Steve G Posted November 3, 2021 Share #1 Posted November 3, 2021 Hi. I'm new here and am about to retire from work and fancy a good long term project, so model ship building is my choice. I attempted to make a Billings Norsk Love some 30 odd years ago, but moved house and never got re-started, but, in truth, it was a bit of an overwhelming task for a first build. So, I'm looking to buy a kit, but the choices are mind boggling. I want something that is challenging enough to keep my interest, but not overwhelming in complexity, and something that I wish, halfway through that I had chosen something else. I've been looking at three, Lady Nelson, Pickle and Sherbourne. I've read quite a few build logs but would appreciate any advice or alternative suggestions. Thanks in advance Steve Ryland Craze, EricWilliamMarshall, thibaultron and 3 others 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccoyle Posted November 3, 2021 Share #2 Posted November 3, 2021 Welcome, Steve! Those are all good kits, but a bit dated in terms of design. Chris Watton, who designed Lady Nelson and Sherbourne, now runs his own company, Vanguard Models, and has released some excellent designs that are geared toward beginning modelers. You can check out his kit offerings here. Chris also carries kits from Master Korabel, which are also great kits, well engineered and including pre-spiled (i.e. shaped) planking, but in a smaller scale (1/72) that beginners may have trouble with. Lots of other good choices out there as well. Cutters, like the kits you listed, make for good first models. mtaylor, thibaultron, JeffT and 5 others 8 Quote Chris Coyle Greer, South Carolina When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk. - Tuco Current builds: Brigantine Phoenix, Hawker Hurricane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robdurant Posted November 3, 2021 Share #3 Posted November 3, 2021 Hi Steve, I've built both Pickle and Sherborne, and was so glad that I started with Pickle (my first wooden ship build), and THEN went onto Sherborne. The instructions on Pickle are way way way better, consisting of photos, advice, and comprehensive instructions. The instructions for Sherborne are far more brief, and text only alongside the plans. They were okay, but I felt I had to rely heavily on what I'd learned building Pickle. I haven't built Lady Nelson, so I can't advise on that one, I'm afraid. You can check out the instructions for Pickle on the Jotika website, here: http://www.jotika-ltd.com/Pages/1024768/Manuals_Front.htm , and you'll find lots of build logs on the website here to help you along. However, as Chris pointed out, the kits that Chris Watton is now designing (for his Vanguard Models company) are another step up in terms of the help they give you to ensure you get to the other end with a model you can be proud of. I'm building Lady Isabella at the moment, and the instructions and kit design are quite amazing. Again, you can download the manuals from his website (e.g. scroll down to the "download manual" link on https://vanguardmodels.co.uk/product/order-zulu-lady-isabella/ ) - and you'll see how far these models have come on since you were building Norske Love. Regardless of what decision you make, you'll find a lot of friendly help here on this website, so welcome! Rob EricWilliamMarshall, JeffT, mtaylor and 2 others 5 Quote Current build(s): Plymouth Ketch-Rigged Trawler "Erycina" (Vanguard Models, 1:64) Paused on the lofting floor: HMS Bristol Portland class 50-Gun Ship (Scratch build, 1:64) Paused builds: Barque "Stefano" (MarisStella, 1:63) / Trawler "Nordkap" (Billings Boats, 1:50) / HMS Triton 28 gun frigate cross section (1:64) / F138, HMS Rapid Type 15 Fast Anti-Submarine Frigate (based on above Deans Marine hull, semi-scratch, 1:96) / HMS Mercury (1779) (Shipyard Models, Paper, 1:96) Previous builds: ἈΘΗΝΑ (Athena) (6th Century B.C.) Greek Bireme (Dusek, 1:72) / Zulu "Lady Isabella" (Vanguard Models, 1:64) / HMS Ethalion (1797) from HMS Diana (Caldercraft, 1:64) / HM Cutter Sherbourne (Caldercraft, 1:64) / Completed partially built Royal Yacht Caroline (Panart, 1:47) / HM Schooner Pickle (Caldercraft, 1:64) / M32, HMS Cottesmore MCMV (Sirmar / Fleetscale, Semi-scratch, 1:48) / D98, HMS York, Type 42 Destroyer (Dragon with White Ensign Photoetch, 1:700) / K166, HMCS Snowberry Flower Class Corvette (Revell, 1:72) / R97, HMS Grenville Fleet Destroyer (Deans Marine, 1:96) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobG Posted November 3, 2021 Share #4 Posted November 3, 2021 As Chris and Rob have stated, you can't go wrong with a Vanguard model. The Fifie or the Zulu would be perfect. You will not find better step-by-step instructions. JeffT, Ryland Craze and mtaylor 3 Quote Bob Garcia "Measure once, cuss twice!" Current Builds: Hms Brig-Sloop Flirt 1782 - Vanguard Models Pen Duick - Artesania Latina 1:28 Completed: Medway Longboat 1742 - Syren Ship Model Co. Member of the Nautical Research Guild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve G Posted November 3, 2021 Author Share #5 Posted November 3, 2021 Well,that's three nil to Vanguard Models! Thanks for the input, I'll have a proper look at the options he offers. They are considerably more expensive than the Caldercraft ones I was looking at, but I suppose you get what you pay for. Just been looking at a couple of build logs and they do look rather splendid and I suppose having the main man on this site to shout at when things go wrong is always a bonus 😉 Thanks guys mtaylor, JeffT, BobG and 3 others 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Black Posted November 3, 2021 Share #6 Posted November 3, 2021 Steve, welcome to MSW. I look forward to seeing whatever Vanguard model you choose in a build log. Ryland Craze, mtaylor and JeffT 3 Quote Current Builds: Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia Completed: Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve G Posted November 3, 2021 Author Share #7 Posted November 3, 2021 OK. Just had a real good look at his selection. Ideally, I'd like to build a 'Trafalgar' type boat, but as effectively this will be my first proper build I am considering the Lady Eleanor, I don't know what you guys think, but it's important for me to be able to make a decent fist if the job as I know that if I start to cock it up it'll go in the bin, and this model looks doable. Your thoughts would be very welcome. mtaylor, Keith Black, Ryland Craze and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTHokiEE Posted November 3, 2021 Share #8 Posted November 3, 2021 17 minutes ago, Steve G said: Ideally, I'd like to build a 'Trafalgar' type boat I realize it is more expensive, but in this situation I would consider building the Alert. It can help your drive to continue and correct if you're building something that you really want. I do like his working ships and they would be a great choice as well, but if you want cannons you want cannons 🙂 CDR_Ret, AJohnson, Keith Black and 4 others 7 Quote Current Build: HM Sloop Echo 1781 (First Scratch Build) Previous Builds: HM Cutter Alert, Sharpie Schooner, Chesapeake Bay Flattie, Half-Hull (NRG) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve G Posted November 3, 2021 Author Share #9 Posted November 3, 2021 7 minutes ago, VTHokiEE said: I realize it is more expensive, but in this situation I would consider building the Alert. It can help your drive to continue and correct if you're building something that you really want. I do like his working ships and they would be a great choice as well, but if you want cannons you want cannons 🙂 Cheers. It's not the cost so much as having the determination to finish the project. I'd love to do a victory, but I know its well beyond my competence level and frustration would kick in. If I could do one I could actually finish, I think it would give me the confidence to attempt something slightly more ambitious. BikerMart, mtaylor, Keith Black and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BikerMart Posted November 3, 2021 Share #10 Posted November 3, 2021 Finish the project? I am aware of that concept, just not familiar with it! Chuck Seiler, GrandpaPhil, Ryland Craze and 5 others 1 7 Quote Finished: Billings Nordkap / Billings Boulogne Etaples / Billings Evelyn / Billings Elbjorn In progress: Billings HMS Endeavour / Billings HMS Bounty / Caldercraft HMS Pickle / Amati HMS Vanguard / Caldercraft HMS Victory / Caldercraft HMS Badger / Caldercraft HMS Diana / Caldercraft HMS Snake / Amati HMS Pegasus In the dim distant past: Model Slipway Wyeforce / Mountfleet Models Boston Typhoon (abandoned build) / Bluejacket Charles P. Notman (abandoned) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Seiler Posted November 3, 2021 Share #11 Posted November 3, 2021 12 minutes ago, BikerMart said: Finish the project? I am aware of that concept, just not familiar with it! I second that. I like doing ships in a bottle, but I usually only get to the part where I empty the bottle. Keith Black, mtaylor, Malazan and 2 others 1 4 Quote Chuck Seiler San Diego Ship Modelers Guild Nautical Research Guild Current Build:: Colonial Schooner SULTANA (scratch from Model Expo Plans), Hanseatic Cog Wutender Hund, John Smith Shallop Completed: Missouri Riverboat FAR WEST (1876) Scratch, 1776 Gunboat PHILADELPHIA (Scratch 1/4 scale-Model Shipways plans) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTHokiEE Posted November 3, 2021 Share #12 Posted November 3, 2021 1 hour ago, Steve G said: If I could do one I could actually finish, I understand that sentiment; what are your expectations on how long you would like a project to take? I'm somewhat of a slow builder and it took me just over a year to complete the Alert. If you're looking for a smaller project than I would certainly consider the working boats for a first go. Keith Black, Steve G, mtaylor and 3 others 6 Quote Current Build: HM Sloop Echo 1781 (First Scratch Build) Previous Builds: HM Cutter Alert, Sharpie Schooner, Chesapeake Bay Flattie, Half-Hull (NRG) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James H Posted November 3, 2021 Share #13 Posted November 3, 2021 1 hour ago, Steve G said: I am considering the Lady Eleanor, I don't know what you guys think, but it's important for me to be able to make a decent fist if the job as I know that if I start to cock it up it'll go in the bin, and this model looks doable. Your thoughts would be very welcome. I did the instructions for Lady Eleanor. That is a very simple kit which you would find to be a nice subject to cut your teeth on. Timber is also pearwood, hence the relative pricing. A very sweet kit indeed. Steve G, mtaylor, Gregory and 3 others 6 Quote SAY NO TO PIRACY. SUPPORT ORIGINAL IDEAS AND MANUFACTURERS. KEEP IT REAL! On the bench: HMS Indefatigable - 1794 (production prototype), Vanguard Models - 1:64. On Hold: HMS Winchelsea Double Capstan - Syren Ship Models - 1:48 Finished US Baltimore Armed Privateer Schooner Grecian 1812 (prototype) - Vanguard Models - 1:64 'Zulu' fishing boat, Vanguard Models - 1:64 Fifie' fishing boat, Vanguard Models - 1:64 HMS Flirt 1782, Vanguard Models - 1:64. Duchess of Kingston c.1780 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 HMS Sphinx 1775, Vanguard Models - 1:64 ERYCINA - Plymouth Ketch-Rigged Trawler 1882, Vanguard Models - 1:64. 'Nisha' - The Brixham 'Mumble-Bee' - Vanguard Models 1:64 'Saucy Jack' fishing boat - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Ranger 'Barking Fish Carrier' - 1864 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Indeterminate: Tender Avos - Master Korabel - 1:72. H.M.S. Victory (production prototype) - Amati - 1:64. HMS Granado 1742 (cross section) - CAFModel - 1:48 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffT Posted November 3, 2021 Share #14 Posted November 3, 2021 Welcome to MSW. I'll throw in a vote for vanguard also. Lady Eleanor is a great kit to start with Ryland Craze, Keith Black, Steve G and 2 others 5 Quote Jeff In progress: Medway Longboat 1742 - Syren Ship Model Company -1/2" scale USS Constitution - Model Shipways - Scale 1:76 HMS Granado - CAF Model - 1:48 HMS Sphinx - Vanguard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtaylor Posted November 3, 2021 Share #15 Posted November 3, 2021 Welcome to MSW, Steve. The general thought for a new builder is simple first. Something with no masts, then 1 or maybe 2, then go for the bigger ones. There's also this topic which is full of good advice and suggestions. https://modelshipworld.com/topic/18657-new-to-ship-modelling-but-what-do-you-build-first/ You've received some great pointers already. Do some reading of pinned topics here on MSW, One last bit of advice... don't buy tools until you need them. There's been advice (see pinned topics) and also there's the database (upper right side under the "More" heading) which has a lot of answers for those starting out. Once you've decided (free to ask questions in the appropriate forum area) and you're ready to start... open a build log. It's probably best way to get answers to questions during building and also to meet other builders. Steve G, BobG, Keith Black and 2 others 5 Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkiBee Posted November 3, 2021 Share #16 Posted November 3, 2021 @steveg In my opinion the boat you choose has a lot to do with what your experience is. Have you built many models before, plastic or wood? Keith Black, mtaylor and Ryland Craze 3 Quote Current Projects: Completed Projects: Phantom New York Pilot Boat - Model Shipways - 1:96 Muscongus Bay Lobster Smack - Model Shipways - 1:24 18th Century Long Boat - Model Shipways - 1:48 Norwegian Sailing Pram - Model Shipways - 1:12 Lowell Grand Banks Dory - Model Shipways - 1:24 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Lad Posted November 3, 2021 Share #17 Posted November 3, 2021 Hello Steve, and a warm welcome to the forum from 'Down Under'. Whichever kit you finally decide on, you'll find that there's a heap of help and advice available for you right here. John mtaylor and Keith Black 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve G Posted November 4, 2021 Author Share #18 Posted November 4, 2021 I'd like to thank you all for the brilliant responses to my enquiry. I am pretty much decided on doing the Lady Eleanor now. I admit when I first looked at it I thought it was a bit TOO simple and basic. However, looking through a couple of the build logs soon put me straight! They are all fabulously informative but I have to say that the one done by 'Blue Ensign ' is truly remarkable, mind blowing in fact. I'll order it next week but I won't start the build till mid December. Thanks again, you guys are brilliant. Steve Gregory, JeffT, Dean77 and 6 others 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccoyle Posted November 4, 2021 Share #19 Posted November 4, 2021 I think you will enjoy building that kit quite a bit more than your experience with Norske Love, and finishing even a relatively simple model is an enormous confidence builder. mtaylor, BobG and Keith Black 3 Quote Chris Coyle Greer, South Carolina When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk. - Tuco Current builds: Brigantine Phoenix, Hawker Hurricane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve G Posted November 4, 2021 Author Share #20 Posted November 4, 2021 Well, I first started back in the 70s. I had built and flown many aircraft kits and done a fair amount of plastic model making, but I was in our local model shop and they had a Billings Golden Hind. We'll, I just had to have it. There was no Internet in those days and I was pretty much on my own, but I really did make good progress with it despite very poor instructions and no laser cutting of parts, every one had to be cut from ply with a fretsaw. We decided to move house and I gave the partially built model to a friend to finish. He did quite well with it till it came to the rigging where he just gave up. In the early eighties I bought Norske Love and again made fairly good progress but again a house move put a stop to all that. The partially built Hull and planked decking is still in the loft of my house, I haven't seen it for about 30 years as access up there is not easy, but I'll dig it out at some point. I realise that these complex models are really beyond my competence, but I think (!) I could manage the one I have now chosen. Cheers VTHokiEE, SkiBee, JeffT and 3 others 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTHokiEE Posted November 4, 2021 Share #21 Posted November 4, 2021 Good luck and enjoy it! Steve G, Keith Black and mtaylor 3 Quote Current Build: HM Sloop Echo 1781 (First Scratch Build) Previous Builds: HM Cutter Alert, Sharpie Schooner, Chesapeake Bay Flattie, Half-Hull (NRG) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobG Posted November 4, 2021 Share #22 Posted November 4, 2021 Great choice to build the Lady Eleanor. BE's build log with be a great help too. He makes some of the best build logs here on MSW. Be sure and start a build log of your own when you begin to build her. Good luck, Steve! mtaylor, Keith Black and Steve G 3 Quote Bob Garcia "Measure once, cuss twice!" Current Builds: Hms Brig-Sloop Flirt 1782 - Vanguard Models Pen Duick - Artesania Latina 1:28 Completed: Medway Longboat 1742 - Syren Ship Model Co. Member of the Nautical Research Guild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtaylor Posted November 4, 2021 Share #23 Posted November 4, 2021 Good choice and I hope you enjoy building it. Many of us, myself included jumped in way over our heads early on. My first ship purchase was Billings' Vasa. I took one look at the contents on Christmas Day and put it aside. Started a lot simpler. A year later, I was deep in the Vasa. Keith Black, Steve G and BobG 3 Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve G Posted November 5, 2021 Author Share #24 Posted November 5, 2021 OK. I've just pressed the button on Lady Eleanor after exchanging a couple of emails with Chris. I was thinking of just ordering the kit sans sails in case I lost motivation halfway through, but I swiftly beat myself about the head with a wooden mallet and concluded that taking that course was basically setting myself up to fail. So, it is on the way (God help me). Steve PS: I bet I have the oldest x-acto knife handle in the world, its the plastic (Bakelite?) One that I got in 1967. Anyone beat that. Its a good today as ever it was. VTHokiEE, BobG, Keith Black and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Black Posted November 5, 2021 Share #25 Posted November 5, 2021 5 hours ago, Steve G said: Anyone beat that Steve, the hand that holds my X-Acto knife is almost 75 years old, can you beat that? mtaylor 1 Quote Current Builds: Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia Completed: Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobG Posted November 5, 2021 Share #26 Posted November 5, 2021 5 hours ago, Steve G said: PS: I bet I have the oldest x-acto knife handle in the world, its the plastic (Bakelite?) One that I got in 1967. Just make sure you have plenty of new, sharp #11 blades for it. That's the most useful blade for ship modeling. Steve G, Keith Black and mtaylor 3 Quote Bob Garcia "Measure once, cuss twice!" Current Builds: Hms Brig-Sloop Flirt 1782 - Vanguard Models Pen Duick - Artesania Latina 1:28 Completed: Medway Longboat 1742 - Syren Ship Model Co. Member of the Nautical Research Guild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Black Posted November 5, 2021 Share #27 Posted November 5, 2021 #'s 17 and 18 are also great blades Steve G, mtaylor and BobG 3 Quote Current Builds: Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia Completed: Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve G Posted November 5, 2021 Author Share #28 Posted November 5, 2021 1 hour ago, Keith Black said: Steve, the hand that holds my X-Acto knife is almost 75 years old, can you beat that? Not quite, just approaching 66. mtaylor and Keith Black 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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