Chris Watton and Vanguard Models news and updates

[davyboy]

Glenn,make your own. Sand down a piece of Pearwood and mix the dust into a thick paste with sanding sealer or model aircraft dope. You are then good to go.

I did this and it worked perfectly and is virtually invisible.

 

Dave 

[chris watton]

I just use common or garden water based 'medium colour' filler, which I buy from my local DIY shop.

[Glenn-UK]

Hello Chris

H.M. Brig Sloop Speedy kit has arrived safe and sound. I was very impressed with the care taken with the packaging of the kit. My first impression is that the material supplied all look to be very good quality. The instruction book and plans are very well put together and contain a wealth of information.

 

I have dry fitted bulkheads 2 to 15 to the false keel last night as a test and I am very pleased to report that the slots did not require any sanding which is an added bonus. They were all a perfect fit which was brilliant. I plan to dry fit a few more parts later today to get a general idea of the build process for this kit before starting the build in earnest. I have noted the build estimate of 50 to 70 hours. I plan to take it slow and steady (which is very unlike me!) so I fully expect my build time will exceed this.

 

I have started a build log where I will chart the progress of the build.

 

Edited February 12, 2020 by glennard2523

[Vane]

50h? That sounds impossible. Building ships with nice finish usually takes hundreds of hours. There are many solutions in Chris design that speeds up the process but things like the 2nd planking cant be rushed without ruin the quality.

[glbarlow]

17 hours ago, SpyGlass said:

Chris has not quite grasped how slow mere mortals are compared to him!    Multiply by 5 or more and you might be closer to what you will actually acheive.  Its not just the build time - its the learning process.  Though this is a kit which "assists" the builder quite a bit

 

50 hours is about how long it takes me to lay the first plank😂🤣

[Blue Ensign]

Hi Chris,  something has just come to my mind re your new Alert laser deck.

In my original kit you had two holes afore the Main hatch to feed the anchor cables below deck. I believe they are called Navel pipes.

I see you have replicated them in your new laser deck, yet in your new wooden gratings you have the cut out for the cables to go below deck.

I don't think navel pipes were appropriate to ships of this period, and I planked over the ones on my build.

Just a heads up in case you wish to remove them from your laser deck.

 

Regards,

 

B.E.

[chris watton]

Yes, the laser etched deck was amended, I have attached a pic to show this.

 

I have mostly been getting on with the two small kits, but today I turned my attention to the Bristol and other vessels cannon carriages. Attached is a pic of the Bristol (64th) 24 Pounder carriage, laser cut and etched in 2mm pear, with the cast resin barrel. The pic showing the laser cut parts in the sheet are the 24 pounders (the larger of the two sets) and 32 pounder carriages in 72nd.

 

I have done a few gratings sets too, plus the decks for the two small kits, which I have shown here, as this is their final kit form.

Edited February 14, 2020 by chris watton

[glbarlow]

I’m sure the Bristol will be another great model, but after the Vanguard I’m not sure I’m ever going to be up for another big gun ship. Do you have any nice frigates on your radar, one of Cochrane’s perhaps?

 

I’m reading the book you recommended, he was a fascinating guy.  The Imperieuse would be a fun build...he said hopefully...:-)

[ASAT]

Glenn, you might be swayed when you see how the Bristol and Vanguard will be completely different builds, if it is designed like his Victory it will almost be a POF - at least it will all be interlocking mdf framing and each deck is completely built up, no dummy guns, no solid bulkheads, gunport positions exactly framed and in place by the design.... no copper plates (on Bristol) 👍 should be an awesome experience - at least for me, I have been excited about this one since Chris envisioned Vanguard Models.... and realistically it only has 12 more guns than a Minerva Class frigate 😀

[Blue Ensign]

Like the inclusion of the bolt holes in the gun carriage trucks, Chris, nice touch.👍

It's something I like to add, but  it's a fiddly, time consuming  business by hand with micro drills.

 

Cheers,

 

B.E.

[chris watton]

7 hours ago, glbarlow said:

I’m sure the Bristol will be another great model, but after the Vanguard I’m not sure I’m ever going to be up for another big gun ship. Do you have any nice frigates on your radar, one of Cochrane’s perhaps?

 

I’m reading the book you recommended, he was a fascinating guy.  The Imperieuse would be a fun build...he said hopefully...:-)

There are a few frigates I would like to do right now, to be honest, and my potential future development plan has 4 in mind. I wanted to develop one next, but I have spent quite a bit on Bristol/Portland Class development already, and need to do this/these first. (stern and figurehead decoration already done, plus cannon barrels)

2 hours ago, Blue Ensign said:

Like the inclusion of the bolt holes in the gun carriage trucks, Chris, nice touch.👍

It's something I like to add, but  it's a fiddly, time consuming  business by hand with micro drills.

 

Cheers,

 

B.E.

Cheers I am adding these 'bolt heads' in the trucks to all sizes of carriage parts now.

[chris watton]

18 minutes ago, SpyGlass said:

I see you have gone into a dichotomy beween round and square axle holes in the wheels !!😀

Yes! lol I tried the round versions for the new 24 pounders, and they seem fine, so will change all square holes to round for future cutting.

 

Problem could be when you have 26-28 carriages to make up for each deck, that is a lot of axle filing to get them to fit through the round holes..

[Blue Ensign]

Square holes would be fine for below deck guns, but for 'show' guns round is the way to go.

Rounding has never been an issue for me, but the axles should be sufficiently long to allow for drilling for the axle pin before trimming.😉

 

B.E.

[glbarlow]

5 hours ago, chris watton said:

Yes! lol I tried the round versions for the new 24 pounders, and they seem fine, so will change all square holes to round for future cutting.

 

Problem could be when you have 26-28 carriages to make up for each deck, that is a lot of axle filing to get them to fit through the round holes..

This is a small thing but great for modelers, I like to build but making round axels out of square ones many many times not so much fun. Thanks for this “innovation.” 

[glbarlow]

6 hours ago, chris watton said:

There are a few frigates I would like to do right now, to be honest, and my potential future development plan has 4 in mind. I wanted to develop one next, but I have spent quite a bit on Bristol/Portland Class development already, and need to do this/these first. (stern and figurehead decoration already done, plus cannon barrels)

Cheers I am adding these 'bolt heads' in the trucks to all sizes of carriage parts now.

Sounds like a great plan. I’ll look forward to watching your development of the Bristol, I’ll probably buy it and wait for a frigate too.  I think I’ll be set for the next couple of years:-)

[glbarlow]

12 hours ago, ASAT said:

Glenn, you might be swayed when you see how the Bristol and Vanguard will be completely different builds, if it is designed like his Victory it will almost be a POF - at least it will all be interlocking mdf framing and each deck is completely built up, no dummy guns, no solid bulkheads, gunport positions exactly framed and in place by the design.... no copper plates (on Bristol) 👍 should be an awesome experience - at least for me, I have been excited about this one since Chris envisioned Vanguard Models.... and realistically it only has 12 more guns than a Minerva Class frigate 😀

As long as no copper is involved...🤣

I’ll look forward to seeing the different design and likely will be a customer despite my whining about big ships😏

 

[chris watton]

I too am not so keen on the copper, I prefer the off-white for the overall aesthetic.

 

OK, I have been working on these two small kit, partly to try an nail some new aspects of design. Especially the way the second planking meets with the keel parts. With this very much in mind, I have designed these kits with a 'beading edge' to be glued into position all along both side of the keel after the first planking has been applied. I have included little location pegs for each pattern, so there is no chance of any of the parts slipping/moving while the glue cures. I think it will work, but these two models are double ended, which means the modeller will have to be very exact with their plank lengths or, as I will likely suggest, lay each plank in two lengths, starting each and the bow and stern.. 

[glbarlow]

I think this is a great idea, us average guys always have fun with rabbits and bearding lines...not me.  I look forward to how this turns out applied to a larger model.

[chris watton]

Haven't updated for a while, but I have been busy, overtime at work, and me deciding it would be a very good idea to develop one  simple little beginners kit, no problem, I thought...

 

Things never quite work out how you first envisage, however. I thought I would do the minimum for beginners kit, making it cheap and easy. But I just couldn't help myself, and kept adding more parts and using better materials. These are the first kits I have done so all design and laser cutting is done completely in-house. My initial reason was for me to get used to my laser machine, rather than working on something more complex, do something a little simpler. I had intended to do just the Fifie, but I saw the lines of a Zulu and figured it would compliment the Fifie perfectly, so I decided to develop that too, in concert with the Fifie.

 

The (80 foot) Zulu is named Lady Isabella and the (70 foot) Fifie is called Lady Eleanor. They are both late 19th/early 20th Century Scottish fishing vessels, built for the rough northern seas. The Zulu has around a third more parts than the Fifie, but both follow the standard designs, but with more helpful stuff added for beginners. Both have a laser etched deck, laser cut skeleton in MDF (tried poplar ply, too weak and birch ply, too thick, well over 3mm), and the rest of the wooden parts are all pear wood laser cut, with the decks being in 1mm limewood. Each has a brass PE sheet, first planking in 1x5mm limewood and second in 1x4mm pear wood, and masts, spars and a couple of other things in walnut.

 

I am just waiting for my sample pre-stitched sails to arrive, two separate sails for the Fifie and three for the Zulu. I figured that just because it's aimed more at beginners, that doesn't have to mean it should be just a box of cheap crap, but hopefully, a project most can enjoy without much bother.  The pic of the bulwarks show the inner sides, with all positions for the pre cut timberheads above deck level marked out, so no need for measuring.

 

And this is where I am up to. I am currently laser cutting the wood files, as all have now been added to the prototypes and all are good.

 

All this because I thought it would be a good idea to quickly develop a cheap little kit...

[glbarlow]

Nice looking little boats - I'm thinking that side moulding might be a challenge for a beginner but I'm sure you explain it well in your instructions. This is the kind of kit I'd like to get my grandson when he gets a bit older, I wish you the best of luck in finding a market for it. There is just so much mass produced, but heavily marketed crap, on the places and website beginners would go to look I hope they can separate from all that to find a kit of this quality. I'm a fan.

[chris watton]

8 minutes ago, glbarlow said:

Nice looking little boats - I'm thinking that side moulding might be a challenge for a beginner but I'm sure you explain it well in your instructions. This is the kind of kit I'd like to get my grandson when he gets a bit older, I wish you the best of luck in finding a market for it. There is just so much mass produced, but heavily marketed crap, on the places and website beginners would go to look I hope they can separate from all that to find a kit of this quality. I'm a fan.

Cheers :). If anything, at least these helped me get to know my laser machine and it's capabilities (and mine) a little better. The bulwarks are fine, the pear worked great once soaked for a few minutes, a lot better than I first thought, in fact. If it didn't work, I would have just planked the area from the top of the bulkhead tabs down to the keel. As it is, however, the pear is very pliable and I had no problems just dry clamping them in place whilst the glue dried..

[glbarlow]

I was referring to the outside of the hull. I know we just glue on the strips, but for beginners to get them lined up and spaced properly will be a good test.  I really hope they sell well, its important beginners have a good first experience. For me, although I'd built the Blue Nose first, I really learned the good stuff from building the Virginia AVS using a detailed practicum from Bob Hunt. I still use that for reference on rigging methods (that I forget between models).  So my recommendation is the model itself is of course important, but the accompanying instructions - which you are really good at. The beginner won't have a clue about using plans, but learning all the steps and how to do that will lead them to their next purchase of the Alert or Speedy 🙂

[stuglo]

these look excellent "starter" kits -learning and understanding, satisfaction and a good-looking result without at a moderate outlay including simple hand tools. If this is the philosophy, a mighty achievement and incentive to newbies .  

[VTHokiEE]

These look very interesting, I may have overlooked it, is the scale 1:64? I have always admired the Amati Fifie you designed.

 

I may need to relocate to the UK to save on shipping 😂

Edited March 7, 2020 by VTHokiEE
Typo

[chris watton]

5 minutes ago, VTHokiEE said:

These look very interesting, I may have overlooked it, is the scale 1:64? I have always admiring the Amati Fifie you designed.

 

I may need to relocate to the UK to save on shipping 😂

Thanks!

 

Scale is 64th, I think the one I did for Amati was 35th scale, memory hazy. Both these new (and smaller) kits are pure sailing vessels, with no motor. I have been in contact with James Pottinger, an expert of these vessels, to help get the details and overall look right.

[BobG]

2 hours ago, chris watton said:

I figured that just because it's aimed more at beginners, that doesn't have to mean it should be just a box of cheap crap, but hopefully, a project most can enjoy without much bother.

This is absolutely true! Thank you so much for realizing this and deciding to make these high quality "beginner boats." It is the right decision and I hope it pays off grandly for you.

 

I consider myself a relative beginner having completed the Midwest Indian Canoe and the the Batelina by MarisStella. I am currently working on the Medway Longboat by Syren and I'm learning a lot. High quality materials, excellent instructions and historical accuracy are important to me but those qualities are not often easy to find in beginner and intermediate kits. As we all know, the majority of those models do more to discourage success with poor materials, confusing instructions and fantasy accuracy. I think these poor quality kits probably do more to discourage beginning modelers than inspire them to continue in the hobby. Models like your Fifie and Zulu are a breath of fresh air and will give beginners and experienced modelers alike a chance to build a high quality, smaller model that they are proud of. Nothing breeds success like success! 

 

I hope that you will continue to design more models of the smaller, working boats like these and even working vessels on a larger scale like the Amati Fifie. I'm very interested in these types of boats from the Mediterranean, Britain and the USA. They were the backbone of many small, coastal communities and have an important place in seafaring history. I think they are beautiful in their own right and high quality kits of these boats are not easy to find.

 

Do you have any idea when these models will be available to the public?

 

 

[VTHokiEE]

5 hours ago, chris watton said:

using better materials

I wanted to emphasize your materials, I had to buy extra lime wood planks (because I stink at planking) and the planks I bought were no where near the quality of your wood. I really enjoy your material selection (now to learn how not to make a mess of them 😁) and I’m glad to pay for the quality.

[chris watton]

3 hours ago, BobG said:

This is absolutely true! Thank you so much for realizing this and deciding to make these high quality "beginner boats." It is the right decision and I hope it pays off grandly for you.

 

I consider myself a relative beginner having completed the Midwest Indian Canoe and the the Batelina by MarisStella. I am currently working on the Medway Longboat by Syren and I'm learning a lot. High quality materials, excellent instructions and historical accuracy are important to me but those qualities are not often easy to find in beginner and intermediate kits. As we all know, the majority of those models do more to discourage success with poor materials, confusing instructions and fantasy accuracy. I think these poor quality kits probably do more to discourage beginning modelers than inspire them to continue in the hobby. Models like your Fifie and Zulu are a breath of fresh air and will give beginners and experienced modelers alike a chance to build a high quality, smaller model that they are proud of. Nothing breeds success like success! 

 

I hope that you will continue to design more models of the smaller, working boats like these and even working vessels on a larger scale like the Amati Fifie. I'm very interested in these types of boats from the Mediterranean, Britain and the USA. They were the backbone of many small, coastal communities and have an important place in seafaring history. I think they are beautiful in their own right and high quality kits of these boats are not easy to find.

 

Do you have any idea when these models will be available to the public?

 

 

Thank you! I will certainly do another pair of small boats at some point, I have heard only good things about MarisStella and Syren, so you clearly choose well. I have never build a US based kit, all have been from the European manufacturers, but I am talking a long time ago since I bought and built one of those kits. I always remember thinking that no matter what the subject, they always seemed to look very similar to each other when built, always the same materials (that really needed replacing), same fittings etc, even for ships that were 100 or 200 years apart from each other, historically.  In my mind, I still equate 'Beginners Kit' to cheap 'n' nasty, with emphasis on getting as many sold as possible, even though the modeller would really need to replace most of the kit contents, easily doubling the initial price, if they wanted a fighting chance of doing a decent job. I am talking a couple of decades ago, so not sure if things have changed...

26 minutes ago, VTHokiEE said:

I wanted to emphasize your materials, I had to buy extra lime wood planks (because I stink at planking) and the planks I bought were no where near the quality of your wood. I really enjoy your material selection (now to learn how not to make a mess of them 😁) and I’m glad to pay for the quality.

Cheers - but next time, let me know and I will send you more planks, I really wouldn't have minded at all!

[chris watton]

Here is the complete suite of laser cut and etched parts for the Zulu, Lady Isabella:

2 x 3mm MDF sheets

1 x 3mm Pear sheet

1 x 2mm pear sheet

3 x 1mm pear sheets

1 x 2mm acetate stand

1 x 0.8mm ply sub deck

1 x 1mm limewood laser etched deck (although the one shown is 0.6mm maple veneer, which may be an option)

1 x 0.4mm PE brass sheet

[BobG]

Chris, even though you are making these kits to appeal primarily to beginners, the more detail that you can add that make these boats as realistic and interesting as possible would, in my opinion, make them even more attractive to beginners and even experienced modelers as well.  I think most less experienced modelers can accomplish quite a bit when they are given accurate, detailed and thorough instructions that have good, step-by-step photos instead of the all too common brief, often poorly translated instructions with poor photos that are maddeningly confusing and too often just plain wrong.  

 

One of the most attractive things about models that are simpler in overall design compared to large, complex models with lots of rigging is that there isn't so much going on all at once. The beauty of these boats lies in the more simple, uncluttered lines that they have and one can more easily see the details very clearly. They can be very beautiful when done well but, as you have said, you have to have good, high quality materials to begin with.