Group Prototype HMS Winchelsea - FINISHED - 1764 - by Chuck (1/4" scale)

[Chuck]

Im not sure what you mean

[Jim Rogers]

“Turns out I only needed to adjust and use one wider plank”

 

You talked about having to add one or two wider planks on the ends I was wondering if it would also work top dead center.

[Chuck]

I am honestly not sure.   I think it might throw the run off.  But its hard to say unless I line off the deck to check. 

 

Here is an overall shot of how the fittings are progressing beneath the quarter deck.   I have placed those two forward qdeck beams back on the model temporarily.   Next up will be the two posts on the forward side of the gallows.  These are usually made of metal but I have seen wooden posts on contemporary models.   I prefer the look of the metal ones however.   

 

Here is a good example of what those metal posts for the pump cranks look like.  This first one is what I will try and replicate.   Both actually have really small cotter pins on those cranks for the pump.  How insane is that?   I wont be attempting that.

 

 

 

 

[Thistle17]

Impressive metal work indeed! The fittings appear to be brass Chuck. In that period did they tend to leave them a natural finish as normal practice?

Joe

[Chuck]

It could just be age as the finish might have worn off.  Most often these old models have a nice patina on all the metal work.  They may have been painted but its hard to see any evidence of that so many years later.  

[Chuck]

Today was a good day to work on the model....cold and rainy.   Continuing the chain pumps....

 

The crank handles are next but I needed to make the forward stanchions for them.   I posted some contemporary examples of those earlier.

 

You can make these all out of brass if you like.  Like so many other parts, they can be made using boxwood if your careful and neatly built them.  It becomes all about how you finish them or paint them.

 

The stanchions will hopefully look similar to these.

 

 

I used a 5/64 x 1/16" boxwood strip and shaped it as follows.   Attached to this was an actual brass strip that was bent to the curved shape needed and blackened.   I drilled a hole for the crank in the top of the boxwood strip and rounded off the top.  I determined the height of the stanchion by using the 1mm brass rod as before.

 

Once the height was good I glued the bent brass strip....1/64" x 1/16" brass strip to the wood stanchion.   Its the same width so it will all look like the same piece if carefully sanded and painted and weathered.

 

 

Here is what it looks like on the model.  This is also how I determined their height.

 

Then it was time to make the crank handles.  I cut the center brass rod to length and blackened it.  It was cut so the crank handles would clear the horizontal cross timber on the gallows.  so the brass rod overhangs the horizontal timber of the gallows and jeer bits on the other end.  See below.   

 

The crank handle was bent to shape from the same size 1mm brass rod.   But the square portion was once again made from boxwood.  I left it unpainted in the photo below.  I used the same 5/64 x 1/16 strip.   I drilled one hole for the main shaft and another for the bent crank handle into the end of the piece.   I glued it onto the end of the bent crank handle.  Its a very simple concept.  Once painted black and brushed with some weathering powder it will all look very convincing....I hope.

 

 

To position it, slide the wooden end onto the main shaft first.  But the crank handle needs to be in the "up" position.  just rotate it so the bent crank is on the top.  This will allow you to clear the cross beam of the gallows.  Slide it on and then insert the forward end in the "iron" stanchion on the edge of the grating.

 

Below both crank handles are completed and painted....with some weathering powder.   Next I will repeat this for the bent crank handles on the aft side of the chain pumps.  I think it turned out pretty good for a low tech assembly.

 

 

 

 

 

[Chuck]

The chain were completed.  I finished the crank handles on the aft side of the pumps.  They were done exactly the same way as the forward crank handles.

Then those two remaining qdeck beams were permanently glued in position along with the lodging knees.  It feels good to get those done.

 

 

 

All that remains in this chapter is to make and add the two elm tree pumps.  I may start on those tomorrow.

 

 

 

[scrubbyj427]

Wonderful! This is going to be chapter 7?

[Chuck]

Yes indeed.....chapter 7.  Chapter 8 will be the fittings and beams for the forecastle....

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

yay, I think than  Chuck plans those peculiar curvy instalments around catheads leading towards figurehead to complete what was started in chapter 6 seems will be in chapter 8. Amazing. 

[KentM]

I must be missing something.  Where is Chapter 6?

Kent

[Chuck]

Chapter 6 is just adding the guns.   Its not written yet as a pdf chapter but is described in robust detail in my log.  It is also described in the instructions for building gun carriages in my store.  Its the same carriage.

 

Kent...when are you gonna start a build log?

[Chuck]

Finished the elm tree pumps which effectively finish chapter 7.   I will get the printed chapters ready this week for both chapters 6 and 7.  I will also be working on getting the parts for this chapter ready within a week or so.  There are a whole bunch of laser cut parts for this chapter and more than usual so it will take a little while.   There are probably more laser cut parts in this chapter than in many complete kits.

 

Making the elm pumps is pretty straight forward.  Same as those for Cheerful and other kits.

 

1.You can use a  7/10/7 ratio to transfer lines to each side of the 3/16" square pump tube. This will help you turn the 3/16 x 3/16 x 5/8" boxwood strip into a neat octagon. But its such a short piece that like me you may be able to eyeball it and sand it to the octagon shape with a nail file.  Carefully file the tube to an Octagon using the lines or your eye as a guide. Drill and bore out the top of the tube to a depth of about 3/8". Carefully use a bit that will leave the pump tube walls not too heavy.

 

2. File and shape the bracket for the handle. The part that sits against the pump tube is tapered thinner so it fits on one facet of the octagon. Use a slotting needle file 1/32" thin or less to file the slot in the top to a forked shape. This will accept the handle.

 

3. Place a 1/16" x 1/16" strip in a dremel to round it off for the spout. Using an emery board this takes only a minute. This will become your pump spout. Drill a hole into the end before parting off a 5/64" long spout. Glue it to the pump tube. All pieces can be painted first.

 

4. Using some black tape or even painted painted black paper, cut it into thin strips about 3/64" wide.  This will simulate the iron band at the top of the pump tube.

 

5. Glue the bracket into position.  You could paint it black like I did or leave it natural.

 

6. Insert a length of 24 gauge black wire into the hole on the end of the handle. Like an eyebolt. Insert the end of this long wire into a pre-drilled hole in the bore of the pump tube. Adjust the length of the wire until the other pivot-hole in the handle sits in the bracket nicely. The handle should be in the downward position to be correct.

 

7. Finally insert a small length of 28 gauge black wire into the bracket hole and through the handle to lock it in position. Snip it off on both sides so it stand proud of the bracket's surface just a little bit.

 

Finishing all of the deck fittings and beams does really change the overall look of the model.  Its starting to fill in with all of those wonderful details.  This makes you want to add more of them which I will do shortly.  Chapter 8 will be doing this same work but under the forecastle beams.  Finally get to make the stove and other bitts.

 

Just look at how the model is filling out nicely with detail.  Just try not to snag those elm tree pump handles as you work on other stuff on the model!!!  Boy that forecastle area looks so empty!!

 

[rookie]

Exquisite work!

 

I really like the base 

[scrubbyj427]

Impressive! This project has set the bar way up. Can’t wait to start this stuff!

 

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

20 hours ago, rookie said:

Exquisite work!

 

I really like the base 

its very pretty isnt it. it gives half of overall aesthetic feel like unseparable whole ...hmm

Edited June 2, 2021 by Vladimir_Wairoa
add

[Chuck]

The base is just as important as the model itself.  A poor base and case can really degrade the overall look of a project.   

 

Chuck

[Jim Rogers]

46 minutes ago, Chuck said:

The base is just as important as the model itself.  A poor base and case can really degrade the overall look of a project.   

 

Chuck

Truth

[Chuck]

As I am finalizing and cutting Chapter seven parts...here is a sneak peak of what will  be chapter 8.  I have just started working on these fittings under the fcastle deck beams.   There are far fewer items so this chapter should go quicker.  The most detailed item to make will be the Stove.  The other stuff is quite straight forward.

 

 

 

[Chuck]

There are two rails/fore bitts forward and aft of the foremast on the Fcastle.  These are interesting fittings in that they extend from the gundeck through and up to the f'castle.  So we will start chapter 8 with those.   But first a little prep work.

 

I knew when I drafted the plans for Winnie ....specifically the deck clamps...that at the extreme bow I would probably incorrectly space the notches for the deck beams.  This turned out to be true.  It was difficult for me to design the deck clamps as the rounded the bow so the beams of the f'castle would be properly spaced and positioned.  I knew I would be adjusting them before I started making the fittings below the f'castle beams.

 

Turns out that only forward six deck beam notches need to be altered.  They need to be moved forward a bit in ever increasing distances as the get closer to the bow.  This is very easy to do as you guys only have to widen your notches for those six forward deck beams.  So place all the beams temporarily in their current notches and use the supplied template to see how far forward all of those six beams should be moved.  The last or forward most beam has to be moved 5/32" forward and requires the most extreme shift to the notch in the deck clamp.

 

Here is a photo of the template in position after all the forward deck beams were moved.

 

You will be referring back to this template often as you work.

 

With that completed lets build the bowsprit step and two rails.  But remember that these are all one piece on the actual ship BUT split in half between decks on our model to simplify matters.   Even though you will be building the actual rails now for the f'castle they wont be needed until a much later chapter.  Its just easier to build them together so they are the same width when completed.  This will help the illusion that they are all one piece later on.  There is the bowsprit step made from 4 laser cut pieces.....which has a rail above it.  There is a "Y" shaped element on the aft side of the foremast which also has a rail above it and was one continuous piece.  Or at least they should look that way when done.

 

So build these from the laser cut boxwood pieces.

 

 

Note the square hole for the aft end of the bowsprit tenon.   That was actually a mistake from my original design.   The bowsprit angle was changed during construction as noted on the original draft/plans to a steeper angle.   This hole was actually below deck and wouldnt be seen so I removed it and made another which you will see.

 

Note how the rails are the same width as the parts below deck and thus its easier to build these together even though we wont be mounting the rails above the deck beams yet.  But this is what it will look like and what we are shooting for if it was mounted.  We are starting with the fourth deck beam from the stem.

 

The rail is just temporarily in position to show you guys how it should look.

 

But we are basically adding the fourth beam first.....

 

Then positioning the bowsrit step.  This has a slight angle as shown on the plans.   Then I added the two manger barriers on either side of the bowsprit step.  

 

The manger barriers are basically a wooden partition on either side of the bowsprit step.  They are laser cut for you.  First glue the two flat boards together edgewise to form the barrier.   shown on top below.

 

 

Then take that barrier and position it on the model.  Both ends need to be shaped to fit you bulwarks and beveled to fit against the bowsprit step.   Each partition will be slightly longer so you can take your time and care to get the correct shapes.

 

Once they fit....add the strops on each end....

 

1/8" x 1/64" strips to simulate the slotted fixture these two boards would be slid into.  These partitions were always being removed and repositioned to give access to the manger area.

 

As you can see I painted mine red.

 

This is what it looks like all done without the rails above the bowsprit.

 

Note that I also added the hanging knees on each side of the fourth deck beam.  It was just easier to add them know.  When positioning the manger partitions....CAUTION....

 

Beware that the position along the bulwarks is important.   You will need to keep it clear of where other hanging knees will fall and the scupper should you choose to show them.

 

From this point I added the remaining deck beams....knees and lodging knees moving forward towards the stem.

 

Just use the template and plan as a guide.  Its no different then adding the knees for the qdeck.  The only difference is that they are on the opposite side of the deck beams this time.   

 

 

Next up I will add the cat tail for the catheads.  It will be much easier to add them at this point before I start adding any more fittings and deck beams!!!

 

Any questions.???

 

Oh yes....I did make the riding bitts but they are just temp positioned.  I still have to finish those and paint them.   I should have removed them from the pictures before I took them.

 

 

[Stuntflyer]

Nicely done, as ALWAYS!

 

Mike

[Chuck]

Thanks Mike....Tomorrow I have to remember to take pictures of both our Winnie models next to each other.   It will be interesting to see both together now that we are so much farther along.  Way back when we managed to take a picture at this stage....we have come a long way since then.

 

It will be really fun to get the guys together after 18 months....I am looking forward to it.   We have about a guys from our club coming by the shop for some lunch and they will be bringing their models that they have been working on during the lock-down!!!  Good times!!!

 

[Stuntflyer]

I've been waiting patiently for a Saturday get-together. They are always lots of fun and it will be great to see everyone. As much as I worry about packing it safely into the car, I will bring the Winnie.

 

M

 

 

Edited June 11, 2021 by Stuntflyer

[Chuck]

Just a heads up as well.   I am nearing completion of the first 12 chapter seven parts in cedar.  It takes a long time.   Nearly 25 laser cut boards in this chapter.   It may not seem like a lot but keep in mind that the parts for this chapter are more complex.  Most are laser cut on both sides which nobody else does.   This nearly doubles the number of boards as far as time goes.   Its like butting 50 boards per chapter.   Many if not most of the parts are also boxwood.

 

I probably should have made this two chapters in hindsight.   Anyway.... I have a request.

 

Because these take so long to laser cut....if you are not near needing these parts immediately, please refrain from buying it.  I know many of you havent even started the project yet.   I would ask that you let the folks who are at this stage of the project and really need the chapter seven parts to buy this first batch.   I think you understand why.  No sense in having them sit on a shelf for a year while we have people who actually ready to start chapter seven.

 

Thank You in advance.  When I get back from Washington DC I will start making the first cherry chapter parts.

 

Chuck

[Chuck]

Two winnie's....

 

I know these pics arent that good but it was tough to take pictures at the time.   Mike's Winnie next to mine again ....

 

 

Most notable to mention...One is made entirely of Boxwood while the other is made almost entirely of Yellow cedar.   Can you tell the difference?   Yellow Cedar at a third the cost of Boxwood, LOL.

 

It was such a nice afternoon.

 

And a quick look at what I am designing for the catheads.  I am working on the design for parts we will need much later in the project.  I am making some beta tests.  Here is the cathead under development.  I think this is the final iteration I will go with.  Laser etched side panels and star carving.   Actual working sheaves as well.  Its a little too short and I just have to lengthen it about 3/32".  Then its good to go.  Each piece of this project was probably tested and remade about 5 or 6 times before you get the final parts.

 

 

 

[James H]

Those look beautiful. The box looks slightly paler.

[scrubbyj427]

Wow those look great together! I certainly noticed the color of AYC and how close it resembles boxwood, but also how easily it can be worked.

[Wacom]

Just gets better.

[Jorge Diaz O]

Wonderful job, Mr. Passaro. I wanted to ask if the wales could be made in the way that it appears in the attached photographs, I do not know the technical name but I had seen it in several frigates including the HMS Triton.

[Chuck]

If you want.  But have a look at some planking expansions for fifth rates.  That anchor style planking is correct.   Its not something you would see on a contemporary model that often.  But it is historically correct to show it planked like that.  BUT it is a little “kitchen sink” for my tastes.  Check out the the swan class series for a good example in that series of books.  By David Antscherl.
 

If not done neatly and cleanly it usually looks pretty bad and can really make a model look sloppy.  So proceed carefully.