Covering up CA

[Laggard]

I have some tan rigging lines and blocks with a bit too much CA on them.  By accident.  Causing them to look unnaturally shiny and crusty.  What can I use to cover up this look?

 

Thanks. 

[Jaager]

I think that the cold hard solution is to remove the malformed rigging sections and replace with new.  This time use either shellac or bookbinders PVA  (pH neutral) instead of CA.

A willingness to scrap subpar work and start over is a useful mindset and habit - especially for scratch build.   The short redo time will save a much longer time of feeling regret every time you look at the model.

Edited October 13, 2021 by Jaager

[ccoyle]

Try a matte clear acrylic top coat.

[allanyed]

The combination of CA & Rigging  is not quite as bad as mixing vinegar and bleach but definitely two things that should never meet.

(except to make a needle tip on a line to be rigged)     

Allan

[Laggard]

49 minutes ago, Jaager said:

I think that the cold hard solution is to remove the malformed rigging sections and replace with new.  This time use either shellac or bookbinders PVA  (pH neutral) instead of CA.

A willingness to scrap subpar work and start over is a useful mindset and habit - especially for scratch build.   The short redo time will save a much longer time of feeling regret every time you look at the model.

Appreciate that.  Newbie here.  Took me two hours to rig this tiny section.  No way I’m undoing it.  Next build I’ll get it right.  😊  I simply don’t have the dexterity to tie a 3 mm block to a mast using a bowline knot. Or any knot for that matter. 

Edited October 13, 2021 by Laggard

[glbarlow]

CA is perfectly ok to use with rigging if sparingly used with a very light touch. Clear Matte acrylic is a good alternative but without the holding power. Seems like learning to seize lines to blocks is the skill you need for next time. 
 

Sorry to say in my experience and in my opinion once the CA is there in excess and dried there isn’t much to do except regret not redoing it when you look at it later. As Chris noted the clear acrylic might help, but really the thing to do is do it over after learning to seize lines. I don’t think any of us tie bowline knots on models. There is no magic solution. 

[Laggard]

Once I finish this I’m going to practice seizing blocks and tying knots using the silk that we have to use for rigging.  I’m convinced a neurosurgeon would struggle with some of this.  
 

Next model is going to be a bit larger than this 10” thing.   I can’t work on such a small scale.  

[Bob Cleek]

5 minutes ago, Laggard said:

Once I finish this I’m going to practice seizing blocks and tying knots using the silk that we have to use for rigging.  I’m convinced a neurosurgeon would struggle with some of this.  
 

Next model is going to be a bit larger than this 10” thing.   I can’t work on such a small scale.  

What the other guys said. Fact is, the less CA one uses, the better the model is for all that. A tiny drop of clear shellac on a rigging knot will soak into the cordage and dry invisibly, holding it forever. If you ever need to undo it, another drop of denatured alcohol will dissolve the shellac and permit the knot to be untied while it is wet with alcohol. 

 

Actually, surgeons don't struggle with rigging ship models much at all because they have learned how to tie knots with instruments. (And they don't tie bowlines, either. There are many easier knots to choose from.) Modelers would find it helpful to learn how to tie rigging knots the way surgeons tie sutures. There are a ton of YouTube instructional videos on the subject, many posted by medical schools. You'd be amazed what can be done with forceps, needle holders, and tweezers. See: how to tie a surgical knot with instruments - YouTube

 

 

 

[Chazz]

Depending on where on the rigging you need to fix...whether you can reach it reasonably well...you might try swabbing the offending area with acetone on a small brush or piece of tissue held in a tweezer (this time be careful...both with the application and the ventilation).  The area treated should dry fairly flat. You can also wipe that area while wet with cloth or tissue to leave a flat finish,

 

I know,,,I can hear the screams now  "Acetone is dangerous" and so forth.  It certainly is but it CAN be used with care.  I find it dissolves CA quite quickly for cleaning CA bottle nozzles, etc.

 

Chazz

[Roger Pellett]

knots were used to secure little if any running rigging aboard ship.  Have you ever tried to untie a knot in a piece of wet rope, particularly on a dark night when it is under load?  Cleats, bollards, bits, and belaying pins were all invented to allow lines to be snubbed or cast off off under load.  This is a case where friction is our friend.

 

Likewise knots were not used to strop blocks.  Tying a line around a tiny block is like trying to tie one around a watermelon seed.  No wonder that you resorted to CA ☠️ to hold the block in place.  Before the development of internally stropped blocks in the second half of the Nineteenth Century blocks were stropped with an endless rope grommet, think of a rope donut.  These are not difficult to make.  The strop would be seized to the block which also produced an eye that could be lashed to wherever it was needed.

 

My system for producing these strops comes from Longridge, The Anatomy of Nelson’s Ships.  I’ll be happy to post the details when I have some time if you’re. Interested.

 

Roger

[allanyed]

I think a lot of us are interested Roger!!

Thanks

Allan

[Laggard]

So much to learn, y’all.  I first need to get a grasp on the terminology.  Stropping, seizing, beckets, etc!!!   Crazy 😛 

[mtaylor]

Laggard, there are quite a few on-line nautical dictionaries which are a big help....  like this one:   https://webarchive.nla.gov.au/awa/20110215215247/http://southseas.nla.gov.au/refs/falc/contents.html

 

A bit of Googling for "nautical dictionary" or "nautical terms" etc. you see quite a few.   You can also use the search feature here to see what's been listed and discussed.  It's at the upper right hand corner of any page.  There's also dictionaries specializing in various languages.

 

There's also this one which is a deep rabbit hole...   http://www.boat-links.com/boatlink.html

[Laggard]

5 minutes ago, mtaylor said:

Laggard, there are quite a few on-line nautical dictionaries which are a big help....  like this one:   https://webarchive.nla.gov.au/awa/20110215215247/http://southseas.nla.gov.au/refs/falc/contents.html

 

A bit of Googling for "nautical dictionary" or "nautical terms" etc. you see quite a few.   You can also use the search feature here to see what's been listed and discussed.  It's at the upper right hand corner of any page.  There's also dictionaries specializing in various languages.

 

There's also this one which is a deep rabbit hole...   http://www.boat-links.com/boatlink.html

Oh I know.  This damn ADD makes this stuff difficult.   Thanks. 

[Gregory]

14 hours ago, Laggard said:

So much to learn, y’all.  I first need to get a grasp on the terminology.  Stropping, seizing, beckets, etc!!!   Crazy 😛 

 

Something we bring up from time to time; ask yourself are you making a model of a ship, or a miniature ship?

 

With the rigging, if you are modeling, you want to use whatever methods let you give the appearance of full size rigging.  As scale goes down, details are lost, and trying to follow full size practice for making knots and such, results in over sized details.

 

I don't know if this is a good example to illustrate what I'm saying, because the builder is pretty much following full size practice, but it shows what can be accomplished, and is something to strive for.

 

La Créole 1827 by archjofo - Scale 1/48 - French corvette

 

I find small amounts of CA are useful in rigging, to hold something in place, when it will be hidden under a lashing or seizing..

 

 

[Gregory]

PS

 

Here is some nice work by   Moreplovac on his Brigantine Phoenix at 1:72 ..

You can skim through the log for more detail..

 

 

[AJohnson]

On 10/14/2021 at 4:39 PM, Roger Pellett said:

My system for producing these strops comes from Longridge, The Anatomy of Nelson’s Ships.  I’ll be happy to post the details when I have some time if you’re. Interested.

 

Roger

Yes please Roger! 👍

[AJohnson]

Also does CA go brittle over time, I am guilty also of using CA on rigging and wonder how long it might last.  Have tried using fly tying varnish, but that has come undone on a few occasions?  Is PVA the best way generally. 🤔

[Gregory]

12 minutes ago, AJohnson said:

Also does CA go brittle over time

Cured CA is plastic, so it could get brittle under the same conditions any plastic would.  Sunlight would probably be the biggest influence..

Next up, would be extreme temperature.

[mtaylor]

21 minutes ago, AJohnson said:

 Is PVA the best way generally. 🤔

I'd go with PVA myself but others use shellac as it's easier to "undo" the joint if the ropes need adjusting.

[Chuck]

One solution to get rid of the shiny spots is to use weathering powder.  But hopefully your rigging is somewhat crisp

still without large lumps of CA.  There isnt a thing you can do about lumps.

 

but if you just have shiny spots they can easily be fixed.  Especially the dark brown or black rope.  
 

For tan you will need to do  your best to select a tan weathering powder that matches the rope color.  Just be sure to cover the deck below because no matter how careful you think you are the powder will fall to the deck.  
 

If it does…blow it away quickly.  Dont wipe it or you will be weathering your deck and fittings.  
 

i use a smallish paint brush to apply to the rope.  I usually use it on served rope.   But I have done so on tan as well.  Sorry I have no photos but hopefully this makes sense.

[Justin P.]

On 10/13/2021 at 2:22 PM, Bob Cleek said:

Actually, surgeons don't struggle with rigging ship models much at all because they have learned how to tie knots with instruments. (And they don't tie bowlines, either. There are many easier knots to choose from.) Modelers would find it helpful to learn how to tie rigging knots the way surgeons tie sutures. There are a ton of YouTube instructional videos on the subject, many posted by medical schools. You'd be amazed what can be done with forceps, needle holders, and tweezers.

My step-dad (pediatric surgeon, ret.) used to practice on grapes.    Of course now they do this with robots! New modeling tool anyone?

 

 

[Bob Cleek]

I want one! Of course, there is a catch... it costs between $1.85 million and $2.3 million. I'll have to wait until a Chinese clone is available on the internet for a couple of hundred bucks.  In the meantime, I'll flag this to repost the next time somebody complains about the cost of a Jim saw.  

 

 

Edited November 4, 2021 by Bob Cleek

[kearnold]

On 10/13/2021 at 3:22 PM, Laggard said:

Appreciate that.  Newbie here.  Took me two hours to rig this tiny section.  No way I’m undoing it.  Next build I’ll get it right.  😊  I simply don’t have the dexterity to tie a 3 mm block to a mast using a bowline knot. Or any knot for that matter. 

I will be having the same issue.  I have only worked in 5 mm and my fat fingers can hardly hold on to the tiny pieces 😅 

[Steve G]

On 10/13/2021 at 8:22 PM, Laggard said:

Appreciate that.  Newbie here.  Took me two hours to rig this tiny section.  No way I’m undoing it.  Next build I’ll get it right.  😊  I simply don’t have the dexterity to tie a 3 mm block to a mast using a bowline knot. Or any knot for that matter. 

 

Hi. I'm also new at this but I do feel qualified to offer you some advice, but you are free, of course, to take it or leave it. Although it took you two hours, when the model is complete you will spend weeks or months looking at it. Every time you do, all you will see is the problem you did not correct. I build guitars and other instruments and have taken the route you propose on more than one occasion and have regretted it every time. Put it down to a learning experience and do it again. You know it makes sense. 😉