Group Prototype HMS Winchelsea - FINISHED - 1764 - by Chuck (1/4" scale)

[Chuck]

Not really.... i think there would be too many variables.  Having said that.  I could be wrong too so you have nothing to lose by trying.  The issue is how fairing will affect your marks as you would be adding them before fairing.

[Jim Rogers]

I figured I could draw 1/2 inch on each side of bulkhead. I’ll be starting a log next week after my Hobbyzone building slip arrives.

[bear]

Ahoy Chuck and All

 

As for dents,you can use the steaming out of them. Just dab  a little water on the dent,then use the travel iron to raise the dent up. Repeat it as needed. You can also just let the water do its work without heat to raise the dent too.

You can use this to your advantage too,compress the area on the wood that will fit into a slot or under something. Compress it so it fits in easy. Then just before you insert it in.wet it, assemble it and wait for the wood to expand back -and you have a tight joint.  Barrel and bucket coopers use this for sealing the bottoms and sides of the staves by compressing a line in the wood,plaining it down until the compressed groove is level. Then when the wood gets wet,that compressed line expands and acts like a  compressed gasket.

 

Keith and Boris

Edited October 27, 2019 by bear
spelling

[tedirene]

Chuck,

I have been watching your planking videos and have read your tutorial "Lining Out", several times.  I'm about to give it a go but have a question.  The tick strips.  Do you cut them yourself or are they some sort of self adhesive art supply?  If it's a really dumb question, just ignore it and I'll fetch myself a pair of scissors and get to work.

 

Ted 

[Chuck]

They are just cut from regular printer paper with a #11 blade.   No adhesive needed.   You can hold them against the bulkhead with one hand while you mark the tick marks with the other.

 

I cut them around 5/16" wide.

 

Chuck

[Chuck]

Planking is now finished on the starboard side....I did celebrate a little and I am glad it is all done.  Next up I will add the stern post.  I already sanded the planking flush with the stern rabbet and now all I have to do is tweak the laser cut stern post and glue it in position.

 

 

You will also notice those black bands across the hull.  You guys know how I like to check and double and triple check stuff using tape and other stuff.  What you see is black masking tape cut to 3/32" wide for the top band and 1/8" wide for the band that runs through the center of the gun ports.  I had been looking at my test molding strips and thought that the molding I had used for the lower band was too wimpy at 3/32" wide.  I had originally matched the width of the one above above it. You can see it in the photo below.  I have also been examining the contemporary model and original draft a lot more with regard to the moldings.  They show a heavier lower molding running through the gun ports.  So I used the tape to check out what a wider molding would look like.  I really recommend that you guys go through this exercise.  It will help you establish the proper run for them.  You can tweak them to you hearts content.  Then mark the top edge with a pencil so you have a guide when actually adding the molding.   

 

Even though you might be able to use the planking seams as a guide, that isnt always perfect and may have gone waavy or too high in spots.  Mine did in some areas so I was able to correct it with the tape and mark it for later.  You cant notice it when just looking at the planks but it would have been noticeable after the molding went on.  Especially at the bow.  It also helps me get consistent on both sides which your planking may not be perfectly aligned. 

 

I am going to go with a wider molding.  Here is the contemporary model...

 

Once the stern post is on it will complete chapter two....I am working on the written chapter right now.  Shouldnt be long until I post it.

 

Chapter three will consist of stern transom and quarter gallery construction.....fun times!!!

 

 

 

 

[Thistle17]

One word....exquisite!

Joe

[JeffT]

looks perfect as usual 

[Stuntflyer]

Nicely done, Chuck! Thanks for the heads up on the molding strip widths and using tape to establish a proper run for each. You've peaked my interest in knowing how accurately I have planked that upper section.

 

Mike

[rafine]

Absolutely beautiful. Hard to imagine doing it as well, or even close.

 

Bob

[CaptMorgan]

Awesome stuff Chuck.  I really like the contrast of the colors - I know it won't stay that way but it does look pretty sweet.  

The flow looks great -- I'm always looking forward to your updates....

[Rustyj]

I can't begin to put into words how nice that looks!

[Chuck]

Thank you guys!!!  I hope to have chapter two ready for you guys to download real soon.

[knightyo]

Gorgeous work as usual Chuck.  Have you decided how you are going to approach the gunport hinges?  "Real" blackened metal hinges and straps would really look nice. (I basically want to see how an expert does it, so I can copy the same method on my Syren) 😁

 

Alan 

[knightyo]

Oh my.  That's exactly what I'm going to do. Beautiful.  Thanks Dubz.

 

Alan

[Chuck]

Have a look at those lids in that photo of the contemporary model.  I will use brass strip and shape them just like that.  But no soldering will be needed.  There arent that many of them so it shouldnt be too bad but it will take some time to make them all.   They will be working hinges made with wire...the hinge strap at the back end is thinned down and bent into a loop to accept the wire hinge pin.   The wire hinge pin is bent into an "L" and one end is glued into a hole in the hull planking.....this is done while the "L" wire pins are inserted into the hinges.   

 

It will be easier to show it done than explain......in a little bit.  No need for micro tubes as this will be a simplified approach....which being good enough for the contemporary builders will work just as good for us.  

 

But Dirks method is fine also....just more involved.  In the end they will look almost identical.  I wont be adding the many bolts as Dirk did either.  Not only is that much extra work but if its not done perfectly and they are misaligned it looks sloppy.  I also think it looks way too busy and over-done that way.....a kitchen sink approach.   For my own aesthetics I will follow contemporary practices and keep them clean and free from bolts.  "Less is more"

 

Chuck

 

[knightyo]

It will really be fun to watch how you create them; I think I can visualize the method you described. Not having to solder anything is also definitely appealing.  It's really going help a lot of builders to see both of these methods! 

 

Alan

[Chuck]

Lately I have been preferring the more classical approach.  I like the cleaner end result achieved by the contemporary builders of models.  I think we can get carried away with all the details which make some models appear too busy and overly clinical rather than an aesthetic work of the craft.   Literally "less is more".  I am finding the need to show every joint less and less.

 

For example....certainly you have seen some builders make a  rudder showing the tabled joints so every part/segment of it shows on the model.  I find this particularly distracting.  It would be so easy for me to laser cut those pieces and have them fit perfectly....

 

But I now prefer the more elegant and classical approach which I find more eye appealing and less "Look I made all the parts and made sure you can see them all"

 

See how clean this looks with a rudder in one piece?  I will still try and add a few extra details but I will no longer go crazy with them.   I just dont think it looks good.  I am still leaning toward not even adding treenails to the hull planking.  The model below looks just as good without them.  I think concentrating on my craftsmanship and neatness is more important.....rather than sloppy joints but I showed all of them.

 

Just to give you guys my current philosophy so you know where I am going with this model.    It also leaves more for you guys who might want to bash it and add all of that stuff.  More power to you!!!

 

 

 

[Edwardkenway]

Wow Chuck,  your Winnie is amazing,  the more I watch this group the more I think about putting Triton on hold and trying Winnie. 

Thanks for the very informative posts. 

Cheers.

[Chuck]

Ed,

 

You are very welcome....

 

This group is certainly more active and you might be able to apply what you see on this project to the Triton full hull as that is a more independent and fully scratch endeavor.  Its up to you but we would love to see another build log and group member.  The more the merrier.

 

Chuck

[Jim Rogers]

Chuck are you going to add color?

[Chuck]

Not sure what you mean, but if you are referring to painted friezes and red bulwarks/fittings, then yes.   I am pretty much following the contemporary model for colors and appearance with the addition of a few other details.  In addition, because we are building her to the 1780ish configuration there will be some differences.  For example, the counter at the stern will have the friezes but also the ships name as this was mandated by the admiralty at this time.  

 

Chuck

[sfotinos]

How do you keep your model so clean?  Do you wear gloves?

 

Shawn

[Gregory]

2 hours ago, Chuck said:

Have a look at those lids in that photo of the contemporary model.  I will use brass strip and shape them just like that. 

 

 

 

Not saying this is within my skill set, but your discussion of the port lids, and in the context of your beautiful model, do you think going this far ( the curved port lid )  would be too much?

 

Would they have been like that on the actual ship?

[ChrisLBren]

Beautiful job on the planking !  I agree with you - the less is more approach works very well - heck I almost decided not to simulate caulking but have changed my mind there.  No treenails for sure.  Hopefully Ill be back in the shop this weekend after many honey dos to get the house ready for winter - which is coming early here in the Midwest.  Kudos to a brilliantly executed model so far !!!

[Chuck]

Yes they must be curved to match the hull shape or they wouldnt close.   Its the only way to make them.  Doesnt everyone?  That is a very extreme case you show and I suspect that is more warped than bent to match the hull curvature.  On our model it is much more subtle but should be there none the less. 

 

I plan to show that port closed as well so it is even more important that is matches the curved hull shape.

 

Chuck

[Wacom]

Sorry if this question has already been answered but with the planking do you cut the planks to the scale length? I looked at the photos and while I can see the plank shift I find it difficult to determine the plank length.

[Chuck]

Yes indeed.   Each plank is cut to length based on the shifting bulkheads.  Usually 4 planks per strake (or row of planks).  Sometimes you get lucky and there are only three.  But usually four planks cut to length.  They will all be different and you must custom cut the lengths (and widths with a taper) for each plank as you proceed. 

 

Chuck

[Chuck]

I added the stern post today.  I must say that it felt really good.  That closes out this second chapter and really finishes off the hull to the point where I feel I actually accomplished something.  Its a good feeling.   I am sure you guys will feel the same.

 

I also forgot to post a comparison picture before I added the stern post.   But here it goes anyway.  I always think its interesting to see the progress on this new larger version against my smaller 3/16" scale version.   Here are two pictures.  My camera is much better now.  The old picture is dated 2011.  8 years ago or almost 9 years.  It doesnt feel that long.  I like the yellow cedar version better than the boxwood version.

 

 

 

[Rustyj]

She's looking really good. One question. The stern looks flat in the photo.

Is there a subtle curve from the center to port and starboard or is it flat? Thanks