HM Cutter Cheerful 1806 by Blue Ensign - FINISHED - Syren Ship Model Company - 1:48 scale

[Blue Ensign]

Thank you Wallace, I always try to avoid making myself work if at all possible. 🙂

 

B.E.

[Blue Ensign]

Post 82

The agony of indecision

I have now rigged all the guns, bar the portside bow chaser.

I have flipflopped between fitting it at the bow port or the second port, but the decision now has to be made.

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Having the port gun at the second port position but the starboard gun at the bow gives the model an unbalanced look, and having no guns at the bow with those large open ports empty doesn't look good aesthetically to my eye.

 I still think it's odd having those two large openings without any protection from an incoming sea.

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Gromit seems as confused as I am, but I can't deny the irrefutable evidence of the plans.

 

The notation that the windlass be moved two feet back to give more room to work the portside chase gun.

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The plan appearing to show the revised position of the windlass.

But the most important factor Mrs W agreed  the bow position looked the best, even if it raises issues of practicality.

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So bow position it is with all its apparent difficulty of working the gun.

I can now fix the gun and Windlass and complete the other deck fittings.

B.E.

17/04/2019

 

[MEDDO]

 It certainly looks better than the asymmetrical placement however it still looks so crowded.  Your work as always is exceptional 

[SardonicMeow]

How does it look with the bowsprit dry-fitted?  It seems to me that the bowsprit, more than the windlass, would limit the space to work.

[Rustyj]

She's looking really good. Your usual excellent workmanship.

I went with both guns at the bow as it looked better to me.

 

[davyboy]

Good evening B.E.

The problem with the Port Bowchaser is that it also will smash into the Bowsprit on recoil. Not a good idea I would say,I checked this out just to see. Moving the Windlass aft would certainly not prevent this occuring. However,I agree it is aesthetically pleasing to have a gun in the chase port.

 

I ordered an Ensign last week for my model from CMB,the packet arrived yesterday. They'd sent the wrong size,20mm and the invoice for the size I'd ordered. Not a happy bunny  I only have to make up rope coils and fit the Ensign when the correct replacement arrives then my model is finished after three and a half years work , Have to still make a stand for it though. 

 

11 models displayed and Cheerful will be #12,no wonder you're thinking of not rigging her  Mine is only my second build and first scratch build. I got into this hobby rather late in life (67). I rather fancy building David Antscherl and Greg Herberts Speedwell next,their book has 3 plans at 1:48th. I'd build the POB version as I don't have enough experience to do POF.

 

Regards,

 

Dave 

[vossiewulf]

I am confused also about cutter bow ports, every model I've seen has not enough room for the guns one way or another, Lady Nelson is even worse than Chuck's Cheerful. I totally gave up on the idea of placing guns at the bow as they were much too cramped.

 

Even looking at the contemporary models I see the same problems. Trial for example, although not really built for fighting, has absurdly cramped forward ports, I don't think you could even fit in a carriage. The others in the gallery aren't much better, and none are displayed with guns in the forward ports. So it seems like they just really liked having holes in the bow that didn't help them do anything and which probably shipped lots of water.

[Blue Ensign]

Thank you Michael and Rusty

 

@ Peter - It would, but the Bowsprit step standards are also a problem.

 

@ Dave - grasping at straws but maybe recoil was very limited on these guns, and they wouldn't have to move far in order to load and swab. We know that run in guns weren't fully run in to the extent that you could stand in front of them and  it was practice to lean out of ports to clean and load.

 

What Ensign did you order? Chuck shows a Union Flag at the Gaff possibly influenced by the rigged model of the Hawke which has a small one at the Gaff peake, but I think this is unusual.

I would love to see a photo of your model once it is completed.

 

@ vossie - Agree with everything you say vossie but we're still stuck with the contemporary written evidence in relation to Cheerful.

I have the same issue with the side steps, my inclination is to fit an additional step, and I even made them but the plan shows only three, so I am going to resist.

 

Always more questions than answers in the world of period ship modelling.

 

B.E.

18/04/19

[vossiewulf]

36 minutes ago, Blue Ensign said:

Agree with everything you say vossie but we're still stuck with the contemporary written evidence in relation to Cheerful.

Yes, I have the advantage of doing an imaginary ship that has some very odd features for a cutter (like the stern) so I can pretty much do whatever I want and get away with it. I changed the way the main boom will be rigged, replaced the windlass and boomsprit mount to something that looks like Trial, pretty much making it up as I go along. I like that in one respect but certainly will be looking to do specific ships in the future. And yes, no matter what you learn there are simply now more questions.

[vossiewulf]

45 minutes ago, Blue Ensign said:

grasping at straws but maybe recoil was very limited on these guns, and they wouldn't have to move far in order to load and swab.

That's the only solution if we don't have dimensions wrong somewhere- they'd have had to shorten the breeching ropes until the carriage couldn't really move at all, and hope the bulwarks could take it. And you'd have to work the guns outboard, probably over top of the rail rather than trying to do it through the small ports.

[Ian B]

The port bow chaser puzzled me too when fitting it, I would worry where the crew stood to keep out of the way of the recoil...let alone place the tools, rounds and powered need to work the gun.

[Ian B]

Just a thought , perhaps the cannon was not there to fight but just to fire low charge warning shots to frighten ships to heave too?

[flyer]

Hi B.E.

 

Great precision and great details!

 

The more it must be annoying if something as important as a whole gun doesn't fit properly. Couldn't you close the chase ports with something like 'plug in lids'? I'm pretty sure that such things were used to keep the sea on the right side of the bulwark when no permanent port lids were installed. Then you could place those two guns behind their regular ports and reserve the use of the chase ports for times when desperate measures are required. Perhaps Chuck or somebody else has an idea how those plug-in-lids were looking.

 

Cheers

Peter

[Dowmer]

Let’s not forget too, that when the chase guns were actually used “in a chase” they would have angled them as far forward as possible to get a shot off.  So they would have been angled with the muzzle forward, rather than perpendicular to the port side.  Which would have made unique circumstances for serving and handling as well.

 

 

 

 

[Blue Ensign]

Cheers guys for your input, nothing seems to work well in relation to that port side gun, whatever you do something gets in the way to impede operation. There barely seems room to move  the bow guns  past the windlass to change position.

It would seem logical Peter to use temporary boards to close ports, but then our logic would say that the gun shouldn't be there, and it would be sensible to have lids on the bow ports.

I think Chuck worked on the basis of available evidence in relation to Cheerful rather than indulge in  assumptions, to produce a model based on the actual plans, and contemporary models.

 

If nothing else it provides a talking point for we that are interested in the minutiae of such things.🙂

 

B.E.

 

[vossiewulf]

I've looked at as many contemporary cutter models as I can find, and I've never seen a gun port lid of any kind on any of them. And all have bow ports, and virtually all of them look as if it would be nearly impossible to operate a gun from there, and many are such that you'd have had to lift the gun and carriage just to get them to the bow ports. So like B.E. and others, I'm at a loss as to why they are that way, and consistently so when there is written evidence that they actually were used. It's a conundrum that is unfortunately unlikely to be resolved without the use of a Delorean going 88mph with a Mr. Fusion powerplant attached to the back.

[Old Collingwood]

Looks like there might be a bit of wiggle room going from these plans from this build pic.

 

OC.

 

[Cabbie]

On 4/20/2019 at 12:36 PM, vossiewulf said:

I've looked at as many contemporary cutter models as I can find, and I've never seen a gun port lid of any kind on any of them.

Thanks Vossie i have been wondering about what to do about lids, leave them off sounds good to me.

Rick showed me a drawing of the Mermaid with a cannon sticking out of the stern port (which I can't find now)

That will do me.

I have been looking back through your log BE magnificent looking model. I will be coming back here

to find out how to go about mine.

Cheers Chris

 

[Cabbie]

Now for a Newbies question. How is the water meant to clear from the deck of these boats?

When i did my swift i put in slots to clear the seawater.

Thanks Chris

[Blue Ensign]

Gives a false impression that photo O.C. the port side position is very crowded once the gun is in place.

Thank you Chris for looking in; in answer to your question, on Cheerful there are only the scuppers, four of which run along the  waterway. I would imagine these would be very wet boats to operate.

 

B.E.

[Cabbie]

Thanks BE, now please excuse me whilst i go and look up scuppers.

[Ferit]

Super net, clean work BE... 

 

I don’t understand why they had not fixed the bowsprit on the middle to provide equal room on each side... 1/7 is a big ratio...

[Blue Ensign]

Not one of my build photo’s posted by OC, Ferit, looks like Chuck’s super clean work to me. One of the risks of confusion when non related build photo’s are randomly put in a log.

On the question of the Bowsprit position , nearly all British cutters of the period had the Bowsprit offset. Probably has something to do with the fact that the Bowsprit was moveable.

Non naval or customs cutters were required to have a Bowsprit of restricted length and fixed, resulting in a speed disadvantage, or that was the theory.

 

B. E.

[Ferit]

Hi B.E.

I'm familiar with your level of craftsmanship and knowledge from the days of your super work HMS Pegasus. I am sorry for the confusion. ☹

Confusing two magnificent works could be forgiven. It would be embarrassing if one was good and the other was a bad one. It's a mess, but yours is no different than the other.

 

In those days, Bowsprit could be both in the middle and removable. To lose an extra cannon just because of the shape was strange to me...

[Blue Ensign]

Post 83

Completing the deck fittings

With the guns completed the remaining deck fittings are added;

I have also busied myself making a stub Bowsprit which will remain in place if I decide not to rig her.

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I painted and weathered the Bowsprit retaining fids to represent iron which I thought more apppropriate than wood.

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Pumps. The pump handles are now coloured to represent iron. I used toned down black paint and brown weathering powder to slightly change the look.

 

Belaying pins.

From the plans 9mm o/a length 3.5mm heads. As suggested by Chuck I used 3/64” x 3/64”  Boxwood square stock.

How do you make belay pins, the answer is very carefully.

These are truly fine little items and I only have to give them a hard look for them to snap usually just when I reach the point of near completion.

I am carving these by hand using a very sharp N0 11 scalpel blade, and my success rate is currently around 1 in 3.

I have doubts that the stems will hold good under any sort of pressure so I may have to increase the diameter and enlarge the holes in the pin rack.

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I did retro add the hoops at the axletrees of the carronades which was a bit tricky but achieved insitu using micro drills and flexible awls.

I thought in retrospect that as the deck rings were in place to take the training tackles they should be there.

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The Winch in place together with the stub mast.

Not much to do with the mast, apart from adding the boom saddle and mast cleats.

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I fashioned the saddle on the mill and used Chuck's  7mm cleats to complete the job.

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The chimney is covered with micro lead foil to represent metal.

Need to generally check her over now, and give her a dusting.

 

B.E. 22/04/2019

 

[Old Collingwood]

23 hours ago, Blue Ensign said:

Not one of my build photo’s posted by OC, Ferit, looks like Chuck’s super clean work to me. One of the risks of confusion when non related build photo’s are randomly put in a log.

On the question of the Bowsprit position , nearly all British cutters of the period had the Bowsprit offset. Probably has something to do with the fact that the Bowsprit was moveable.

Non naval or customs cutters were required to have a Bowsprit of restricted length and fixed, resulting in a speed disadvantage, or that was the theory.

 

B. E.

Sorry for the confusion  - I went googling for plans or photos and found the one I posted as part of a  pdf  guide to building the ship think it was Syren.

 

Once again sorry for any confusion.

 

OC.

[Blue Ensign]

Post 84

A significant milestone is reached

So here she is some seventeen months since the keel was laid.

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Whether I proceed to mast and rig her is undecided but there is still a fair bit of fiddling to do before I consider her complete.

 

B.E.

24/04/2019

 

 

[Barbossa]

Hi BE,

Whatever you're to decide : another jewel to complete a brilliant collection.

Although I tend to go for fully rigged ships, this build obviously demonstrates what a superb cutter this is.

Your craftmanship & dedication to this hobby is stunning

[Martin W]

I can certainly understand the interest in leaving your Cheerful unrigged:  there are lots of details to look at here, and if space is an issue, an unrigged build definitely has its attraction.  This is a fine piece of work, BE, and IF I ever finish my Fly, I'll return to this log as a tutorial in what might show up next on my work bench.

 

Any thoughts on your next project?

 

But I wonder that you didn't shape the belaying pins on your lathe? 

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

[Chuck]

Beautifully done.  It looks fantastic unrigged.  Maybe add a small jolly boat or cutter with the display which would be very interesting on the unrigged version.

 

I do hope you enjoyed building her!!!  I thought she was a delight to build.