Snug Harbor Johnny

Someone I know believes there were 2 guns on the quarterdeck (probably smaller than those on the weather deck), giving the Providence 12 guns in all. I wouldn't know about that. He also mentioned there would have been a ship's boat carried. He references the Rhode Island repro. Providence in its present configuration for comparison, and said something I didn't quite understand about a slight projection of the quarterdeck. He does admire the detail and skill put into the model as a fine representation.

So much to consider ... and learn about. I've seen clipper photos 'on deck' where the number of belayed lines are vast ... appearing to be a 'jungle' yet each line is routed to where it goes without crossing or rubbing on something (ideally). 'Learning the ropes' will take time, and what to include on any model - well, that may depend on the limit of skill, dexterity ... and sanity. Inevitably, compromises will occur.

I've pondered sails on models in general, perhaps focusing on clippers. The sails on some models are somewhat limp, although I've seen a couple where thin wire concealed where the perimeter folds over can be manipulated to give the sails a little shape as if the wind isn't too strong. A clipper laid up for some time might have the sails taken off (the 'no sails' option - meaning no running rigging except perhaps clew lines and sheets). Many have taken that approach. One forum member proposes to have only a few sails set (as seen in many period prints and engravings), with the others furled (a compromise approach). A sail to be shown furled might be only a third (vertically) of a full-size sail so with won't look "too bunched up" when furled. I suppose Clippers in port to unload cargo and take on other cargo would have sails furled, and they could have the 'look' seen also in many contemporary illustrations, where the sail material is somewhat "festooned" ... like bunting. The bunt lines are pulled enough to gather the sail in arcs - hanging a lower towards the middle. The reason being the relatively short time the ship would be in port. I suppose the upper 'split' topsail and topgallant yards might have no sail mounted at all, and could be in the lowered position where the lifts are taut - ergo no bunt lines needed for them. A couple of jibs could be down, with the others omitted. No stay sails either, so there would be a moderate amount of running rigging to mess with - and there would be a good view of all the deck detail. Adding scale figures would be nice. Just wondering how this all sounds ....

One could make a steel die set (does not have to be hardened since the workpiece is soft copper), where the base has a hole drilled in deep enough so the copper nail slides in not all the way - the flat head would be 'floating' slightly above the surface of the steel plate. A 'punch' of steel (could be cut off from round stock, say 3 or 4" long) would have a round divot in the end made by using a ball burr and a Dremel. This 'dink' would conform to the size you would want the head of the rivet to appear from the outside of the model. The the punch is tapped over the copper nail head to form it into a small dome. The bottom of the punch would 'stop' itself against the steel plate, so the rivet head can't be over-formed. The distance the unformed nail head is above the lower plate - and the size of the divot in the punch will determine the exact look of the copper "rivets" ... a little trial and error to get it just so. Then a similar divot would be made in the face of the crimping pliers previously shown to maintain the shape of the external head, while crimping the projecting end on the inside as you have already shown. Since the planks are laid one-by-one up from the keel, most of the rivets can be done with the pliers - except a few in very tight spaces fore and aft. For those, a little application of PVA or even epoxy could be made over the uncrimped end of a rivet in a tight space. Once dry, a dab of paint the color you want it to be should look fine. In fact, since the crimping process can produce some variation of how things look on the inside, I might be tempted to apply a dollop of adhesive everywhere and just paint. Either way should work. Johnny

Budgie, 'Forgot to mention that we have three cockatoos ... and they are like budgies ON STEROIDS. Bigger beaks, bigger bites (on occasion if they get emotional over something), LOUDER screams and cries, more dander and mess ... but we just love them (they are generally manageable, and often affectionate) and they have long lives. One we've had 42 years, another 29, and our 'rescue bird' (this year his owner passed away) is merely 21. This year we used all our 'stimulus money' to get a hot tub installed next to our deck on a pre-existing concrete pad. Late afternoon or evening dips are great muscle relaxers, and not having any formal swimwear - I go in in my boxer briefs. However, the Admiral would like to see me in a 'budgie smuggler' - as they say in Australia. G'day mate! Johnny

I nearly have a plan to complete (to appear similar to the original ship now on display having just the first mast sections in place - as if still under construction) the 'old' (original late 1960s) Billings 1:100 Wasa - warts and all. The lines are wrong (with a lot of other things), and some major ripping/rebuilding has to be done to get a semblance of how it ought to be. Still, the hull size is 'not too big' and there ARE a lot of things I like about it. So it will be half compromise and half improvise (like many marriages) ... then I'll be able to go on to something else having learned a lot on the process. The idea is to please yourself and enjoy the projects you work on. Like old advice says, 'Do not compare yourself to others, for there will always be those greater or lesser than yourself.' Fair sailing ... Johnny

'Looks to me like you could just apply filler where needed (and a couple applications in the 'deepest' voids would be needed if the material shrinks). Then just 'sand away' until the desired shape is had.

'Found the finest chain I've ever seen by chance at a local craft store (already made into a multi-strand long necklace, but long enough that cut strands are useable for sheet chain in 1:96 scale), then bought what they had. They are silver finish, but can be airbrushed dark with care. I've also scrounged blocks and fittings from incomplete or partially built kits occasionally found at flea markets, train shows and the like ... if the price is right these kits can be a good source of planking wood, etc. The idea is to always be on the lookout, never knowing when or where you might come across something usable. Now there's an idea ... if an old beat-up (perhaps broken) model has OK chainplate, stropped blocks, etc. and can be had at a low enough price - instead of trying to do a 'restoration', it could be 'mined' for usable parts.

Lead (or more likely tin/lead) fittings will be soft and bendable. If primed on all surfaces (not sure which primer works best for tin/lead - but what is sold for cast military figures and 'flats' is obviously suitable), then painted with enamel (not acrylic) - they can last a long time without oxidation, since oxygen won't go through the coatings. I found a painted CW tin/lead soldier I cast as a boy over 50 years ago, and it is in perfect condition. Antique figures can be so found, as long as the coatings don't get scratched or chipped. Any lead in these figures has been banned for some time, so tin based 'pewters' have been used. 95/5 tin/antimony is "out" these days because of the antimony. Something like 2% copper is alloyed with tin ( to make Britannia metal), since pure tin degrades under freezing temperatures. (Napoleon's soldiers buttons fell apart on the road back from Moscow.) One can see 'Britannia metal' (tin-copper) plate wear over 200 years old on display in museums in excellent condition, whereas the cheaper stuff with lead go dark grey and can oxidize in high humidity. Conclusion ... Britannia metal is fine without painting for centuries - now I'm not talking about buried in soil, which will ruin anything other than gold (or platinum). Some kits have zinc metal castings, since anything with lead these days is a no-no. Zinc can likely take the same primer, although zinc chromate is the best. Some early zinc cast toy locomotives had zinc with contaminants and suffered from an internal degradation that caused them to crumble from the inside in spite of coatings. I'm talking about stuff from the 1920s and 30s. Since then, there are no reports of 'bad' zinc. Johnny

When hull fairing is achieved (or that of other surfaces), have you considered using a scraper? Cabinetry scrapers are too large for most model making, but fashioning mini scrapers using short pieces of (de-toothed) hack saw blade can be used to have a finish largely free of 'fuzzines' (unless the wood is too soft on its own).

Vladimir, Have you thought of selling through eBay (auction)? The owner of HisModels (Czechoslovakia) sells some of his stock that way (although with a 'buy now' fixed price), and the rest of his shop is direct. For an eBay auction, your starting price would be the lowest you'd find acceptable - then it goes up from there when there are bidders. The money is handled by eBay. You have put in much work on the 1:72 model, and I think you should get what the international market will bring. Of course shipping is something major to consider, given the size of the hull. (Are the mast stub removable?) It would have to be completely bubble-wrapped and in one sturdy (reinforced) box, then that box is bubble wrapped and put into a larger shipping carton. Cost to ship overseas will be costly, so figure that in your minimum price. I was a clerk in a telescope store (a side line to supplement meager earnings as a Pharmacy technician) for 10 years, and we shipped fragile astronomy gear all over. The makers in China or Mexico put them in pre-formed styrofoam shells inside cartons, but loose items from out store (eyepieces, finders, binoculars) were packed by us using the two carton method. For a large, oblong box that the Glory would need, surrounding the inner box with plywood might be needed to prevent torquing, bending or crushing - the outer box can take some beating as there would be plenty of bubble wrap between the cartons. You have done an outstanding job, and an excellent collaborator with Rob and his 1:96 version. I wish you all the best! Johnny

Q: Why do I keep beating my head against the wall? A: It feels so good when I stop. 🙂 Johnny

Rob, were there scuppers on extreme clippers? Also, did the 'doors' that resemble 'gun ports' along the bulwark simply open outward to discharge water from heavy seas that might spill over on the deck?

I'm a believer in needle files - and for greater flexibility set some that come 'curved', known as riffler files. The curved files enable you to work on parts of flat surfaces and hard-to-get places with just the end of the file (the curved part). I've done low-relief longrifle decorations with both minitaure carving tools AND a set of curved-end (and bent-end) files. Snug

My Dad was a retired dentist who modeled 1930s biplanes or WWI aircraft, and used an old-school dental rig like the one pictured. When he passed, my brother got dibs on the drill to work on his fossils ... so I ended up getting the HF flex shaft tool with foot control. It does leave some to be desired - but was cheap and locally available, and has proven adequate so far. But the right-angle head on the dentist's drill was clearly more useful overall.

I'm a big shellac fan, and Zinsser's is a convenience with a couple CAVEATS. Look at the date on the can! Pre-mixed shellac is good for 1 - 2 years, so if the date is OVER 2 years - look for another can. The issue is having it dry completely. If you dissolve your own shellac flakes, do not use "Everclear" or 'clear grain alcohol' sold in liquor stores because it is only 190 'proof' - meaning 5% water. I had trouble trying to use such a product and it 'clouded' the shellac. You need either 'Baker analyzed' pure chemists' ethanol (very expensive and not widely available), but you can use 'denatured' alcohol (methanol) sold in pure form in hardware stores. The flakes dissolve nearly as well as with ethanol, but because of the fumes - good ventilation is necessary is using a LOT of product (like for furniture 'French' polishing, or covering any large area). BTW, methanol is used in Zinsser's. Applying a little here and there (like for securing rigging) is generally not a problem. But inhaling too much methanol can be toxic. If you dissolve your own amber flakes, after a good bit of swirling until most of the flakes are dissolved, let the mixture sit undisturbed in a stoppered Erlenmeyer flask for at least a week. I got some flasks from Edmunds's Scientific Company some years ago - but 'science stores' may have some. The second choice is something tall - like a graduated cylinder, or even a tall glass flower vase. The top portion will be lighter in color and this can be taken off with a pipette, ling dropper (or even a glass turkey baster). This lighter color shellac is the best to use either on the wood or to fix knots, etc. If using Zinsser's, don't shake the can, handle it gently and let it sit for a couple of weeks after purchase to 'settle out'. Then draw off the top 'clearer' portion to use. Fair sailing ... Johnny

Rob, I'm with you on the light blue color choice for waterways and trim. From a recent book: The American Clipper Ship 1845 - 1920: A comprehensive History with a Listing go Builders and their Ships (p.54) "Aboard ship, most clipper deck houses were painted white, as were cabin interiors and bulwarks, while waterways were painted a variety of colors, including pearl, lead, light blue or buff color." I'm not a paint expert, but in the 19th century oil-based (linseed) were the best exterior paints, while interior work was often done with 'distemper' paint (water based) containing varying amounts of casein or hide glue. To get color, super-fine ground pigment had to be added. Less expensive pigments like carbon, red ochre and yellow ochre could be had - but blue (there were several types) cost a lot more, and it took a lot of added pigment to get a 'darker' paint of any color. Hence there prevalence of 'lighter' to mid-range blue paints used for architecture. I'm not talking artists colors for fine art, which had intense colors, but in much smaller quantities. These charts post date many mid-19th c. clipper builds, but you get the picture. Binghamton #17 or Coverall 'deep blue' might be the darkest shades when new, and would fade some with strong UV exposure. Bing. #32, #28, Coverall ocean blue or sky blue are more likely candidates based on the shades cited in the aforementioned book. I wondered what "lead" colored paint looked like, and you can see it on the Coverall chart as well as pearl (gray). Fair sailing ... Johnny

Chuck makes excellent blocks sold through Syren Ships - check for current pricing. The scale rope is now done by another fellow trained by Chuck ... there's got to be a link somewhere, and that is properly laid rope done with a small scale rope-walk. Syren sells a product called the 'rope rocket' that you hook a drill to and can make your own scale rope - you should check it out. There is also a rope server for someone who wants to go that route.

'Great progress, mate. The link to the Gazela manual is very appropriate for the Endurance, and something many Forum member can benefit from - myself included. Fair sailing ! Johnny

I found a laser-produced wood deck for Thermopylae (Cutty Sark also available) on Ebay, and the seller is HiSModel in Czechoslovakia. The standard shipping would have taken 4 - 6 weeks, so I paid extra for Fed Ex. I was in Ebay as a 'guest' (not having an account then - I do now) and paid by credit card. Then I saw the same seller's photo-etch and decal + flag set, and ordered that too (but with standard shipping). The seller (Radimir Beseda) contacted me through Ebay to clarify if I wanted the beech wood versus the oak deck, and if I wanted any thing else to go into the package. I specified then that the beech was lighter in color with a finer grain, so I wanted that - plus the photo etch thrown into the same box so they would both get to me sooner. To my surprise, I got the items in a mere 7 days! (the $23 up-charge was worth it). Fed Ex had slightly bent the box at some point, but the deck was not damaged and a slight creasing in part of the photo etch was smoothed with round handled metal tools - no worries. Radimir included a sample deadeye with a photo-etch surround and a sample CNC milled walnut block. They seem pretty good, and he has them available on his site - plus nice-looking 1:96 belaying pins long enough to properly function - It has been recommended to snap off the plastic pins from the Reveal Cutty/Thermoplylae pin rails and replace with scale brass pins. Since the deck of the prototypes was bare wood, I've never been able to paint a pre-formed (plastic) deck to look 'real enough'. The use of these thin (veneer) deck parts has to be considered right from the start of constructing either kit, and installing metal deck eyes right through the deck (after wood sheathing) was also recommended. Items from HiSModel appear less expensive if bought from the seller directly with PayPal. He seems to specialize in accessories to greatly improve popular plastic ships (e.g. U.S.S. Constitution 1:96). My late 50s Thermopylae (a lucky find) has excellent molded parts (and instructions - although the paper is coming apart), and I'm going to plan carefully how to go about the prospective build - using deadeyes and hand-knotted ratlines for example. Scale points to 3.5mm and 2.5mm deadeyes - pretty small to work with, so I might consider going just a little 'out of scale' with 5mm for the large deadeyes and 3mm for the small ... plenty of time to think about that. Some of the yards that were not painted as seen on several fine all-wood models, can be replaced by wood spars - the the fine build on this forum by Bruma. I'm stuck on whether to build as a Barkentine (early 1890s) or as a clipper. The idea of having a few sails is a great compromise. Fair sailing! Johnny

Louie, I've just seen the Papegjan (1627) build, and all my questions are answered ... she is a 'smaller Wasa', and the masting/rigging can be used - with the addition of diminutive top gallant yards. What a build, with setp-by-step pictures of how to rig ! Johnny

Your many rigging pictures are an answer to a prayer ... the rigging of this 'smaller Wasa' of 1627 can be a template for eventual finishing of my languishing 1:100 Billing Wasa (c.1970 kit). The mast p[roportions are great, and the Wasa only needs diminutive top gallants above the topsail yards. Sure, the Anderson book (and others) have good information, but your build shows step-by-step how its done - with every rope having a purpose. Kudos, and a toast to you ! Johnny

My Dad used to fly RC model planes in the 'old days', and many of the ads for sale of model airplane kits had pictures of pretty women holding a finished model ... sort of like how car commercials often have a gal showing the car. Love it. Johnny

You're doing great! My Dad also built a clipper (looked to be around 1:120 scale) and it was in a glass display case. When my Dad passed, one of my brothers had 'dibs' on the model, which was rigged with whatever sewing thread happened to be handy and black seed beads were used as pulleys. There were a number of thread lines that had simply deteriorated and broken, and the model looked a little sad - but still clean since it was always cased. He planked the deck in flat match sticks - which was an exercise in patience, and the cabin detail looked pretty good. Perhaps I'll offer to re-rig the ship for my brother sometime - but he lives far away and has become an aging bachelor-hoarder. I have bought some items from Cornwall, and they have been generally good. I know what you mean about the belaying pin geometry - and I may resort to turning my own on the miniature (Unimat) lathe my Dad gave me some time ago. I've used the lathe for a wide variety of projects, and although it is underpowered it turns brass and aluminum pretty good with light cuts. I'll have to make a form tool foe the pin profile I want, then cut them off one-by-one after forming. Johnny

Louie, I've checked out your link to images of carracks (and also have poured through artwork of ships in the 1520 - 1620 range) - and a very common (by a large majority) depict a relatively tall first part of the mainmast having a relatively large main sail ... then a much shorter second section with a MUCH smaller topsail, and either a short third pole to fly a pennant from (sometimes only on the main mast) or a diminutive top gallant on the pennant pole (so small compared to the main sail that it is quite puny). All these artists were seeing much the same thing, and trying to depict it in 2-D. Now there are varying degrees of 'artistic license' as well as scale issues, but the 'preponderance of the evidence' is that ships in that era DID look much like that. The small hight of the masting above the large main sail may well be related to the evolution of rigging methods to enable the eventual increase of mast height and sail size by 1650. In deciding how I'm to mast my version of the (dated) 1:100 Billing Wasa model (as sold circa 1970 - so I have to make substantial modifications to based on current knowledge). Their elevation drawing has masting that appears entirely too tall relative to the hull. I took a picture to put on my build log - and due to the camera angle, the image 'foreshortens' the masting quite a bit ... but seeing that makes it appear much like the aforementioned contemporary artwork. Now the picture I took is perhaps a little too foreshortened, but the 'lightbulb' went on that I could 'scale back' on the masting above the mainsail, as the 1628 Wasa can be considered a 'transitional' ship ... the order came after the keel was laid and construction started to lengthen the ship by about 30 feet (and add a lot more guns) - so the builders had to do what they could to comply - and we know the outcome. As has been said, the masting and spars are 'the first things to go' on a wreck - and that may be one reason (apart from housing concerns) that the restored original in Sweden only has the first mast sections. One could also just model that to be 'safe', but without a time machine (or time portal that one could look through without having to go there) who can say just how the upper masting was configured? Johnny