Workshop Advice

[Pierretessier]

Looking great. I see a nice workbench just under that window.

[WackoWolf]

I was thinking of the same place for the bench. One needs to look outside to see what the kids are doing to each other LOL

[jud]

I can see it also Pierre, looks like a special bench custom made for those long, narrow projects.

jud

[Gaetan Bordeleau]

Over the years I tried many installation configuration for the tools.

There are 2 aspects that I still take into consideration:

 

Lighting: there is never enough.

Flexibility to have the tools at hand: to do this  every table have wheels to be move easily.

[Seventynet]

By age 60, eyes need three times more light to see as they did at age 20. So, depending on your age, lighting is important. I am constantly looking for ways to improve the lighting for what I'm working on. And by the way that is a fantastic workshop you have there. I look forward to many great builds coming out of it!

Edited December 1, 2016 by Seventynet

[Bob Blarney]

Hello, it seems that you're getting some good advice - everybody loves the idea of building a shop from the ground up.  My Michigan basement shop grew haphazardly over 25 years as circumstances allowed, and there are things that I would have done sooner rather than later.  Since my interests have been in larger items, and now guitars, I have full-size tools in my armamentarium -- usually quality >no-plastic< consumer tools from the 1950s.

 

Electrical Power;  a separate sub-panel for the tools is an excellent idea because it allows total shutoff when the shop is not in use.  I ran 12-3-(with ground) wire through the shop so that I could have 20A at 120v or 240v at any location.  The lights are on a separate circuit from the main house panel, and if you use LED lighting the wiring requirements are easily met.  Electrical outlets for tools are essential, with a duplex receptacle at every tool location, and several spread out around the bench areas.  A remote control for the dust collection system is very handy.

 

Adequate lighting is critical - I'm replacing my fluorescents steadily  with 4200 lumen/50W LED fixtures.  At the benches for detaile work, I've measured it at 1500-2000 lux on the bench surface.

 

Dust collection is all important.  It is not the dust that you can see that is dangerous - it's the dust in the <3 micron range that can not be expelled from your lungs.  I don't think you need the 1hp 650cfm Jet unit- as matter of fact it is underpowered for 4" ductwork.  I think you should go with a 2.5" duct system - a shop-vac with a HEPA filter with an Oneida Dust Deputy cyclone preceding the vac.  I made my own mini system that you can see here:  

 

http://www.mimf.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=3467

 

If you have the time, you might want to go to Bill Pentz's site to learn more than you want to know about dust collection systems:  http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/

[Worldway]

Over the years I tried many installation configuration for the tools.

There are 2 aspects that I still take into consideration:

 

Lighting: there is never enough.

Flexibility to have the tools at hand: to do this  every table have wheels to be move easily.

 

 

Looks like an operating room.

[thibaultron]

If you are going to used tools with capacitor start (many "full" sized tools), I have a tip. In my shop all the wiring to the outlets go through GFI outlets as the first ones in the string, for safety. If you have cap start motors, they can trip regular GFI units. Look for "Motor Rated" GFI units. They only cost a little more, and are designed for such motors. My Atlas lathe with a 1/2HP cap start motor, regularly tripped the regular GFIs.

 

Dust collection units may also have cap start motors.

[Bob Blarney]

If you are going to used tools with capacitor start (many "full" sized tools), I have a tip. In my shop all the wiring to the outlets go through GFI outlets as the first ones in the string, for safety. If you have cap start motors, they can trip regular GFI units. Look for "Motor Rated" GFI units. They only cost a little more, and are designed for such motors. My Atlas lathe with a 1/2HP cap start motor, regularly tripped the regular GFIs.

 

Dust collection units may also have cap start motors.

 

Good advice, especially for my shop in the basement.  At present I don't have GFI protection, but it is certainly a good idea  But instead of a wallbox receptacle, I think I'll try to locate a GFI circuit breaker.

Edited December 8, 2016 by Bob Blarney

[thibaultron]

As long as the first outlet in the string is a GFI, the rest in the string will also be protected. The outlet GFIs are, if I remember correctly, much cheaper than the breaker ones.

[ca.shipwright]

Here is my dust collection system for my shop tools. It consists of 1" PVC schedule 40 pipe, ball valves at each machine that can be opened or closed. and a 8 gallon Shop Vac. All the joints are press fitted, not glued which allows for rearrangement when needed.

 

The ball valves on all the machines except for the one I am operating are closed. This keeps the suction in the line strong. It is no bother since  I only use one machine at a time. The Shop Vac resides outside the door of the shop to keep the noise down.

 

This is an efficient flexible inexpensive system.

 

Hope you find this useful

 

Regards

[WackoWolf]

What kind of scroll saw is that?

[Bob Blarney]

The CFM rating (cubic feet of air per minute) of dust collector manufacturers gives only a rough idea of a unit's performance - think of it sort of like 'developed horsepower' of electric motors.

When designing a dust collection system, the goal is to develop a flow rate at a velocity that will keep dust and chips in motion.  Aside from leaks in pipes & blast gates, with every turn and foot of pipe there are airflow losses, According to Bill Pentz, a cyclone connected to a shop-vac with  2.5" tubing a will outperform a JET 1hp/650 cfm with a cyclone and 4" duct, and I can tell you from experience that's basically true. 

 

For the miniature machines that I've seen here, anything more than a shop-vac is probably unnecessary. That said, a well-designed duct system will prevent premature failure of a shop-vac.  Shop-vacs are usually cooled by the air flowing through them, and many shop-vacs have a non-replaceable internal fuse that will burn out if the airflow through the vac is restricted, either to due undersized piping or clogged filters (that's why aside from convenience, a cyclone is a good idea).  Thus, I think that while short lengths of 1" pipe are probably ok, I would go with 2-2.5" pipe, and keep the runs as short as is possible.  To muffle the noise, one could put the vac inside an acoustically insulated box.

 

I also suggest that a common box fan can be very useful.  Make a box from cardboard or plywood that fits the drawing side of the fan, and place 2-3 furnace filters in it, starting with a coarse one for big particles and then a finer filter.  This could be left to run pretty much continually while you're in the shop.  Furthermore, in my shop the relative humidity drops very low during the winter months, and so I place a furnace filter on the intake side of the portable humidifier to catch dust before it gets inside.

Edited December 9, 2016 by Bob Blarney

[ca.shipwright]

It's an old Delta that I bought about 15 years ago.

[Jaager]

To add some perspective -  the formula for flow thru a tube:

( from Physiology / blood flow )

Flow = 4/3 x pi x radius cubed

 

What that means is that small changes is radius has a profound effect on flow.

Small changes can have large effects when it is multiplied by itself 3 times.

 

A 2.5" pipe has 15 times the flow of a 1" pipe.

[mtaylor]

Bob,

 

I got one at Lowe's for my laser.  Since there's water involved, I felt a bit more "added protection" wouldn't hurt.

[Bob Blarney]

I'm not criticizing anybody.  If what you have done works, then great.  But I think a better understanding that an effective dust collection system is useful - a system wherein the components are matched for efficiency and maximum useful life.

 

ca.shipwright - I think I know the style of Delta vac that you have - the motor is external and away from the impeller, right?

 

jaager - as a former med school professor of cardiovascular physiology, I think you're referring to Poiseuille's Law, that describes  laminar flow  (of air, here, and ignoring the compressibility of air) as a function of pressure  inside a tube.  Flow is dependent on several factors:  the length of the tube and pressure differential between the ends of the tube, the viscosity of the fluid (air, here), the fourth power of the radius, (and another physical constant or two, as I recall).  Thus for a given material and length of tube at a constant pressure differential, the flow can be doubled by increasing the radius by ~20%. and that doubling the radius will increase the flow sixteenfold.  

Incidentally, neurohumoral control of blood vessels is vital to matching the limited pumping capacity of the heart to the needs of body tissues.  Although cardiac output can be increased or decreased to some extent, the distribution of blood flow is determined by changing the caliber of arterial resistance vessels in particular organs, e.g. coronary blood flow, skeletal muscles blood flow during rest or exercise, and renal blood flow.

 

 

mtaylor -  i'm not familiar with your laser equipment, but the ones that I've seen don't produce embers that would ignite dust.  But with the cooling water present, a wet/dry shopvac is a reasonable precaution.  Come to think of it, I wonder if a dust cyclone such as the plastic Oneida Dust Deputy would also trap water.  That would be an interesting experiment and if someone could try it, I would be very interested to hear the results.  At the least, the cyclone would be cleaned.

Edited December 12, 2016 by Bob Blarney

[Jaager]

Bob,

Pharmacology here.

Thanks for clarifying.  My basic education mostly involved linear Arithmetic and

Mother Nature's Math is Calculus.  My intuition is based on the wrong Math so I

am constantly surprised by how things really work.  What impressed me the most

about the equation was that it does not take much change in diameter to produce

a profound effect on air flow in the lungs or blood flow to the heart, etc. - that the 

smooth muscles that regulate do not need to constrict or contract all that much to

do their job.   It does not help intuition that Pharmacology tends to use a 16 oz hammer

to do a job that a tack hammer would do better.

 

With the sealed type system being discussed here, Although using 4 inch piping for

the long runs may be more than is needed and more expensive is space and money,

it should not negatively effect the system.  The question: does the reduced resistance

have a significant effect on the efficiency on the system and the stress on the vac motor?

[ChrisLBren]

Thanks for the lively discussion here - a bit of an update - I bought 2 tables from Home Depot for 200 a piece - I like them because they are on wheels/mobile and are height adjustable - perfect for my Jim Brynes tools - since I typically stand while using them.

 

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-62-in-x-24-in-D-Work-Table-Black-HOLT62XDB11/206698778

 

Im buying this desk as my main workstation

 

https://www.uline.com/Product/Detail/H-1222-SMAP/Packing-Tables/Packing-Table-96-x-36-Maple-Top-with-Square-Edge

 

My dust collection system - again thinking mobile is best - waiting for the holiday sales to purchase these

 

https://www.amazon.com/Fein-9-20-28-TURBO-II-Turbo/dp/B00K74N8A8

 

And hung from the ceiling

 

http://www.rockler.com/jet-1000cfm-air-filtration-system

[reklein]

A 16 oz. hammer would be much better to silence an annoying spectator than a tack hammer, unless of course the offending party is a fly or spider. Then you need the asalt gun. I'm sure youv'e seen the ads.

[Landlubber Mike]

Great decisions Chris.  If I had the space you had, I would do something similar.  The workstation desk in particular is going to be nice with its depth.

 

I think you'll like the Fein and JET system.  The Fein is a bit of a pain when it comes to attaching to the Byrnes dust ports, but I think there is a thread here where I came up with a solution (essentially involved pairing two adaptors, which I include on each of my tools so that I just have to move the vac hose from tool to tool).  A bit of an added expense, but pretty easy.

 

Think about getting the dust deputy cyclone system.  It works very well.  Another pain to attach to the Fein, but use some gaffer tape and you'll be fine.

[ca.shipwright]

Bob,

I'm sorry. I was referring to my scroll saw. The shop vac is a Lowes 8 gallon, I use the bag as it keeps the blowback down compared to the filter sleeve that you also use.

[ca.shipwright]

Chris,

You can build that 36x96 table with a 4x8 sheet of birch plywood and six 96" 2x4s. Put a coat of Minwax Polyurethane on it and your ready to go. Cost about $75 total.

Lowes or the Depot will rip the ply to 36". The extra 12 " becomes the shelf underneath. Put the savings into more Jim Byrnes tools.

If you're interested  I can give you a detailed how to do this.

 

Regards

[mtaylor]

 

 

mtaylor -  i'm not familiar with your laser equipment, but the ones that I've seen don't produce embers that would ignite dust.  But with the cooling water present, a wet/dry shopvac is a reasonable precaution.  Come to think of it, I wonder if a dust cyclone such as the plastic Oneida Dust Deputy would also trap water.  That would be an interesting experiment and if someone could try it, I would be very interested to hear the results.  At the least, the cyclone would be cleaned.

 

Bob,

The shopvac is for dust in the shop and if needed, water spills.  There's not an ember problem per se, but one does need to have a spray bottle of water and a good fire extinquisher handy as sometimes the wood being cut will catch fire.  Rule of thumb.. never leave a laser cutter running and unattended.

 

The GFI add-on is due to the water cooling.  If there's a leak... all sorts of hell can break loose.  We also put external grounding wires on these things.  

 

My latest fling with Mr. Murphey points out about being safe.... the water pump died in the middle of high power cut, this caused the tube to overheat and crack.. which between the tube coming apart and some water exiting the tube, took out the power supply and that arcing and sparking of 25kV (tube voltage) took out the controller board.    The damage was to the equipment and not to me even though I was leaning on the laser at the time (both hands, watching the cut).  Air filtration took care of the smoke that came out of the parts.   After repairs are made, I'm adding a water flow/pressure sensor to the system...  another hard lesson learned.

[Bob Blarney]

mtaylor-

"My latest fling with Mr. Murphey points out about being safe.... the water pump died in the middle of high power cut, this caused the tube to overheat and crack.. "

 

Ooh, that must have been an event!  As an old Navy Chief said, "Every safety rule is written in blood."            

 

I think a pressure switch might serve your needs for an emergency power cutoff - you could scavenge one from a clothes washer - they are basically pneumatic switches that need a pressure head (depth of water) on the order of 30cm of water.  If the water level isn't high enough, then the power is cut off. 

 

jaager - most of my experimental work was with sharp knives, needles & thread, instead of hammers - I don't know nuffin' 'bout no farmecology.

 

re: the use of 4" pipe, then you will need a much more powerful dust collector than a shopvac.    On Bill Pentz' site, you will find a spreadsheet and other information that aids in estimating/calculating the needs. A practical way to tell if your system is underpowered is to open a pipe run and see if debris has collected in the pipe.         By the way, if you use four inch Schedule 30 sewer pipe with storebought fittings (blast gates, etc.) then you will find that there is a mismatch in diameters.  I found that 2mm thick closed-cell polyurethane foam  from Joann Fabrics (crafting dept.) makes excellent gasket material.  Also, for small installations such as home shops, it is unnecessary to run ground wires - this myth was exploded long ago - but the pipes may build up a static charge and attract dust and become stimulating.

 

There are a few other shopvac / dust collection system nuggets:  

 

1. You can use it to collect small parts as they are cut off - make a collection tube that fits the hose, and then place a piece of hardware cloth or window screen at the juncture of the hose and tube.  Place the tube opening near the saw blade The piece will be sucked into the pipe and trapped against the screen.

 

2. You can use it to accurately measure relative humidity in the shop using a thermometer and RH tables.  Observe the dry bulb temperature, then wrap the bulb with a cloth or paper towel soaked with room temperature water.  Turn on the dust collector and hold the thermometer at the air intake until the temperature drop stabilizes.  Then note the temperature & difference and look up the RH in published tables or nomograms.  The large volume air drawn past the thermometer gives a better air sample to measure the average humidity in the shop.  I don't know if this is important for shipmodeling, but for guitarbuilding the RH must be controlled, usually ~40-55% RH.  

Edited December 12, 2016 by Bob Blarney

[Jaager]

Bob,

 

I was thinking that a vac will pull the same volume of air / unit of time irrespective

of the pipe diameter from infinity to a diameter that is small enough to offer significant

resistance to flow.  The suction at the business end would depend on the aperture.

 

If the problem is with the flow being sufficient to keep the suspended material in the air

stream and not settle out inside the tube, I can see where the kinetic energy within the air

stream would be affected by the pipe diameter ( the other factors being constant).  I guess

this is another Dennis Moore type situation.

[Jaager]

If the problem is the dust settling out in a long run of a large diameter pipe,

then removing the dust early in the system would solve it.  Place the cyclone

trap close to the intake part - it is silent and passive.  The manifold piping and

valves cold be replaced with just moving the 5 gal bucket with the trap from machine to machine.

[HSM]

"1. You can use it to collect small parts as they are cut off - make a collection tube that fits the hose, and then place a piece of hardware cloth or window screen at the juncture of the hose and tube.  Place the tube opening near the saw blade The piece will be sucked into the pipe and trapped against the screen."

 

This is a great idea Bob, I will try this! When cutting small parts with my preac they fly everywhere.

[ChrisLBren]

Gents - here are some progress shots of my workshop - notice 2 out of 3 tables are on rollers for maximum efficiency. Also they are height adjustable.  I installed the JET Air Filtration system as well.  Next up - on order - 10 inch table saw and 13 inch planer to break down a swiss pear board for my next build.  

[WackoWolf]

I like it. And as long as your happy that is all that matters. Good luck with the new shop.