Chris Watton and Vanguard Models news and updates

[chris watton]

6 minutes ago, glbarlow said:

I only have the two, guess I better get busy ordering stuff. Texans are very competitive 😁

I am forced to agree.....

[glbarlow]

7 minutes ago, chris watton said:

I am forced to agree.

😂🤣

[ccoyle]

12 hours ago, ErnieL said:

at my building pace I now have enough Vanguard Models kits to give me 574 years of quality bench time

Which is partly why, as nice as Chris' kits are, I'll not be buying one in the near future. After all, I've still got HMS Fly on a shelf, started in 2006 and still waiting ...

[ErnieL]

On 8/4/2020 at 10:14 AM, ccoyle said:

Which is partly why, as nice as Chris' kits are, I'll not be buying one in the near future. After all, I've still got HMS Fly on a shelf, started in 2006 and still waiting ...

You should see my 1/32 aircraft kit stash.  It truly defies description. 

[ccoyle]

11 minutes ago, ErnieL said:

You should see my 1/32 aircraft kit stash.  It truly defies description.

I've seen others with the disease, er ... "habit."

[BobG]

42 minutes ago, ErnieL said:

ou should see my 1/32 aircraft kit stash.  It truly defies description. 

Photos please!

[ErnieL]

7 minutes ago, BobG said:

Photos please!

Uuuuh, ok, but just a couple or three.

 

mostly Wingnut Wings and resin kits.

[Moab]

OMG! I thought I had a lot of kits. Fantastic...Moab

[BobG]

I decided that the Flirt will be the first warship I will build. I was torn between the pear and the boxwood models since I think they are both beautiful woods. I finally decided to get the boxwood version because I've heard modelers sing praises about boxwood and lament the fact that it's hard to find anymore. So the Master Shipwright version has been ordered!

[Landlubber Mike]

19 hours ago, ErnieL said:

Uuuuh, ok, but just a couple or three.

 

mostly Wingnut Wings and resin kits.

Nice stash!  Those Gotha G.IVs are worth a fortune now.  I was fortunate to pick up a few kits at retail just when Wingnut announced they were closing.  Now that they indeed seem to be done, the prices have really gone up the last few weeks.

[glbarlow]

I think you have a problem 😂🤣

[glbarlow]

16 hours ago, BobG said:

Master Shipwright version has been ordered!

Excellent! I’m certain you’ll enjoy the build. Be sure to let us know when you have log started. 
 

[dkuehn]

Just ordered the Flirt kit. I tried to order a couple times with WorldPay and kept getting some fatal error and couldn't complete the purchase. I just tried Paypal and it went through fine. Now I sit back and anticipate its arrival...

[chris watton]

1 minute ago, dkuehn said:

Just ordered the Flirt kit. I tried to order a couple times with WorldPay and kept getting some fatal error and couldn't complete the purchase. I just tried Paypal and it went through fine. Now I sit back and anticipate its arrival...

Thank you! I will email WorldPay and ask them why you had a problem, they are usually very good.

 

Nothing much to update right now. I have commissioned three sizes of carronade to me done for me, for future kits and separate fittings. I am currently working on PE sets for each size of cannon and carronade, as I have the cannon barrels being cast for me not and will be delivered next month. So I will be able to offer the carriage, PE detail (eyebolts etc.) and cast black resin barrels from 4-32-pounder sizes (64th only)

 

The royal yacht is still on target for an October/early November release. There will be no hold ups for any materials as I already have everything for the kit with me (apart from print work, which cannot be done until manual and prototype model is complete). I start cutting the production parts for this next week.

 

I think I will do a few more sizes of ships boats after the yacht, plus ships stoves, as I shall need them for future designs anyway.

[ErnieL]

Chris, you’re trying to drain us dry, aren’t you?  

I’ll certainly be there, even though I’m still knocking about at Speedy’s hull. 

And thoroughly enjoying it as well.

My father in law passed last month, and some woodworking on the bench is just what the Doctor ordered to relieve the stress from in laws and gold diggers.  Without the ship kit, I’d be swearing at a plastic model of some type.

[chris watton]

Thank you Ernie, and sorry to read about your father in law.

 

There will be quite a lull after the Duchess of Kingston, as I will need to work out what to do next.

 

There are still a couple of larger (95-108 foot) brigs I would like to do, but am wary about developing too much of the same type.  There are two I have in mind that have main armaments of 16x32 and 16x24 pounder carronades and 2x6 pounder chase guns respectively, and another that has a main battery of 18 x 9 pounder carriage guns (and hull lines to die for) . What do you guys think?

 

I would like to develop a frigate next - although this will take a lot longer to develop and new machinery may be required: 

 

I am considering getting another laser machine next year, a more powerful laser for the thicker ply and MDF keel and bulkhead sheets that the much larger kits will have. This would be a big investment, but feel I need a second, more powerful laser machine, especially for the size of future kits I intend to do.

[VTHokiEE]

11 minutes ago, chris watton said:

another that has a main battery of 18 x 9 pounder carriage guns (and hull lines to die for) . What do you guys think?

It’s probably due to my limited naval knowledge and familiarity (or maybe from the LEGO ships of my youth) but I love the way carriage guns look and I haven’t quite warmed up to carronades yet so I vote for the 18x9.

[chris watton]

1 minute ago, VTHokiEE said:

It’s probably due to my limited naval knowledge and familiarity (or maybe from the LEGO ships of my youth) but I love the way carriage guns look and I haven’t quite warmed up to carronades yet so I vote for the 18x9.

I know what you mean. I have designed three sizes of carronade barrel, which hopefully will make them painless to make. The problem is that it seems that most brigs and brig-sloops/ship rigged-sloops had carronade main armament from the mid 1790's onwards. There is no getting around this. Plus they would all have been coppered below the waterline.

[Edwardkenway]

24 minutes ago, chris watton said:

 

I would like to develop a frigate next - although this will take a lot longer to develop and new machinery may be required: 

 

In my opinion doing 2 or 3 more brigs is great as I'm a big fan of the two masted warships,  maybe a small 1740's 20 gun frigate such as Blandford or Sheerness or slightly larger 24 gun porcupine class (Pandora or Pelican) before the heavies like Shannon 

[VTHokiEE]

28 minutes ago, chris watton said:

The problem is that it seems that most brigs and brig-sloops/ship rigged-sloops had carronade main armament from the mid 1790's onwards. There is no getting around this.

Variety is the spice of life; I’ll have to give them a second chance. 
 

I’m going to look for a book about the evolution of naval armaments, it seems like a fascinating subject. 

[chris watton]

31 minutes ago, VTHokiEE said:

Variety is the spice of life; I’ll have to give them a second chance. 
 

I’m going to look for a book about the evolution of naval armaments, it seems like a fascinating subject. 

My experience with model carronades isn't good. They are either simple turned brass parts, always in the wrong size, or very shoddy mismatched white metal, bordering on scrap

[ccoyle]

Hey, Chris.

 

Choosing what kits to issue and what order to issue them in is undoubtedly a real challenge with inherent financial consequences. I think that taking a look at what have been popular sellers for Caldercraft and Amati/Victory models based on message traffic at MSW could be helpful. There's little doubt in my mind that your impending Dutchess of Kingston will sell well, because it is akin to Fly/Pegasus in size and ornamentation. Brigs and sloops were the workhorses of the RN, true, but I think there can be too much of a good thing in a manufacturer's lineup, e.g. Caldercraft's Jalouse and Mars, which are great kits that are only infrequently seen around here. Same could be said for Amati's Mercury -- awesome model, but how many build logs for it do we have going right now? I think the suggestion of a 20- or 24-gun frigate is a good one, as that would be an incremental step up from Speedy/Flirt, and it is also a subject that is lacking in the broader kit model selection. Afterwards, a heavy frigate bearing the Vanguard Models brand name will sell like hotcakes, I'm fairly certain, especially if it is one with a history, and will justify your investment in machinery. Fun stuff to look forward to!

[chris watton]

Thanks for the comments, Chris, always appreciated.

 

I do know that if I am to design such kits, they will need a 'USP', as I have no intention of treading (very) old ground, and any new 100 foot-ish brig would need to be special.

 

Still not made my mind up about what to do after Duchess...

[Morgan]

I think financially a pair of frigates such as Shannon and Chesapeake would out sell any others on the market, there is a real history there with broad appeal on both sides of the Atlantic (and broader), the great thing with a Leda class such as Shannon is that there are over 40 sister ships to choose from from the Leda herself with open rails forward through to the Trincomalee and later berthed up configuration.  I know this has been touched on before, but there is a point when you have to look at the balance between what you want to design and what sells and that is so much harder with the larger kits.

 

of course Endymion and President would have a similar broad appeal.

 

Gary

[chris watton]

5 minutes ago, Morgan said:

I think financially a pair of frigates such as Shannon and Chesapeake would out sell any others on the market, there is a real history there with broad appeal on both sides of the Atlantic (and broader), the great thing with a Leda class such as Shannon is that there are over 40 sister ships to choose from from the Leda herself with open rails forward through to the Trincomalee and later berthed up configuration.  I know this has been touched on before, but there is a point when you have to look at the balance between what you want to design and what sells and that is so much harder with the larger kits.

 

Gary

I do intend to do a Leda Class at some point, but this is a large frigate (although smaller than the Lively Class), and will take 10-14 months to fully develop, plus the use of a more powerful laser machine, as bulkhead and keel thicknesses will be twice that of what I currently have. So if I did both Shannon and Chesapeake, this would be 2-3 years of development, and having nothing new to bring out in the meantime. This type of subject needs to be done once I have a healthy range already out.

 

However, the first frigate I have in mind to do will be quite popular, I am sure. Plus I think I can develop this with my current set up.

 

If I were simply designing 'Block Models' like most other manufacturers, then no problem, I could pop out a few new big kits each year. But I don't want to do that, I want develop new stuff with more detail (expanding on my Victory designs) and whenever possible, better materials, and these take a lot longer - but ultimately worth the extra effort, I think.

[Nirvana]

Chris, is there any chance you might look into creating a kit of more modern style.

Don't get me wrong here,  I like the old type of sailing ships and their sophisticated rigging. But one area of ship/yacht type that is still not commonly seen is large civilian yachts from 1930's and forward. Instead of cannons/rigging etc the details will be on interior. Just my two cents.

[glbarlow]

I want to re-register my vote for a small frigate like Sphinx. The big 40’s are gun platforms and while they may have history, they are readily available and don’t have much character. The perhaps lessor know and smaller frigates aren’t targets of the big manufacturers and are more unique to build, because they were unique when they existed. I mean how many gun carriages do we need to make. At some point British ships became a bit cookie cutter.  
 

Admittedly I say this with Pegasus and Vanguard already displayed on my shelves, but I think a model that doesn’t take two-three years to build has an audience, at least this audience member. I don’t want to sort out many more 4 pounders like Speedy and Flirt, and I get it about carronades even if they aren’t as sexy as 12 pounders. So a 20 gun range frigate is my recommendation. I liked building Granado, the bomb ship deck mortars have character and were interesting to build as another example. 

[chris watton]

13 minutes ago, Nirvana said:

Chris, is there any chance you might look into creating a kit of more modern style.

Don't get me wrong here,  I like the old type of sailing ships and their sophisticated rigging. But one area of ship/yacht type that is still not commonly seen is large civilian yachts from 1930's and forward. Instead of cannons/rigging etc the details will be on interior. Just my two cents.

Maybe one day, but I need to go through my list of subjects that I will definitely do first, all between 1750 and 1806. I thought yachts were well catered for, as most have a kit of one or more?

[ccoyle]

5 minutes ago, chris watton said:

I thought yachts were well catered for, as most have a kit of one or more?

That depends on how one defines the word "yacht." America's Cup racers are relatively well-represented (numerous versions of America, Mamoli's Puritan, Amati's Endeavour, etc.), but the really elegant sailing and motor yachts of yesteryear are not on anyone's radar. Chris may recall that at one time I suggested that he look into doing a kit of Coronet, which is currently being restored at the International Yacht Restoration School, so lots of info on her construction should be available. Sadly, though, I think that a kit of any of these glamorous vessels would only ever appeal to a small slice of our membership, since they don't have the requisite lots of guns. So as Chris hinted, something like this is probably best reserved until after he gets an established basic lineup in place.

[chris watton]

Coronet looks nice. But then, most sea going sailing vessels look nice - but not all graceful like that one..

 

Here are the sample cannon barrels I received last week. The ones on carriages are a 9-pounder and 18 pounder. The rest are 12 pounder (lone standard and one for an early 32 gun frigate), 24 and 32 pounders. The retail versions will be in black resin, these are grey so I can more easily see the detail.