BANYAN

A lively discussion WRT to underwater fittings, the gudgeons, pintles, water intakes etc in my vessel (1855) were gunmetal.... Back on track though , the question related to upper deck equipment. In addition to the 'pretty work', such things as compass covers, especially the night covers, were usually brass and probably kept quite shiny - I know from experience that the 'morning watch' was brass work time, especially in the wheelhouse etc. Other items that sometimes attracted the polishing rag were the brass work on the Captain's gig (especially the brass in the rubbing strips), the ship's bells (forward and watchkeeping), brass ornamentation on such things as the bitts, companions and other upperdeck furniture. Some larger equipment in some 'period' ships also left the 'heads' and some fittings on such things as pumps etc brass simply as 'pretty work' - depended on the skipper (and if a warship, on the operational circumstances). As explained by John though, if it could be easily removed , it was stowed away in harbour if the public or other workers were embarking Just another pennies worth Pat

Thanks again for the info Dr. Per and Lieste; much appreciated. Dr. Per - appreciate that clarification which allowed me to move on using the Lees tabular data. For my project I found the 1st Class Brig data aligned quite closely with the screw-sloop I am researching and building. I applied the same formula to determine the appropriate ratio/proportion and applied it to my needs; as follows (the measured is as taken from the profile photograph of the ship I have - and conforms with the calculated proportions) Yard/Boom Lees Boom Length (Proportion of the Yard) Victoria Boom Length Victoria Given Diameter Lower Yard 55’ 56’ (Specified) Lower Boom 36’ 0.55 32’ 6” (Measured) 6½” (Measured) Topsail Yard 41’’ 43’ (Specified) Topsail Boom 27’ 6” 0.67 28’ 10” (Calculated) 5¾” (Calculated) Topgallant Yard 27” 25’ 6” (Specified) Topgallant Boom 20’ 6” 0.76 19’ 4” (Calculated) ⩳4” (Calculated) I must admit, due to the peculiarities of the spars in this vessel (similar as to what you appear to be finding with your project also) I have not looked closely at tabular data, especially in Kipping and Fincham. I may have to revise my thoughts on that; but, I am happy to say I have almost concluded my research in this aspect (spars) and well down the track with the rigging now. Thanks again for your info and pointer. cheers Pat

Hi Allan, I tend to use a wider central 'king' plank and allow for any 'crown' (I think that is what they are called - as in thicker) planks that are called for in way of guns and heavy equipment. I do work out a butt shift pattern but as you say, often between upperdeck furniture such as companions, hatches, etc, this pattern can go to 'custard'. Hence, most of my central planks (either side of the king) are measured to fit between the central upperdeck furniture and equipment where possible. I then start my butt shift working outboard from there to the crown planks, using the shift pattern you discussed on my thread related to 'shift pattern last year (maybe the year before?). Where possible, I try to make the crown planks fit the pattern but I am not 'governed by that. Druxy has identified 1700 as a general date for better organisation of the planks , so please note all my builds have been after that date. cheers Pat

Thanks for the info Bob and Dr. Per. It just goes to show that no matter how often I checked, somehow I still missed that info in Lees. Can't figure how I did that, but do appreciate the pointer. Dr. Per, I am assuming the decimal values you provide are you calculations of the values provided in the tables (Lees)? As suggested, I am not too hung up on the exact length just need a 'rule' or indicated length to work with to get an idea of the diameters (for the ID of the irons). Many thanks Pat

Hi folks, back with another question for the more knowledgeable on these matters. I have read and searched far and wide to try and find guidance on the lengths of studdingsail booms. I have found guidance on the diameters (1" in every 5 feet of length) but except for one 'tid bit' provided by Jans Sajt (following) whom suggests they were about half of the length of the 'entire' yard I have not been able to find any guidance. These were not given in the ship's specifications either so I am hoping someone can point me in the correct direction. I have checked Lees, Lever, Harland, Underhill and Kipping. http://www.jans-sajt.se/contents/Navigation/Modelling/Patterns_Rigg_Stunsails.htm "The studding sail boom was half as long as the entire yard. When set, the yard would be extended to 1.5 of its own length. " I am not sure if the auther intended to use the word "entire' in this respect as that would make the boom as long as one side of the yard itself. This does not make sense to me - does he actually mean half of one side of the yard? Would appreciate any suggestions or pointers; many thanks Pat

Stunning work as usual mate; I am very impressed with the consistent high quality of your joinery - this is an exceptional build! I very much enjoy seeing your updates and especially the specialised tools you create. cheers Pat

Looks very good Keith; a great start. cheers Pat

If you call that crude I still feel ever so inadequate with my level of skills. I have had to remind myself on several occasions that I was looking at a model and not the real cabin. Exceptional work Michael. cheers Pat

Looking good Eberhard, particularly noting the scale you are working at. cheers Pat

It's always a pleasure to see updates to your build; very nice clean work as usual. cheers Pat

Michael, that is exceptional work; I'll try to find some room in that hole also - us mere mortals can just observe and stand in wonderment. cheers Pat

I understand the confusion and frustration you are feeling (undergoing a similar issue with researching my Victoria rigging from scratch ) Those translated booklets can sometimes add even further frustration. As to the book, it would all depend on whether you wish to build another model of this period and type - the Book "AOTS - The Armed Transport Bounty" has many plans including the usual full rigging plan on the inside of the cover; so if you do decide to get it, make sure the jacket is included. Here are two sample pictures from the web for it: cheers Pat

Dave, Amati (and many other older ship model manufacturer's/kits) plans are somewhat simplified and often just show the step/rigging of the lines being indicated for that step and not the others rigged in the same vicinity etc. If you do not have it, I would recommend a copy of the AOTS Bounty book which shows the rigging in much more detail. That said, you still need to look at all sections and illustrations (for standing, running etc) of these drawings to get the 'full' picture as the research behind the rigging is much deeper - in some instances may not even marry-up with the Amati plans. It is not easy as you are finding, especially for a first time builder of this style of ship. You are very much on track in trying to rig as much rigging and fittings to the spars before assembly, this certainly helps. There is no easy way around this unfortunately. It's your choice if you want to go the 'simplified path' as shown by Amati, especially if you are treating this as a leaning experience. However, you will need to look at both the standing and running rigging fittings on the different sheets/plans to get some feel. Often, as you are finding, the plan sheets differ in that a single or double block is shown in the same vicinity - depending on what rigging sheet you are looking at, these may be different blocks used for different purposes. From your description I think you have figured that the blocks shown are actually just one (each) of pairs of blocks rigged to the top over the trestletrees using a long strop with blocks seized into their ends (only showing the blocks on one side). The block with 3 holes being the upper block of a 'winding' tackle which is feasible (but unusual) but is dependent on its intended use (looks like it is used with the lifts in this instance). It is possible the other 2 hole blocks are for another purpose but rigged in the same position? Would need to follow the number identifiers to ascertain this (assuming the numbers on all sheets are to the same legend). cheers Pat

That's why we export it; no one here wants it cheers Pat

Steven, that is some nice detail that adds a lot of visual interest to the model. cheers Pat

Another great choice of subject matter Greg; look forward to this one. Can I ask why 'Zulu' and not one of the Aussie ships? There must be a wealth of info available for the Aussie ones? cheers Pat

Michael, to the eye those mismatched dimensions are not discernible, so more kudos your way in figuring all that out. Looks like you have a nice fit now. cheers Pat

Very nice work Alex, everything is so nicely symmetrical and uniformly shaped. cheers Pat

Ah, but that scratch adds some real authenticity Looks good Michael. cheers Pat

Looking good there Keith, ready for the riggers to get to wrk? cheers Pat

No problem Dave; just glad you find some of the info useful. I have tried the waxed with some reasonable results (but not on an actual model as yet). I try to get the silk stuff, which by and large doesn't need to be waxed. I tend to stay away from prewaxed as the wax tends to seal the thread making it harder to secure the ends (varnish/glue). The overall driving thing for me is size as the small size stuff, even f not glace/defuzzed is so small, and usually wound so tight the fuzz either does not show much or is very easy to remove if it does show. If you have any dedicated 'fly fishing shops' in the vicinity a visit may be worth you while. My local guy here did not stock silk thread but did offer to get it in if he could. I still have enough so have not taken up the offer yet. There was a recent thread (title is not coming to me at the moment) where someone helpfully identified a source for it (and other fishing/boating related thread). If I run across it again I will post a link. For the cotton/silk sewing threads I contacted the importer direct (by email) and they were very helpful. If you are interested I have put together an article on threads for my club; happy to send you a copy - just PM me if you are interested. cheers Pat

You're a braver man than me 'Gunga Din' - great results though Michael - look forward to to seeing the new doors. cheers Pat

My condolences also Bitao, I hope you find some peace in her blessing of a long life. regards Pat

Sorry for the delayed response Dave. For serving, I use sewing machine or fly tying (silk) threads - Gutterman usually - the thinnest I can find. A lot of the actual serving was done with 'spunyarn' probably of 12 thread or smaller size ( I have yet to determine the exact size of a 'thread' back then However, I have found that the thinnest sewing threads (good quality) glace (defuzzed) works quite well for me. If you can find good quality fly tying threads even better - they come in very fine sizes. cheers Pat

I do the same as Gunther. BE - Good tip on reducing the size of the host line to compensate for over scaling the serving thread. cheers Pat