Chris Watton and Vanguard Models news and updates Volume 2

[chris watton]

Here is my main laser machine cutting a new batch of Sphinx 1mm pear, almost 2 weeks for all parts, but almost all done, so plenty in stock. Laser to be joined by its bigger brother on Thursday!

[Tossedman]

I love watching a laser cut – and I use one here often. How much bigger or faster or more powerful will your new laser be?

 

Cheers,

 

Todd

Edited March 31 by Tossedman

[chris watton]

8 minutes ago, Tossedman said:

I love watching a laser cut – and I use one here often. How much bigger or faster or more powerful will your new laser be?

 

Cheers,

 

Todd

Working area not much bigger, 1016 X 610mm compared to the 960 x 610mm of my current machine. However, that extra length does mean I can put 12 x 100x500mm sheets on the bed, rather than 10 sheets, plus I won't have to cut off 50mm off the ends of my larger (1000mm long) sheets to get them to fit.

 

Current machine is an 80 Watt Sealed CO2 Laser, whereas the new one is 100 Watt (my first one, which is being part exchanged for the new one, is only a 40 Watt and a 635 x 458mm work area, so no good for Indy or Surprise, but got me started and it did cut the first few kits fine, if a little slow...)

[chris watton]

I had my new laser machine delivered and set up yesterday, a few teething problems, but to be sorted. I now have 2 large machines, with the new one picked specifically for the larger kits I have in mind in the future. This is by far the largest investment yet.

 

Damn, I need more space....

 

Pics are a little too bright, shutter doors were open and sun was shining in!

[JeffT]

Its a beast.

[usedtosail]

23 hours ago, chris watton said:

Damn, I need more space....

That's exactly what I say every time you release a new kit. Congratulations on the new machine.

[druxey]

Nice to see the most essential item in the shop: your coffee mug. Congrats on your new piece of kit.

[chris watton]

I have had quite a few enquiries regarding Surprise, asking if it is the film version.

 

No - it is NOT the film version. It is being developed using the original Admiralty plans of Surprise (Unité of 1794, captured 1796) and he sister, the French Sixth Rate frigate Tourterelle (1794) 

 

If I were to develop Surprise as per the film, Master and Commander, the hull would be almost 20% smaller, being more Sphinx size, it would be around 18 foot shorter along the gun deck. This is because the film Surprise is that of a replica of a Seaford Class 20 gun ship of the 1750's, somewhat smaller than the actual HMS Surprise - and by the tail end of the 1790's, Surprise was considered very small for a frigate (hence why some refer to her and her sister as corvettes rather than frigates).

Edited April 7 by chris watton

[knightyo]

Am I reading this correctly that in NOT creating the kit based upon the ship that was used in the movie, that the kit you are creating matches more closely the ship depicted in the books?  If that's the case, I think most of the interested modelers would prefer your version anyway.

 

Alan

[chris watton]

16 minutes ago, knightyo said:

Am I reading this correctly that in NOT creating the kit based upon the ship that was used in the movie, that the kit you are creating matches more closely the ship depicted in the books?  If that's the case, I think most of the interested modelers would prefer your version anyway.

 

Alan

Yes, the books, not the movie. If you wanted a Surprise based off the movie, then Sphinx would be a better starting point, as they were designed for the same amount of guns and thus very similar dimensions.

 

Here is the real difference in size between the film version and the real version, the latter being the one above:

 

(The main wale lines for Surprise are erroneous, and will not be on the actual model, being French)

 

Edited April 7 by chris watton

[uss frolick]

So your kit could be used to make La Tourterelle (the turtledove)?

[chris watton]

4 minutes ago, uss frolick said:

So your kit could be used to make La Tourterelle (the turtledove)?

I guess so, with a little tweaking (deck arrangements slightly different)

[chris watton]

Second Surprise prototype starting to take shape - again, MDF for beams, as this will be discarded once I have all the info I need from this hull...

[François de Saint Nazaire]

6 hours ago, chris watton said:

I guess so, with a little tweaking (deck arrangements slightly different)

Very good news for the "froggies"! I'm very interrested

 

La Tourterelle : A 24-gun french frigate built in Honfleur and commissioned in May 1794. Displacing 350 tons with a length of 38.20 meters, she was captured by the British frigate HMS Lively off Cape Lizard on 13 March 1795. Renamed HMS Tourterelle, the corvette was sunk in 1816 to serve as a breakwater in Bermuda.

 

Edited April 8 by François de Saint Nazaire

[uss frolick]

And unlike L'Unite, La Tourterelle (620 tons) fought like hell before she struck to a larger opponent. She even used a special oven to heat "hot-shot" in her defense, but it didn't help her. Lively was a rare, 18-pounder 32-gun frigate. Tourterelle's "as taken" profile with carvings is just too beautiful!

[Mike_H]

Well this is excellent news! That and bigger, better and faster laser cutters

On 3/28/2025 at 3:50 AM, chris watton said:

Awful quality pics, but these show the very first assembly of Surprise - No glue, all dry fitted.

 

I interrupted a holiday in the hope of hearing of progress - and boy what progress! Can't wait to order one.

 

[chris watton]

And now for something completely different.
When I need other people, more skilled than me in other disciplines, to do work for me for future developments, I like to get these aspects sorted way, way before I start the project myself.
Here is such an example, a set of cannons and a 17th Century brick stove/fire hearth, that were sent to me last night and printed overnight, for the very first check of parts – all went together pretty well, I think.

[François de Saint Nazaire]

Hello Chris

 

Could you tell more about this project ? 😉

 

Is it a Stove from the 17th century or 18th century ?

 

The arming and fitting of English ships of war, 1600-1815
by Lavery, Brian :
 

Edited April 12 by François de Saint Nazaire

[chris watton]

2 minutes ago, François de Saint Nazaire said:

Hello Chris

 

Could you tell more about this project ? 😉

 

Is it a Stove from the 17th century or 18th century ?

 

The arming and fitting of English ships of war, 1600-1815
by Laveny, Brian :
 

I did mention that it is from the 17th Century in my post, and is for a future development of a 17th century warship.

[Kenchington]

1 hour ago, chris watton said:

17th Century brick stove/fire hearth

Both very neat and very interesting! Do you have a source for that stove design or was it someone's imagination? The brick galley fireplaces I have seen reported in the archaeological literature (and the only one I have personally handled) were all much simpler.

 

Trevor

[chris watton]

7 minutes ago, Kenchington said:

Both very neat and very interesting! Do you have a source for that stove design or was it someone's imagination? The brick galley fireplaces I have seen reported in the archaeological literature (and the only one I have personally handled) were all much simpler.

 

Trevor

Of course I have a source for the stove!

[GrandpaPhil]

Very cool!

[westwood]

Hi Chris, both the brick stove and the cannons look great.
So does this confirm the development of the Tiger 1681 from Richard Endsor's drawings?
The scale is 1/64 ? Will the stove and cannons be sold separately and also in 1/48th scale?

[chris watton]

25 minutes ago, westwood said:

So does this confirm the development of the Tiger 1681 from Richard Endsor's drawings?

Maybe!  Richard Endsor did very kindly produce a set of 64th plans for me.

 

26 minutes ago, westwood said:

The scale is 1/64 ? Will the stove and cannons be sold separately and also in 1/48th scale?

I am not sure yet, the issue I now have is time and space to store stuff that isn't related to my kits in 64th

[chris watton]

And back to Surprise. These pics show the checking of the inner bulwark template (no gun port cut outs yet), and how it aligns with the upper deck beams. Once I know the fit is as good as it's going to be, I shall do the next version with gun ports and then check again.

 

(Ply gun deck is not part of the final kit)

 

For this design, I beefed up the bow structure a lot more than usual, as I know this can be a weak point when planking..

[glbarlow]

Can’t wait. Beefing up the bow is a great idea, it will save me fittings balsa there. 

[Kusawa2000]

2 hours ago, chris watton said:

And back to Surprise. These pics show the checking of the inner bulwark template (no gun port cut outs yet), and how it aligns with the upper deck beams. Once I know the fit is as good as it's going to be, I shall do the next version with gun ports and then check again.

 

(Ply gun deck is not part of the final kit)

 

For this design, I beefed up the bow structure a lot more than usual, as I know this can be a weak point when planking..

Chris: Is it going to be a single plank on bulkhead or double? I cant remember what you had done with your past kits...

 

 

[chris watton]

28 minutes ago, Kusawa2000 said:

Chris: Is it going to be a single plank on bulkhead or double? I cant remember what you had done with your past kits...

 

 

As a rule, double planked. Inner bulwarks will be fully pre cut and etched parts, though. Decks will be laser etched and cut limewood with no ply sub decks needed.

 

I am thinking of just doing a single pear planking for the upper outer hull, and double planked at and below the thicker plank line (roughly where a main wale would start on an English ship) - But not sure yet...

[Kusawa2000]

22 hours ago, chris watton said:

As a rule, double planked. Inner bulwarks will be fully pre cut and etched parts, though. Decks will be laser etched and cut limewood with no ply sub decks needed.

 

I am thinking of just doing a single pear planking for the upper outer hull, and double planked at and below the thicker plank line (roughly where a main wale would start on an English ship) - But not sure yet...

Did I remember correct that the deck maybe have a option of laser etched for the deck planks or you can go for individually planked?

Also... the Inner bulwarks pre cut and etched.. that would take care of a few headaches! 

 

Pear on exterior planks.. wow.. that will give a nice finish.👍

[chris watton]

57 minutes ago, Kusawa2000 said:

Did I remember correct that the deck maybe have a option of laser etched for the deck planks or you can go for individually planked?

Also... the Inner bulwarks pre cut and etched.. that would take care of a few headaches! 

 

Pear on exterior planks.. wow.. that will give a nice finish.👍

The decks will be 0.8 or 1mm limewood laser cut and etched as standard in the kit, as this is what it will be designed for. however, as I have said before, this does not stop anyone wanting to plank the decks themselves using planking of their choice. They can use either the laser etched decks or printed full size deck patterns on the plans as templates if they so wish.

 

I used to use maple veneer, which was really nice - problem was I could not have enough sheets in a nice neutral colour tone, so reject rate was way too high.

 

All of my kits have pear as the finishing planking for the hull, be it in pre cut or planking form.