagram or description of the keel, limber, floor, futtocks and framing pattern of a contemporary vessel (such as one of the Cruiser class (1850 ish), Arrow Class (1854) etc - anything will be a great start for me. Begging complete cheers Pat

That is a great idea Pete; very useful in several application. Thanks for sharing. cheers Pat

Coming along very nicely Vossie. All this attention to the bones of the model will pay dividends in the long run. WRT entry spaces etc, I have toyed with the idea of painting them a very pale grey/blue so that they reflect light a little better? cheers Pat

Thanks Druxey, That diagram is from the construction of a Tea Clipper and not built on the Lang Plan principle (ironwork); it was was shown only to illustrate the planking (I will edit the text accordingly). I am basing most of my assumptions on White's discussion paper where by he describes the use of temporary vertical timbers which would have been removed later? Thanks for the imput and I very much appreciate that you are looking at this discussion. cheers Pat

Hi folks. Some help please (see end of post). My investigations and research on the HMCSS Victoria (1855) continue. While designed along the lines of a Gun Despatch Vessel (see Cruiser, Arrow and Vigilant Classes), Oliver Lang used some leading-edge construction techniques when designing her. As such she differed substantially in construction to RN warships of the era (although she looked similar externally). Lang designed her to be constructed using the diagonal planking technique; as espoused by a fellow member of the Institute of the newly formed Naval Architects, Mr John White. White presented a paper (2 March 1860) on this subject in the first edition of the Journal "Transactions of the Institution of Naval Architects" titled "on an Improved Method of Building Diagonal Ships". The publication is available online (Google Books) and the article is on page 112 of the document (page 137 of the pdf). [Edit: Different to the designs shown below, White suggest a 30 degree angle superior in strength to that of 45 degree diagonal planking. As White and Lang were contemporaries and both members of the Naval Architects Institute, I am assuming this would have swayed the construction to White's method. Further support for my assumption is that the ship builder (Young), and the designer of the feathering screw (Maudsley) were also contemporaries and members, all of whom would have influenced his design (noting that one of the provisions for Lang designing the ship [free of charge] was that he was given "free reign" with no limitations/restrictions other than to meet the broad requirements.] I am sure she had diagonal planking as it was specified in the Contract (Scantlings) as shown below: This technique involved stopping the frames at the 'turn of the bilge' then using the strength of the diagonal planking supported with iron plates for lateral and vertical strength, with additional iron work to support beams etc. This is shown in a plate that accompanied the paper: As Lang designed the ship, I am also assuming he would have used his own iron work designs as shown In James Peake "Rudiments of Naval Architecture" : An example of what the diagonal planking looked like can be seen in Charles desmond "Wooden Ship Building (1919) - Fig 91 (page 102) and in George Campbell's "China tea Clippers" in his illustrations (Fig 22) of the Clipper "Vision" of Liverpool (page 67)- please note, these illustrations are included only to show the planking technique (as pointed out by Druxey, the China Tea Clippers, well the VISION at least,, had vertical timbers. I am assuming that Victoria used Lang's Plan of iron supports as espoused by White) Questions: I am trying to get a feel of what the actual framing and construction would have looked like? Would the base framing (to the turn of the bilge) have been exactly the same as for a contemporary fully framed ship (say HMS Harrier or HMS Arrow) - see discussion in the presented paper (extract follows) and I am assuming Victoria would have used the warship option for the floor timbers etc. I know Lang would have used his own keel design (Lang's Safety Keel); but as a novice in this area, I am trying to determine the framing/timber layout/spacing etc used . As there was no rise I am also assuming there was no need for chocks in the futtocks etc. Can anyone point me to a good drawing or reference , or provide some clarifications on this please? cheers Pat

I'm following along Joss and enjoying your discussion. I am currently doing a simple 2D plan and side elevation drawing of the Victoria, but one day hope to draw up full plans - so I am following along to see what you do cheers Pat

Hi Kiran and welcome to MSW. This is a great place to learn and you will find people willing to help you when needed. What sort of models do you make/interested in; static or RC, period or steel navy etc? cheers Pat

That's unusual REXY, mine was the AL kit (as a starting point) and it had the walnut wheels; i don't recall there being any brass ones. Could be a later version of the kit? cheers Pat

I look forward to this build Karl, your last was inspiring and this looks as it will be another! cheers Pat

Hi Carl, There are a few discussions about the use of Talc and baking soda/powder with thin, and with "old' CA as a filler and/or strengthener, but also as a backing in crevices to support small pieces etc. See http://cs.finescale.com/fsm/tools_techniques_and_reference_materials/f/13/t/90424.aspx or http://www.tested.com/art/makers/573280-shop-tips-mixing-superglue-and-baby-powder/ or http://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php?topic=33125.0 Note in the latter discussion it states that once sprinkling the powder over the CA, let it set but to sand it sooner rather than later as it sets very very hard. This is an example of the commercial product (no associations nor have I used it yet - just aware of it). i do not know if it works better or not than baking soda https://www.deluxematerials.co.uk/en/rc-modelling/30-roket-powder-5060243900159.html cheers Pat

Hi rexy, great to see you making some progress with the planking. Could I recommend though that you do not leave the metal pins in as these will cause hard spots when sanding to fair the first planking. You will find that the sandpaper will take away the softer wood leaving the metal with a small surround of wood forming a bump if you have to sand that area. I found it best to use the pins as temp fasteners and not drive them home so that i could remove them once the glue has set. cheers Pat

Greg, Carl would 'powder' and thin CA along the joint for reinforcing also work? I know Rocket make this stuff but I have heard that using talc would also work? The card modellers use this technique a lot I believe? cheers Pat

Nice work; if that is what you do when crook, I really look forward to the quality of your work when you are feeling well cheers Pat

Nice to have you back in the dockyard Mike; must have been a great holiday? cheers Pat

Great to see you back Steve; the gaff looks good. cheers Pat

Nice work Sjors; slowly but surely will get you there cheers Pat