Chris Watton and Vanguard Models news and updates

[BobG]

I think I may need to wait and see the Flirt and how she looks and compares to the Speedy but patience is not my best quality...

[James H]

19 minutes ago, BobG said:

I think I may need to wait and see the Flirt and how she looks and compares to the Speedy but patience is not my best quality...

I don't think you'll be disappointed.

 

As soon as Fifie is finished, I'll open a build log for Flirt.

[VTHokiEE]

1 minute ago, James H said:

As soon as Fifie is finished, I'll open a build log for Flirt.

This is exciting! I enjoy your work (and your photography quite a bit, almost makes me want to break my gear out instead of being lazy with my phone... almost 🙂

[James H]

I've done a whole series of photos for the forthcoming HMS Flirt. 

 

There is some repetition on these sheets as parts such as lower mast trees are shown on ply, although the kit will have them in wood instead. You'll notice a few quirks here with some parts added and removed from sheets. There will be two editions of this kit, with a standard kit supplied with pear, and also a Master Shipwright release with boxwood. The latter also has 3mm birch ply bulkheads and false keel, plus a number of other differences. The standard release and MS release both now have laser engraved lower decks, with the standard in 2mm Ceiba, and the MS in birch ply. 

 

I'm sure Chris will answer any questions. I'm off to finish the Fifie so I can make a start on Flirt!

 

 

[JeffT]

I might as well just start a monthly direct deposit to Chris 😀

[glbarlow]

2 hours ago, JToma said:

a monthly direct deposit

I was thinking the same thing - 🙂

[glbarlow]

Is there such a thing as boxwood dowels for mast and yards.... 😄 

[chris watton]

12 minutes ago, glbarlow said:

Is there such a thing as boxwood dowels for mast and yards.... 😄 

I have tried to find out if I can get pearwood dowel, but never get an answer. I think a light dowel would suit a boxwood model, and limewood isn't too bad for this, and much easier to work with when tapering. I know that the equivalent boxwood sheet is almost four times the cost of pear, which is also expensive when compared to the basswood sheet. I don't care as long as people do not paying a little more the material, at least I know the parts are not going to split by just looking at them...

[ASAT]

20 minutes ago, glbarlow said:

Is there such a thing as boxwood dowels for mast and yards.... 😄 

Nope, You gotta make ‘em 

[glbarlow]

31 minutes ago, chris watton said:

a light dowel would suit a boxwood model,

I’d like to hope for something that would compliment the boxwood design for Flirt. Walnut would be a bit of a downer, unless they were fully painted. In for a penny in for a pound I believe the expression goes. 

[glbarlow]

30 minutes ago, ASAT said:

You gotta make ‘em 

I guess we could do that if there was any boxwood of the right dimensions to be found in the world. Although I’m sure it be a bit pricey. Chris’ thought of lime is a good one. 

[chris watton]

4 minutes ago, glbarlow said:

I’d like to hope for something that would compliment the boxwood design for Flirt. Walnut would be a bit of a downer, unless they were fully painted. In for a penny in for a pound I believe the expression goes. 

I know, but the problem is I cannot source boxwood or pear wood dowel, the nearest I can get it limewood

[glbarlow]

1 hour ago, chris watton said:

limewood

Of course its up to you, I don't know how lime wood would hold up (as in I really don't know) and I understand boxwood and pear are out.  It was just a thought....

[DelF]

2 hours ago, glbarlow said:

2 hours ago, ASAT said:

You gotta make ‘em 

I guess we could do that if there was any boxwood of the right dimensions to be found in the world. Although I’m sure it be a bit pricey. Chris’ thought of lime is a good one. 

If you can get good castello boxwood it’s not too expensive. I made the spars for Royal Caroline from some 6mm and 10mm sheets, each about 100mm x 1000mm. They were about £30 for the two although the price has probably gone up since. I had plenty left over and used some to plank my recent pinnace. 
 

I may do the same for Speedy, but don’t tell Chris. 
 

Derek 

[Justin P.]

FULL DISCLAIMER: This question may have been asked somewhere else, or the answer is obvious to all but me. 

 

BUT...   Is the laser cut deck planking a template or is intended to be the final finish?    I think I might prefer to have planked decks, and if so is this something these kits can easily be adapted to accept?   Just curious about tolerances...   

[glbarlow]

2 hours ago, DelF said:

I may do the same for Speedy, but don’t tell Chris. 

I look forward to seeing how that goes.  I’m going for the Master Shipwright version of Flirt. If it’s all boxwood I’d rather try almost anything other than walnut. 

[glbarlow]

20 minutes ago, Justin P. said:

This question may have been asked

It has, its intended to replace planking the deck, but nothing prevents you from planking over it - both have been done and shown in other build logs. 

[chris watton]

1 hour ago, Justin P. said:

FULL DISCLAIMER: This question may have been asked somewhere else, or the answer is obvious to all but me. 

 

BUT...   Is the laser cut deck planking a template or is intended to be the final finish?    I think I might prefer to have planked decks, and if so is this something these kits can easily be adapted to accept?   Just curious about tolerances...   

You can do whatever you want! The kit has a ply sub deck with the laser engraved deck that is adhered to its top surface. Just replace the laser engraved deck with individual planks. I would use the drawings of the scribed deck in the plans, however. 

[Justin P.]

1 hour ago, glbarlow said:

but nothing prevents you from planking over it

4 minutes ago, chris watton said:

You can do whatever you want!

 

Thanks guys!  Glad to hear it, I love these kits but am well aware that small changes can throw builds out of wack.   Was just thinking in my head how badly it could go for me if I got in over my head going to far afield from the instructions!     Just skipping the installation of the scribed deck makes perfect sense and wouldn't add layers that complicate things later.  

[hollowneck]

On 4/22/2020 at 1:34 PM, glbarlow said:

Is there such a thing as boxwood dowels for mast and yards.... 😄 

Glenn,

I use square stock mostly for all masts and spars. To form the rounded sections I use a simple planing jig. A lot more work, clearly. ...BUT- This allows me to precisely taper and shape the center octagonal sections on yards extant on all 17/18th- C period ships. On masts, there are also square sections where tops must rest; this is considerably easier (and much more precise) when one starts with square section stock. In some instances I've stained final wood pieces, but boxwood doesn't take stain very well if one desires a darker appearance to their masts. To overcome this problem with boxwood, I have used Fiebing's leather dye (alcohol-based) successfully; it comes in several beautiful brown shades.

 

In the attached photo you can see that I used Swiss Pear for the model's two masts; all spars were made from boxwood, painted flat black.

 

Ron

 

 

[glbarlow]

I'm going to get some experience with square stock with Cheerful.  So when you say planing jig...?

 

I get the squaring off verses rounding off, but as I'm not interested in owning a lathe I'd be interested to hear more and maybe a photo of your jig. I can probably sort it out with my handy DeWalt battery powered drill, I'm all for seeing how the experts do it and any way that would make it more precise than turning my drill with sandpaper and files in hand.

 

Your dioramas are amazing, I thought you were showing me a painting..l.

[hollowneck]

59 minutes ago, glbarlow said:

I'm going to get some experience with square stock with Cheerful.  So when you say planing jig...?

 

I get the squaring off verses rounding off, but as I'm not interested in owning a lathe I'd be interested to hear more and maybe a photo of your jig. I can probably sort it out with my handy DeWalt battery powered drill, I'm all for seeing how the experts do it and any way that would make it more precise than turning my drill with sandpaper and files in hand.

 

Your dioramas are amazing, I thought you were showing me a painting..l.

Glenn,

Here are two pics of my "planing jig." One shows a piece of pear square stock(8mm and long), the other, a shorter piece of Boxwood (10mm). Both photos show the grooved stock holding blocks and the end stop on the jig. The jig can securely hold square sections about 18" long and about 12-14mm (max) thick. As you can see, much smaller square sections can be accommodated easily (5 different sized holding grooves); I haven't run into a mast or spar yet when I couldn't use this simple jig. Yes - one does need to create the holding blocks and secure them to the baseboard (I have 4 total on the full jig length). I used a precision tablesaw (with a tilting table) to cut these grooves in a block of wood (maple, I think) and then "sliced off" the four pieces I needed. I chose to have three of the blocks fairly close together so I could plain-down short wood sections. Even hardwoods will bend slightly under planing pressure you'll apply: the close spacing fully supports the stock, end-to-end.

 

It is also good to invest in high-quality "finger" plains. The ones shown here are used for precision musical instrument woodworking; I got them both from violin maker tool vendors (one here in the U.S.-Ibex, and the other in the U.K. - Sheffield). Google 'em if you're interested. Not inexpensive, but superbly crafted tools with high-quality steel blades.

 

Note that once one has reduced the square section pieces to fully round cross sections, you'll still need to use sandpaper by hand - or employ a small lathe/drillmotor, etc. to finish. I do all of these sanding steps typically. Note that when making yards that there is an octagonal center section which will be easy to mark off when the eight sections are equal. One then carefully continues shaping to a round section with the plains on either side of the octagon. This part, going the eight flats to the fully round section takes some practice to get right.

 

Hopefully, my description and photos gives you a good idea on how I start my masts and spars for my models.

 

Cheers! - Ron

 

PS Thanks for your kind comment. I'm now working on my 4th diorama and I keep learning how to do water a little better each time. I love to present my models as living, "dynamic" artifacts, albeit from another era. On my latest model, I learned how to use new materials to simulate splashing water. Who knew?! It's a whole new thing (pour moi!)... on my current build I'm trying to figure out how a small river flows into the seashore- fresh water meeting salt water. It's a "thing" - trust me!!!

[druxey]

Ron explains really the best way to make masts and spars. Dowel is for beginners. Also, by planing the stock four-square, then eight-square; the taper is controllable and it's exactly how it was done in the shipyard.

[glbarlow]

I own no planers, that in itself would be interesting. Thanks for the photos and explanation. I’ll try and sort out making the jig and look for a planer.

[hollowneck]

1 hour ago, glbarlow said:

I own no planers, that in itself would be interesting. Thanks for the photos and explanation. I’ll try and sort out making the jig and look for a planer.

You are welcome. Try this link Glenn: https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/planes/32680-instrument-makers-planes?gclid=CjwKCAjw-YT1BRAFEiwAd2WRtmihasIlb4xC1d9xPZhxLv67iKKCGoeHCizMVbLTFKd8ymx37ItkRhoCGLAQAvD_BwE

 

I own several different finger and small planes (flat, convex and concave soles/blades), but the only one I use consistently for modelmaking is the Ibex (with a flat blade and sole). This is a personal preference because this particular tool offers me a really good feel in-hand and this helps me to control very fine movements; however, there are numerous other makers who make good quality planes.

 

Sorting-out making the jig will take some time and effort but it will be worth it. Of course, you'll also need to source decent square hardwood stock, or mill these pieces yourself.

 

Ron

[glbarlow]

I have Cheerful, the masts and yards are square stock.  I think I may be doing it next, not sure yet.  Chris coming out in July with Flirt Master Shipwright version gives me pause starting Speedy.

 

I saw the Ibex site - there were so many versions and blade size no idea where to start.  https://www.metmusic.com/tools/ibex-planes/ I'll go for the one on your link - but what blade size.  I'm really a novice planer, I may slice my thumb off.

  

[hollowneck]

Glenn (and others who may be interested),

Here is another link for a precision planer: https://www.highlandwoodworking.com/ibexluthiersflatsolefingerplane36mm.aspx

Ron

[hollowneck]

5 minutes ago, glbarlow said:

I have Cheerful, the masts and yards are square stock.  I think I may be doing it next, not sure yet.  Chris coming out in July with Flirt Master Shipwright version gives me pause starting Speedy.

 

I saw the Ibex site - there were so many versions and blade size no idea where to start.  https://www.metmusic.com/tools/ibex-planes/ I'll go for the one on your link - but what blade size.  I'm really a novice planer, I may slice my thumb off.

  

Glenn try this link (from the link site you went to): https://www.metmusic.com/tools/ibex-planes/round-planes/50505-ibex-flat-plane-5-225mm-blade

 

Yes, be extremely careful with these planes. You'll need to set the blade cutting depth carefully to NOT shave off too much stock at one time; several light passes are best and safer. On larger stock sections (say, 8mm), as the cuts broaden with successive strokes you'll need to apply more pressure; this is the point when one needs to be diligent. The other rule of woodworking blades of all kinds: keep them sharp! The blade in the Ibex can be easily removed and re-inserted very quickly.

 

Ron

[MEDDO]

1 hour ago, hollowneck said:

Sorting-out making the jig will take some time and effort but it will be worth it.

The jig can be relatively simple.  Here is an example from a demo I saw at the most recent NRG conference.  Extra piece of wood to hook onto the edge of table so it doesn't slide forward.  The V grove can easily be made by just cutting off a corner from a square at a 45% angle then gluing 2 pieces together to get a nice 90 degree V slot.  I am pretty sure he was using at least a 3/4 inch chisel maybe even 1 inch wide.  Worked great

 

[chris watton]

Jim Hatch has finished the prototype model for the Zulu's stable mate, the Fifie Lady Eleanor.

 

The foremast for both Zulu and Fifie is actually comes in 8x8 and 6x6 square walnut respectively, as the bases of the masts are square.

 

Am hoping Zulu will be ready for release at the end of next week, and Fifie the week after, depending on how quick I can put the manual together and how quick the printers can get the plans, manual and box label done..

 

Oh, I had my boxwood sheet arrive yesterday. Started to laser cut the 1mm, and it cuts (and etches) well - although I did have to scrap a couple of sheets due to my own stupidity...

Edited April 24, 2020 by chris watton