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Posted

Thank you, Rodger, Phil and Kurt, for the great info on soldering.  Kurt, I haven't done all that much brass soldering and I didn't know about this anti-flux paste.  I can see how useful it would be and I'm going to order some and play around with it. 

 

Gary 

Current Build   Pelican Eastern-Rig Dragger  

 

Completed Scratch Builds

Rangeley Guide Boat   New England Stonington Dragger   1940 Auto Repair Shop   Mack FK Shadowbox    

 

Posted
On 3/23/2023 at 2:34 PM, realworkingsailor said:

 

If I may, one of my other hobbies is collecting brass model locomotives, so I may be able to provide some insight. Pretty much all brass model trains available are hand assembled, even commercially made ones. Generally the production runs are very small (a few hundred units of a given type), so the industry does not lend itself to expensive tooling and mechanization. The only fundamental difference between a brass locomotive kit (or scratch build), and a "factory" assembled model is the box it comes in.

 

IMG_2329.thumb.JPG.5b68e2f7273cca1e027ee63b82bc3297.JPG

 

Pretty much all of the solder joints are located in areas that are largely invisible, so that a causal observer wouldn't see them. (There is a little tarnish and staining on this model as its previous owner suffered a house fire and the model was subject to the liberal application of water that fire departments are rightfully well known for), it's otherwise in good mechanical condition. The model was built by Samhongsa in Korea and imported by Van Hobbies (who had a working relationship with Pacific Fast Mail).

 

IMG_2330.thumb.JPG.7ab638f43630ba00f055348590fc3540.JPG

 

After removing the three screws that hold the shell to the frame, you can see the underside, and interior is quite mottled with solder joints.

 

IMG_2331.thumb.JPG.90a9cc9fca11f2bec50fd821c057c636.JPG

 

Adding to an earlier post about soldering multiple details, in most brass train models, multiple different solders are used with different melt temperatures. Starting with the highest temperature solder and working down to the lowest (although it's worth noting that in the above model, none of the solder will melt with your typical OTC hardware store soldering iron. To perform any repairs, generally a resistance soldering iron is needed, at the very least.

 

Andy

 

 

Not to hijack this thread, but I recently visited a fellow Great Lakes freighter model builder here, and in showing me his paper model collection, he also showed me his brass locomotive collection........they are very impressive - he has them in a display case and it was really beautiful to look at.

  • 5 weeks later...
  • 2 months later...
Posted

It’s been a long time since my last progress report, but life has kept me away from the workshop.  We spent the month of March in Florida, with a scheduled return on April 1.  This is “high season” and accommodations are always full.  We were scheduled to return home on April 1.  That morning we got an email from Delta airlines saying “Your flight is cancelled due to Minneapolis weather and we are unable to book you on a future flight.”  At least they didn’t tell us to have a nice day.  As remaining in Florida indefinitely was not an option, we decided to drive the rental car home.  We did break the road trip at the halfway point to visit our son in Evansville, Indiana.  We finally arrived home on April, 12.

 

Once back we caught up with household paperwork and then began a round of Dr Appointments.  My wife has an iron constituton, but my internist found a problem that I had overlooked while in Florida.  This involved appointments with local specialists and ultimately a trip to the, Mayo Clinic that will happen in the near future.  This all sounds more serious than it actually is.  Although we receive excellent medical care in Duluth, Mayo has more specialized equipment and procures.

 

Meanwhile, I was able to finish the forecastle subassembly.  The thin brass sheet is easily damaged so much “body work” is required.  This involves filling noticeable dents with Bondo, removing blobs of solder, spraying a coat of primer, and then repeating the process.  I have  Proxxon pencil sander and pencil engraver.  These are great tools for getting into tight places.  I have long since used all the pads that came with the sander, new ones are easily cut from adhesive backed sanding discs.

 

Photos below.  The first photo is plexiglass that will fit behind the subassembly to provide window glass and doors.  Much of the primer will be sanded off then the subassembly is fitted to the hull.  The assembly is fitted to a block of wood to temporarily protect it.

 

Roger

 

BEDD8C83-9C1D-448D-92C1-9BDEC9A37D2B.thumb.jpeg.60dffbf8970d55e40386ffc468717b11.jpegEA22FB2E-DBE0-4DBF-9131-F2457FEDC990.thumb.jpeg.863f945a5c21ed7b9346f7837eeb6927.jpeg8578D048-BF1E-4097-85A1-8DC440B765E7.thumb.jpeg.e0b964ff87220ef337e8e3a1a345986b.jpeg79AAB543-C515-4E62-9CC8-F8E97CAA449F.thumb.jpeg.941bac9119f02e9b9fbe60aae8a2d3f2.jpeg9923CE41-7F24-42DC-BF5C-E1040ACD60EF.thumb.jpeg.d2d7e404a006788da5fd6af83e3f2779.jpeg

Posted

Looking good! Glad to see you back at it Roger, hope the medical problems are minimal and a speedy return to full health is close at hand. 
 

-Brian

Current Builds:                                                                                                 Completed Builds:

Mississippi River Towboat Caroline N.                                                    HMB Endeavor: Artesania Latina

                                                                                                                    USS Constitution - Cross Section: Mamoli

Non-Ship Builds:                                                                                              HMS Victory - Cross Section: Corel

New Shipyard                                                                                             King of the Mississippi - Steamboat: Artesania Latina

                                                                                                                     Battle Station Section: Panart (Gallery)

In Dry-dock                                                                                               Chaperon - 1884 Steamer: Model Shipways  

USS Constellation: Aretesania Latina                                                       USS Cairo - 1862 Ironclad: Scratch Build 

Flying Fish: Model Shipways                                                                               

                                                                                                                            

                                                                                                                            

Posted

I'll keep my fingers crossed for you Roger that all goes well with the medical.

Mark
"The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me

Current Build:                                                                                             
Past Builds:
 La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD           Triton Cross-Section   

 NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit                                                                            HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64               

 

Non-Ship Model:                                                                                         On hold, maybe forever:           

CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed                                                   Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned)         

         

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                

Posted

 Praying your doctors are able to determine the cause of your medical problem and that they are able to correct it. Please take care.....Keith 

Current Builds:  1870's Sternwheeler, Lula

                             Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee

                             Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia

 

Completed: 1880s Floating Steam Donkey Pile Driver                       

                       Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration

 

 

  • 5 weeks later...
Posted (edited)

image.thumb.jpg.d14acbff335d197aa906c2257cc851d0.jpg
ANCHORS

 

Benjamin Noble was outfitted with two 3200# National pattern stockless anchors.  Anchors were and still are essential navigational tools for vessels sailing on the Great Lakes.   Visitors to Duluth are sometimes surprised to see several ship anchored offshore.  Last week there were several 1000 Footers.  This happens because dispatchers cannot always synchronize unloading in one port with loading in another.  Once a ship enters port she begins to incur all sorts of miscellaneous charges so she anchors offshore until the loading facility is ready to receive her.  With very few exceptions, Duluth is one, Great Lakes port’s are very small. Many are nothing more than the mouths of rivers draining small watersheds.  Before vessels were fitted with bow and stern thrusters, anchors could be used to help maneuver. By dropping an anchor while slowly moving ahead a vessel could turn itself around within a short distance.  And of course, the anchors could be dropped in a sheltered place to “wait out weather.”

 

Making Benjamin Noble’s two anchors is best treated as building two small stand alone models.  There were many different patterns of patented stockless anchors.  Fortunately there is a National Pattern one on display in Duluth’s Canal Park.  There is also an article in an old Nautical Research Journal that includes a drawing and a table of dimensions.  The full sized anchors were steel castings and I originally thought about casting mine using a carved wooden pattern.  I eventually decided to use my favorite material; brass, soldered together.  So, the first step was to break the complex shape of the anchor into simple geometric shapes:

 

Flukes- cut from sheet brass

Bottom plate- sheet brass

Shank- square brass wire

Bottom weight- round brass rod

Reinforcing fins- brass square tube.

 

Patterns for the flukes and bottom plates were made by expanding the NRG drawing with a Xerox, tracing the various parts on Mylar and then Xeroxing them  down to the proper scale.  I have recently been experimenting with an Elmer’s brand PVA glue formulated for gluing porous materials to nonporous ones.  This did an excellent job of gluing the paper patterns to the brass.  I don’t own a jewelers saw, but found the shapes to be easily shaped using needle files.

 

The semi-circular bottom weight was milled using from brass rod and parted off in the lathe but could have been filed to shape.  The anchors were built as two sub assemblies; flukes and bottom plate, and lower, semi-circular weight and fins.  

 

To join the upper and lower assemblies, I used JB Weld Epoxy as I was concerned about solder heat damaging previously soldered joints.  When using this on metal my luck has been hit or miss, sometimes a good bond, sometimes not.  In this case the shank passing through both the upper and lower assemblies locks them into place.  The white paint is primer.  Later they will be painted black.

 

Roger

 

 

image.jpg

Edited by Roger Pellett
Posted

A beautiful build Roger,

congrats to your good work

 

Nils

Current builds

-Lightship Elbe 1

Completed

- Steamship Ergenstrasse ex Laker Corsicana 1918- scale 1:87 scratchbuild

"Zeesboot"  heritage wooden fishing small craft around 1870, POB  clinker scratch build scale 1:24

Pilot Schooner # 5 ELBE  ex Wanderbird, scale 1:50 scratchbuild

Mississippi Sterwheelsteamer built as christmapresent for grandson modified kit build

Chebec "Eagle of Algier" 1753--scale 1:48-POB-(scratchbuild) 

"SS Kaiser Wilhelm der Grosse" four stacker passenger liner of 1897, blue ribbond awarded, 1:144 (scratchbuild)
"HMS Pegasus" , 16 gun sloop, Swan-Class 1776-1777 scale 1:64 from Amati plan 

-"Pamir" 4-mast barque, P-liner, 1:96  (scratchbuild)

-"Gorch Fock 2" German Navy cadet training 3-mast barque, 1:95 (scratchbuild) 

"Heinrich Kayser" heritage Merchant Steamship, 1:96 (scratchbuild)  original was my grandfathers ship

-"Bohuslän" , heritage ,live Swedish museum passenger steamer (Billings kit), 1:50 

"Lorbas", river tug, steam driven for RC, fictive design (scratchbuild), scale appr. 1:32

under restoration / restoration finished 

"Hjejlen" steam paddlewheeler, 1861, Billings Boats rare old kit, scale 1:50

Posted

Very nice Roger. A lot of work for such a tiny piece. 
 

-Brian

Current Builds:                                                                                                 Completed Builds:

Mississippi River Towboat Caroline N.                                                    HMB Endeavor: Artesania Latina

                                                                                                                    USS Constitution - Cross Section: Mamoli

Non-Ship Builds:                                                                                              HMS Victory - Cross Section: Corel

New Shipyard                                                                                             King of the Mississippi - Steamboat: Artesania Latina

                                                                                                                     Battle Station Section: Panart (Gallery)

In Dry-dock                                                                                               Chaperon - 1884 Steamer: Model Shipways  

USS Constellation: Aretesania Latina                                                       USS Cairo - 1862 Ironclad: Scratch Build 

Flying Fish: Model Shipways                                                                               

                                                                                                                            

                                                                                                                            

Posted

The Main Deck:  

 

Lake freighters with their long narrow hulls are dominated by their long parallel mid bodies; a long box that carries the cargo.  This was capped by the main or spar deck.  Technical papers of the time criticized the design of these vessels for their lack of internal watertight subdivision.  Specifications for steel merchant ships usually specified the number of compartments that could be flooded without sinking the vessel. (Titanic’s owners required her to be a “two compartment” ship.)  The Naval Architect’s job was and still is to space watertight bulkheads accordingly.  Great Lakes vessel were not subdivided.  There was a watertight collision bulkhead beneath the forecastle and another immediately forward of the boilers.  The rest of the hull was one long cargo space.  While this allowed vessels to be quickly loaded and unloaded quickly, flooding of the cargo space sank the ship.  On the lakes’ restricted and often foggy waters collisions and sinking were common.

 

Benjamin Noble’s main deck was pierced for six hatches.  I will discuss the hatches in a later post.  

 

An unusual, by 1914, design feature were four foot high bulwarks enclosing the main deck.  Vessels designed for bulk cargo trades; ore, coal, and stone, had open pipe railings instead of bulwarks.  Benjamin Noble’s bulwark turned the main deck into an opened topped box to protect a deckload of pulp wood logs.

 

The photos below show the main deck and bulwarks for the model.  Built several years ago, one photo shows the deck dry fitted into the hull.  The hatch coamings are just set atop the deck in their approximate locations.  The assembly began with a wooden framework with deck frames cut to the correct camber.  A deck of thin craft plywood was then added.  The brass deck plating was attached using pressure sensitive 3M transfer tape.  Unlike the hull plating which uses the “in and out” system the deck is clinker plated.  I normally don’t like PSA tape but is has now held up for several years and edges are anchored by the bulwarks and will be further anchored by the hatch coamings.

 

The bulwarks were fabricated from .010in brass sheet, cut to shape.  The sheer angle was cut from square brass tubing, ripped on the Byrnes saw.  The cap rail is 1/16in round brass tubing slotted on the Byrnes saw.  The triangular supports  began as .010in brass sheet cut into squares.  They were folded over an aluminum pattern before being trimmed to their final shape in the mill.  I used an old fine tipped Bernz O Magic torch perfect for our needs to solder everything together.  I tried to buy a replacement- no longer made.

 

The bulwarks are pierced with a number of openings that need to be fitted with closures, reinforcements, etc. and the hatches need to be detailed.  This work will complete the main deck.

 

Roger

 

91C3EAD1-7399-46F8-8381-70FF35AB5C97.thumb.jpeg.7dd440f2c7de17d06225d5e62f797624.jpeg8C4AB2ED-BBAE-4161-A8A1-AFDA044B97B5.thumb.jpeg.fd2547e29bb9d0e828177f498b17816e.jpeg6455C555-691B-487D-9141-C213FE87EA3F.thumb.jpeg.39a60399dde4c7f82ff15efe86d5a7da.jpeg

 

 

Posted

Great insight on the construction history of these freighters. Doesn’t sound like the engineers were focusing on safety and integrity of the hull as much as they were for functionality and capacity. She’s really starting to look like a ship now. 
 

-Brian

Current Builds:                                                                                                 Completed Builds:

Mississippi River Towboat Caroline N.                                                    HMB Endeavor: Artesania Latina

                                                                                                                    USS Constitution - Cross Section: Mamoli

Non-Ship Builds:                                                                                              HMS Victory - Cross Section: Corel

New Shipyard                                                                                             King of the Mississippi - Steamboat: Artesania Latina

                                                                                                                     Battle Station Section: Panart (Gallery)

In Dry-dock                                                                                               Chaperon - 1884 Steamer: Model Shipways  

USS Constellation: Aretesania Latina                                                       USS Cairo - 1862 Ironclad: Scratch Build 

Flying Fish: Model Shipways                                                                               

                                                                                                                            

                                                                                                                            

Posted
16 minutes ago, Roger Pellett said:

Thank you Wefalck.  I am working on hatches and need to go back and review your deck painting scheme.  I need to figure out how to simulate weathered planking for the boards making up the hatch covers.

 

Roger


Have you tried any of Hunterline’s weathering mixes?

 

https://hunterline.com

 

They’re available various shades, made with a rubbing alcohol base. Frequently used in the model railway community for structures and the like.


I believe it is also available through MicroMark.

 

Andy

Quando Omni Flunkus, Moritati


Current Build:

USF Confederacy

 

 

Posted (edited)

I think one should make a distinction between 'weathering' and painting to achieve a weathered look. The former tem is applied by various modelling communities to a variety of techniques using materials other than paints applied after the main paint-job to achieve an (ab)used, chipped, worn and weathered look. However, weathered wood planking on ships' decks can be achieved by using different transparent layers ('washes') of paint only - very much as the painters of old have done. There is, of course, a gray-zone between the two approaches.

Edited by wefalck

wefalck

 

panta rhei - Everything is in flux

 

 

M-et-M-72.jpg  Banner-AKHS-72.jpg  Banner-AAMM-72.jpg  ImagoOrbis-72.jpg
Posted

Benjamin Noble’s wooden hatch covers were typical of those used on cargo vessels of the day.  Each hatch was covered with about 12 separate covers, each cover made up from wooden planks.  I’m not trying to make these look abused or beat up.  I am looking at a paint scheme to differentiate the different planks within each cover- your “paint only approach.”  This will challenge my limited artistic skills!

 

Roger

Posted

I've used simple artists' pastels to weather models for a very long time, including my past steamboat models logged here, as well as various model railroad applications.

 

If it were me, I'd take each hatch plank and rub a bit of suitable pastel or weathering powder onto it. The inevitable slight different in application thickness and style will likely give you the subtle effect you're looking for.

Posted

The Hunterline Driftwood stain gives your wood pieces a worn, well used look. And the stain is absorbed differently in each strip of wood, to give you a little more dissimilarity.

Ken

Started: MS Bounty Longboat,

On Hold:  Heinkel USS Choctaw paper

Down the road: Shipyard HMC Alert 1/96 paper, Mamoli Constitution Cross, MS USN Picket Boat #1

Scratchbuild: Echo Cross Section

 

Member Nautical Research Guild

  • 2 weeks later...
Posted

Freeing Ports:

Scratch Building is a series of small models within the overall model.  Each of these small models involves the following thought process:

1.  Identify the item to be built as a small model

2. Determine what the item looks like or in some cases what did known items used on this other vessels in this same time period look like.

3.  How do you plan to represent the item at the required scale; ie how much detail to you plan to include.

4.  What materials and techniques will provide a quality reproduction.

 

The following project completed during the past several weeks illustrate this process:

 

Bulwark Freeing ports

The bulwarks are pierced with eight freeing ports.  These are rectangular, each closed by a flapper plate hinged from the top so a head of standing water on the deck would push the flapper open and drain the deck.  Gravity would also open the flapper if the vessel heeled.  At 1:96 scale, these flappers are quite small 7/16” x 3/16”.  The plates were made from .010” brass which was temporarily glued to a piece of craft plywood.  They were then easily cut on my Byrnes Saw.  At the small scale, I could only simulate the hinges.  I decided to show strap hinges. The straps were made from 22 gauge square copper wire.  The two straps needed to be precisely soldered to the flapper plate.  Once located they had to be rigidly held in place while being soldered.  I therefore made the fixture shown below from a block of wood.

 

The large groove was cut with a 3/16” milling cutter in the Sherline mill.  The strap hinges were to be 5/16” apart so two groves spaced at this distance were cross cut on the Byrnes Saw.  The plate and straps were then dry fitted in the fixture and the plate was shifted until the spacing from the strap to the plate edge was exactly the same on each side.  A wooden stop to register the plate in the groove was then glued in place.

 

The square wire strap material was tinned with solder.  When heated with the soldering iron I got a sound joint.  The copper straps will be trimmed to length when they are finally soldered to the bulwarks.

 

DAE69450-0224-4B6A-B90B-D6A9406DADCA.thumb.jpeg.dde31b0f0f2ee8bbc0e8387f18ebab44.jpeg

F5AF03CC-EBCC-49EA-AFBA-300852637DAF.thumb.jpeg.23e1d98287206091f814e7544767247f.jpeg

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