Need tips on deadeyes rigging

[Tallsails2]

Everytime I get to the stage of rigging the deadeyes, I hate it and almost want to give up. Does anyone have a good tip on rigging the deadeyes and keeping them the same length. Any tips or build log would be greatful.

 

Eddie

[mtdoramike]

I use a piece of wire shaped like an elongated "U" which I would use to keep the proper spacing between the lower and upper deadeyes. It's a pain for sure, but you have to like a challenge to get through it and on to the next task.

 

 

PS: I might also add here that most people try and make the shrouds too tight. They don't need to be as tight as a banjo string, just taught. I know this because I have done it myself and if you hate doing it once, try having to do it twice because you put too much pressure on one side or the other and caused the misalignment of the main mast compared to the others. 

mike   

Edited January 1, 2017 by mtdoramike

[Tallsails2]

Thanks Mike,

 

One thing about building is it's taught me to be patient. I also build remote control sailplanes, but they are much larger (3 meters) but I do love building these old ships. It's great being retired and having time to build.

 

Eddie

[Richvee]

I'm currently building the Kate Cory, and "studying" jablackwell's wonderful build log of his Kate Cory. Among many of the great tips I've found in his log, is this jig for rigging shrouds and holding deadeyes.

 

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/6842-kate-cory-by-jablackwell-finished-model-shipways-scale-164/page-7?hl=%20kate%20%20cory

[hornet]

I usually knock up a few of these deadeye holders or resize ones I have used on past builds. They are made from tie wire which is cut to the appropriate length. The ends are then bent and silver soldered together so as to hold two of the holes in the deadeye on either end - you could probably twist the wire instead of soldering it. Mount the lower deadeyes on the channels/strops then fit the wire to them ensuring the length of each is the same. You can then proceed to adjust your shrouds/top deadeyes to the appropriate length.

 

 

Cheers

Steve

[mojofilter]

Hi Eddie -

 

Like others, I made some temporary 'links' to hold the deadeyes.  I read somewhere here that it's best to leave the shroud lines un-tensioned until close to the end of rigging.  I used paper clips that I straightened and put 90* ends on them, maybe 4mm, to hook through one of the deadeye holes, one through the chainplate deadeye, and the other end through the shroud deadeye, spaced the distance I wanted.  I then terminated the shroud top end.  It was nice to be able to un-hook the shroud and move it out of the way for deck work.  When I was ready, I started the lanyards one at a time, from aft forward, alternating port/starboard.  Definitely not tight, just 'pulled up'.  In the end I pulled a fore stay just a little to pull the shrouds just barely taught.

[Tallsails2]

Thanks guys for the tips. I now see what I was doing wrong. Sometimes this old age stuff gets in the way of the brain being able to function (eek,ha ha). It will be much simpler now than the way I was doing it.

 

Eddie

[davec]

The stays are all at different angles, so the distance between deadeyes actually varies slightly.  It may be something you can deal with by sizing them all the same and using different tightness on the lanyards.  I use a little different jig which accounts for the difference.

[jablackwell]

Hi Eddie,

 

Looks like some really good solutions to keeping the deadeyes all the same height.... I am taking notes as well.  I used a wire jig (already noted here in message #4 above, Richvee.    http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/6842-kate-cory-by-jablackwell-finished-model-shipways-scale-164/?p=350446

1. My solution was to have the lower deadeye in place already.
2. Get the jig to hold the upper eye in place.
3. Thread the shroud into place at the top of the mast and tension it with a alligator clip.
4. Tie the top deadeye onto the shroud using whatever methods... I wrap the shroud around the eye, then clip it and then seize it.
5. Release the clips to get them out of the way. Remove the spacer jig, and finally thread the lanyards through the deadeyes. 

I am really liking davec's method above as well.  A jig is the key.

All the best,

~john

[allanyed]

Dave,  I really like your locator board to hold the deadeyes in place while the shrouds and stays can be turned around them.  I see you have not yet done so, but would it be easier to make the shroud and stay cross overs and apply the cross seizing if the top of the jig was even with the top of the upper dead eyes.  That way the crossovers and seizing would be above the jig thus easier to make.  Page 42 in Lees'  shows this area in a drawing better than I am sure I am explaining it.  

 

Allan 

[davec]

Hi Allan-

 

The picture was from my first build, before I knew that the shroud was supposed to cross above the deadeye.  It does work for properly rigged shrouds, but I didn't take any pictures when I used it on my last two builds.  I don’t make any attempt to finish the lashings on the jig. The mast isn’t fixed in place at this point, and I try to do most of my rigging off the model.  I mostly use the jig to determine the right lengths, and usually just put a simple lashing where the shroud crosses to mark the right place.  I take the mast off the model to put the final lashings on.  Much easier to do on the bench top than with the deadeye dangling in midair.  It would probably be easier with less jig above the deadeye.

 

Dave

[allanyed]

Thanks Dave. 

 

I do look forward to using a wooden jig such as you have shown, but cut down as you mention you did recently.

 

Allan

[GuntherMT]

I made a simple board out of some balsa wood (something it's actually useful for!) much like what davec did:

 

 

I found this to work quite well.  I used wire just poked right through the balsa to pin the deadeyes in place, and a couple more wires through the deadeyes at the bottom to hold the wood in position.

[twintrow]

Remember too that the purpose of the deadeyes is to adjust the tension on the shrouds.  Realistically the deadeyes then would not always be exactly in a straight line.  Some variation would be expected.  This is one area where I think we builders try and strive for perfection where perfection did not actually exist.  Admittedly the straight line "looks" better , or neater, but not necessarily scale.

IMHO

Tom

[GuntherMT]

Remember too that the purpose of the deadeyes is to adjust the tension on the shrouds.  Realistically the deadeyes then would not always be exactly in a straight line.  Some variation would be expected.  This is one area where I think we builders try and strive for perfection where perfection did not actually exist.  Admittedly the straight line "looks" better , or neater, but not necessarily scale.

IMHO

Tom

 

True enough, but I want them nice and straight on my models anyway.  

[Worldway]

On 1/11/2017 at 2:30 PM, twintrow said:

Remember too that the purpose of the deadeyes is to adjust the tension on the shrouds.  Realistically the deadeyes then would not always be exactly in a straight line.  Some variation would be expected.  This is one area where I think we builders try and strive for perfection where perfection did not actually exist.  Admittedly the straight line "looks" better , or neater, but not necessarily scale.

IMHO

Tom

 

On 1/12/2017 at 0:05 AM, GuntherMT said:

 

True enough, but I want them nice and straight on my models anyway.  

Just curious, why would you want straight deadeyes if you're trying to produce an accurate model?  As Tom stated they all have different tension on them therefore they would never be in a perfect line.  In my opinion (as novice as it is) wouldn't it be easier and more accurate to just install the deadeyes "freehand"?

 

 

I truly hope BetaQDave doesn't mind me borrowing his picture

[GuntherMT]

1 hour ago, Worldway said:

 

Just curious, why would you want straight deadeyes if you're trying to produce an accurate model?  As Tom stated they all have different tension on them therefore they would never be in a perfect line.  In my opinion (as novice as it is) wouldn't it be easier and more accurate to just install the deadeyes "freehand"?

 

 

My parents taught me to "Never say Never".

 

Two things.

 

1) I am building the model for myself, not for some historical nit-picker somewhere, and I like how they look aligned and straight.

 

2) I just finished looking through all my photo's from two different Festival of Sail events in San Diego, and every ship that had deadeyes has them nicely aligned and straight.  This even includes the HMS Surprise whose rigging is in terrible shape currently.  I did a Google image search on the USS Constitution, and HMS Victory, as well as Pride of Baltimore II.  All of them have neatly aligned and straight deadeyes, although the Victory does have some with a bit of a twist, the photo's also indicate that she's in a partially down rigged state in those photo's, no idea if that is status quo or not for her.

 

Here is a photo of the San Salvador, a replica of the Spanish Galleon that the Spanish sailed into San Diego Harbor on while exploring the West coast.

 

 

So, like everything else with our hobby, this isn't something that can be generalized and stated that 'they were all like this', as it no doubt varied from ship to ship, just like our photo's show two very different ships (but from the same era) as far as how the rigging and deadeyes are maintained.

[xken]

I am in the process of doing that with my Constitution build now and just finished the lower sections on all three masts.Note in the picture that I inserted a 1/8" x 1/4" wood strip between the dead eye lines to align the deadeyes facing forward and then tied each in place to the sheer pole. More pictures on my build.

 

[popeye2sea]

I look at it this way.  The shrouds are made in a defined way to certain lengths.  They all act on the same point at the mast head and they are set up in pairs.  It would be very easy to get and keep them set up all in a line.  And they would all be under equal tension unless you ease the foremost one occasionally when the sailing master wants to brace up very sharp.  Why wouldn't they be all in line?

 

Regards,

[John Allen]

On 3/24/2017 at 8:37 PM, GuntherMT said:

1) I am building the model for myself, not for some historical nit-picker somewhere, and I like how they look aligned and straight.

I am a moderate novice, semi-experienced, not near pro status. I build for my minds eye each to his own. I also think when displayed the straight lined dead-eyes look better, has more aesthetic appeal and when there misaligned it takes your focus away from the whole build. (tongue & cheek shall we say)

 

[thibaultron]

In model railroading we have a saying. "There is a prototype for everything!" We also have a saying, "Never put a window in a chimney!" A couple weeks ago I posted this picture, on my Railroad Forum:

 

When I was a teenager, I passed this house everyday going to school, and just looked it back up on GOOGLE Maps. Having said that, you also have to consider your viewer. Sometimes making a model realistic, can also make it look odd, or unfinished. In the end, however, it is up to you, what you want in your model.

[tennfox]

Im starting to do the deadeyes and ratlines on my 1:100 Greyhound.  Tan cord came with the model, but Id like to do black on them instead.  Does anyone know the diameter of the in between the deadeyes, and the diameter of the upper deadeye up for this scale?  Then diameter of the ratlines for this scale?  Im thinking  .25mm and .50mm but Im not sure.  Ive also seen people use wire for the lower deadeye to the hull.. What gauge/diameter is usually used?

Edited October 14 by tennfox

[Gregory]

You might take a look here:

 

As for the size of ratlines, smaller is better.

 

I posted this in another ratline discussion.

..at 1:100 scale an accurate number would be .005 " or .127mm.

 

The best fit you will get will be some sort of sewing thread.

[amateur]

Lower dead-eyes were fitted (depending country/period), by chain, shackles, iron straps.

distance between deadeyes: a measure often found is 2.5 times the diameter of the deadeyes between them. Don’t know whether that is based on any historical source, but it looks ‘pleasing to the eye’.

 

and with respect to ratlines: as said: the thinner the better. Ratlines are by far the thinnest rope on a ship.

 

Jan

[Dr PR]

Carpet and button threads come in several sizes. I have some J & P Coates Dual Duty cotton covered polyester thread that is 0.007 inch (0.18 mm) diameter. It is very smooth without loose fiber "fuzzies." You should be able to find something like this at a sewing or fabric store.

[dvm27]

Here is a video link to Kudin's method of turning in the deadeyes. It takes some practice but worked well for me on my last project. Try to master the seizings as you'll need them for many aspects of rigging.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzVOOi3Eo5U