F-86F-30 Sabre by Egilman - Kinetic - 1/32nd scale

[Egilman]

Short update..

 

The second largest decal the left side vertical stabilizer decal.... 

Waiting for it to shrink from the Micro Sol.... Seems like it went on ok.... When it dries completely, I'll do the right side and see what I get...

[Egilman]

Another short stabilizer update...

 

The left one seems to have gone down ok....

You can see where it split around the trim tab actuator but that's an easy touch up....

 

I went ahead and put on the right side....

Still has to finish drying but it looks like it is conforming to the surface fine, you can also see where they got the angle a slight bit off, not worth screwing with...

 

They have gone down fine, I don't know what the problem with the fuselage main stripe was but it doesn't look like it's effecting the rest of the sheet.... (which is good, the stars and bars are pre-cut for the speed brakes, I sure would hate losing those... I would have to cut the Print-Scale ones manually, ouch)

 

So, what I'm going to do is continue to put the rest of them on except for those that have to go over the stripe... They will have to wait for painting....

[Canute]

The checkerboard looks like it was painted on. Too bad that one decal disintegrated on you. And it's a major part of your scheme.

[Egilman]

Thanks Ken...

 

That's what Micro Sol does for decals, softens them so they stretch/shrink fit over whatever is underneath... 

 

Their advertising is "For that painted on look" and yeah it's telling the truth... In many ways I'm glad it was the main stripe and not one of the others, the Print-Scale set is made for the stripes to be painted then the 4" black edges decals laid over the yellow paint edge... Not how I really wanted to do it, but it is what it is....

 

But I also learned a few other things in researching the ID stripes themselves... Just about every model maker and decal producer has the fuselage stripe decal wrong... They have them curving over the back in a rounded loop... They weren't painted that way in real life... When they were painting those stripes, they dropped a line from the aft end of the open canopy to a point on the fuselage back and made a mark... The stripes down both sides start from that point and continue in a straight line to the end point of the flap on each side... There is no curve to them at all across the top, they come to a point... There is only one pic I've been able to find of a top plan view of an actual aircraft... A 4th FIW Sabre when it had the black and white stripes, (just prior to converting to the yellow for all Sabres) in the same pattern taken in flight... They were pointed at the top of the fuselage, discussion in several fora of old pilots says the same they were pointed... 

 

Thinking about it, it is the easiest way to do it in the field with simple tools....

 

The wing stripes were 36" wide and the fuselage stripe was 21-24" inches wide with 4" black borders.... The decals are in scale I'm happy to say and the checkerboard pattern edge angle is off on every real life sabre I've been able to see it on... Overall the decals are great, just very unfortunate that the biggest one of all decided to split apart at the critical moment...

[Canute]

Surprising for a relatively recently printed decal, but I suppose every batch has a lemon or two. All in all, a very well done job. And an interesting fact about those stripes. Thanks.

[Javlin]

looking good EG and yep the fuse band is a beotch I was surprised the yellow on the 51 worked as good as they did.

[Jolley Roger]

6 hours ago, Egilman said:

But I also learned a few other things in researching the ID stripes themselves...  They were pointed at the top of the fuselage, discussion in several fora of old pilots says the same they were pointed... 

Agreed!🙂

[Egilman]

10 hours ago, Jolley Roger said:

Agreed!🙂

THANK YOU SIR!!!

 

That first image is a great general reference image for the insignia pattern showing the pointed stripe..... Also, you have it over most variations of F-86 usage RF-86F in the first image, a foreign service F-86E (australian), and a flight of US F-86F's... That is the best confirmation of my educated guess anyone could provide, full rounded and total...

 

Thank you Very Very Much...

 

You da Man!

Edited August 4, 2022 by Egilman

[Egilman]

On 8/3/2022 at 5:35 PM, Canute said:

Surprising for a relatively recently printed decal, but I suppose every batch has a lemon or two. All in all, a very well done job. And an interesting fact about those stripes. Thanks.

Thanks Ken,

Yep surprising that it is only the main stripe, the checkerboards were right next to it... I searched for a while online and I could only find one copy protected pic and anecdotal testimony, sufficient to convince me but not enough to offer as absolute proof... Thanks to Jolly Roger who provided the evidence of my presumption... I love this fora...

On 8/3/2022 at 5:59 PM, Javlin said:

looking good EG and yep the fuse band is a beotch I was surprised the yellow on the 51 worked as good as they did.

Thanks Jav.... 

 

Your 51 came out very nice...

 

Yellow on decals has always been a hit or miss proposition, sometimes it covers well others it doesn't similar to white... Generally you have to prime underneath them with either white or grey which is going to present a problem here... I will get into it on the next update....

[Egilman]

Update...

 

I have to paint the mid fuselage ID stripe... My technique of doing this is simple but involved... Please bear with me as I explain it...

 

The Insignia Yellow paint is scheduled to arrive on Monday so I need to start prepping for it now....

 

The first step is to mask out where the marking goes....

The inside edges of the tape represent the position of the marking... and we need to double check to see if we get it close...

Close enough...  All painting will take place within the tape boundaries... 

The bottom is roughly laid out as well...

We then clear the insides of the tape overlap...

And at least check and see if the opposite side looks the same...

The second step is coming up, re-masking the edge and covering the rest of the fuselage in masking paper to protect it from the next parts of the process.......

 

More as I get to it....

Edited August 5, 2022 by Egilman

[Egilman]

I just got an updated notice from the PO that my paint will arrive in today's mail!!! Wow! that is fast for the USPS from Maine to Washington... They must have put it on a plane...

 

So I guess I had better get my butt in gear... {chuckle}

 

Update coming soon...

[Javlin]

EG a thought...maybe take the yellow out to the black outside borders then mask off the yellow to inside and paint the black or is that the plan?That way only two more tape lines inside for the black.Seems I did mine that way.

[CDW]

Very happy to see how well the Rub n Buff turned out for you on this model. The Sabre is such a gorgeous airplane, and your model really does it justice.

[popeye the sailor]

yep......decals can be a problem.  either they are too glossy or flat,  or they are thick or thin........thin making them more prone to cracking.  you could paint the yellow and then source out black pinstripe decaling to finish it off. you can also print black stripe decal on your computer.  I have a decal program as well.   there are thing at your disposal that you can do.  super silver job overall.........I think you succeeded quite well!  

[Egilman]

5 hours ago, CDW said:

Very happy to see how well the Rub n Buff turned out for you on this model. The Sabre is such a gorgeous airplane, and your model really does it justice.

Thanks Craig... I put a fair amount of research and time into figuring it out and I think it's bearing fruit, still a lot of learning to go with it to reach Paul Coydrette's expertise level, but at least I know the direction to go now... (I'm hoping that more modelers take the dive and experiment with it, give it the place it deserves in modeling)

 

The Sabre is one of the most beautiful aircraft designs ever built, I only hope I do it justice.....

5 hours ago, popeye the sailor said:

super silver job overall.........I think you succeeded quite well!  

Thank you Dennis... I am still hoping so, it's not finished yet....

Edited August 5, 2022 by Egilman

[Egilman]

5 hours ago, Javlin said:

EG a thought...maybe take the yellow out to the black outside borders then mask off the yellow to inside and paint the black or is that the plan? That way only two more tape lines inside for the black. Seems I did mine that way.

Thanks Jav,

 

Yep, that is the way it is usually done, but I have some issues here that the finish creates, one of which is the coating of future that is on it, paint doesn't stick too well to it... This needs a different approach...

 

5 hours ago, popeye the sailor said:

yep......decals can be a problem.  either they are too glossy or flat,  or they are thick or thin........thin making them more prone to cracking.  you could paint the yellow and then source out black pinstripe decaling to finish it off. you can also print black stripe decal on your computer.  I have a decal program as well.   there are thing at your disposal that you can do.

Thanks Dennis,

Fortunately, I had the foresight to get an extra set of decals for this the Print-Scale #32-017 for an F-86E for the tech stencils which is it's claim to fame... Included with it is extensive 1/8th" inch black stripes, (4" in scale)

And I can trim down the residuals of the Kinetic set if I have to.... If I have to I can print another, decal paper is reasonably cheap and I have HD images of the full sheet, Inkscape, and a capable printer, just need to get the fixative spray from Hobby Lobby if I need to go that way.....

 

There are a few things I need to account for with the finish and will be posting my solution soon...

 

Thanks everyone for your support and well wishes.... It's has helped a great deal given my RL situation... The Sabre and me have a kind of symbiosis going on it doesn't want to be finished and is making me work for it much like the P-51B was and F-104 have been as well... They are forcing me to make it happen... {chuckle}

 

Nothing is going to prevent me from finishing this bird... (my neighbor who helps the wife from time to time spied it on the bench and asked how I got the finish said she has never seen anything like it speaking of the metallic look, she has never built a model before and never seen a modeler at work, and it stands out for her) This kinda confirms all my brothers here have been saying...

 

All I can think of is Shepard's prayer, "Lord please don't let me screw it up now"

 

Thank you all...

 

Thank you, Thank you all...

[Egilman]

Update, Step 2

 

A normal masking procedure usually is done here except we have a hard shiny overcoat on which we need to put a glossy yellow paint layer on with a brush...

 

This is problematic in most cases, the paint doesn't stick to the hard surface and winds up very streaky and by the time you've laid enough paint to cover, the finish is uneven and very blobby...

 

So what we need is to reduce the existing hard shiny finish and use a primer to give the paint something to adhere to and thin the paint exactly to the consistency like you would to spray it and apply as many thinned coats as needed to cover... This allows the paint to lay down and level... Those who followed my USS Gwin build have seen me use this painting technique before for getting a thin even coat out of thick paint...

 

But first we have to lay down that coat of Tamiya thin grey primer... Rattlecan of course... We have to scuff up/off the hard shiny surface.... But only the surface where the yellow paint is going...

 

How do I do this?

 

We need to remask the marking area to only where the yellow is going, actually slightly smaller than the finished area cause we are going to use the decal for the black border stripes...

 

First we need to know how big the stripe is....

 

The fuselage stripe overall is 29 to 32 inches wide on the real aircraft.. (it depended on who painted it) Mostly they were closer to 32 inches, in scale that makes the stripe 1" wide overall... So what is the width of the existing decals (already on the wings we need to match the scale of the decal for the right look)

 

Clearly an inch and a sixteenth, the decals are slightly overscale. (10%) the initial masking for location takes this into account and are masked to this dimension...

Since we are not going full width for the yellow we need to narrow the area a bit, for this I masked the inner edge with 2mm Tamiya masking tape for curves...

2mm = .070 a tad wider than needed but the black stripe decal at .125 will cover the edge... The reason is cause whatever we do when the yellow goes on it's going to leave a visible edge which is going to have to be smoothed down before the stripe decal is applied...

 

At this point we build the full fuselage mask...

We line the two masks with 3/4 inch frisket tape this makes sure neither is going to move and gives you a place to attach your paper masks for the rest of the fuselage without affecting the edge of the area...

 

Then you cover the rest of the fuselage so there is nowhere for sanding dust or overspray to reach the rest of the fuselage....

Now we are ready to buff down the hard surfaced shiny area to give the primer a chance to stick and a place to lay, and so the paint will make a minimal edge when the masking is pulled....

What I'm looking for here is smoothness and a dull surface, it doesn't matter if the RnB comes off, it would be under the paint anyway....

 

Next up, sanding, priming and painting....

 

Onwards..

 

EG

 

I know this seems overly complicated, and if it was just an aluminum paint finish I wouldn't go to this length, I would just mask and paint.... The hard shell future makes this extreme process necessary and hopefully will result in a smooth transition from stripe to fuselage.... 

 

 

 

Edited August 6, 2022 by Egilman

[Canute]

It'll pay off. You've got a lot of "try" here. 👍

[Egilman]

8 hours ago, Canute said:

It'll pay off. You've got a lot of "try" here. 👍

I'm hoping so brother, I love a challenge.... {chuckle}

[Egilman]

Update...

 

Step 3, Scuff, Prime and Paint....

 

Using nail buffing sticks, I scuffed the surface between the masks...

 

Just enough to break the hard shell surface sheen, it wasn't very thick but then Future dries very very thin so it doesn't take much, and you can see how thin the RnB finish is as well just a few scuffs and I'm into the black undercoat.. you do not want to take this to plastic if you can help it... Cause if you break the undercoat edge you risk the edge lifting and that we don't want to have happen..

 

Primer....

Tamiya Thin Grey, rattlecan, done in several very thin coats, just enough to seal and cover...

Paint... 

 

True North's Insignia Yellow 2ml mixed with Mr Color Leveling thinner 2ml, (50/50 ratio) using a fine 3/8ths inch sable artists brush (high quality) you brush out an even coat on the surface....

Allow to dry and brush out another, then another and so on and so forth until you get a deep even color tone over the painted area... As many coats as required... Allowing to fully dry between coats...

 

Yes it takes time, but for a thick glossy paint it is the only way to get a thin even coverage with a brush.... The pics is the first coat, I'll post more as the color starts to build and cover....

 

This is an old technique I learned doing custom model car bodies in my youth... {chuckle} Depending on how good the paint is it may come out shiny or may not but that is ok it's what we have Future for....

 

More later...

 

Onwards...

[Canute]

Yellow is so hard to paint, since it's so translucent. The gray primer is the only route I know. You're well on your way, building up the layers. Keep it up.

[king derelict]

The painstaking work is really paying off. Looks really good

alan

[Egilman]

Update...

 

9 hours ago, Canute said:

Yellow is so hard to paint, since it's so translucent. The gray primer is the only route I know. You're well on your way, building up the layers. Keep it up.

Yes it is, one of the most difficult in my experiences Ken, especially with a brush on a wide area.... I got to five layers when I finally decided it wasn't working the way I imagined it would like the small sections I've done before...

 

So I had to come up with another way.... Update in a few...

7 hours ago, king derelict said:

The painstaking work is really paying off. Looks really good

alan

Thank you Alan.... It's appreciated....

 

By hook or by rook I'm going to get this one done... One way or the other.... {chuckle}

 

Update in a few...

[Egilman]

Update...

 

Step 4 final painting...

 

Well, it's been an adventure to say the least... Five coats of paint into it and I could see it wasn't doing what I thought it should... It was greyish yellow and blotchy, The Mr Color thinner was moving the primer underneath it... So I realized it wasn't going to work they way it does for small parts... The only way to get large even coverage with yellow paint is to spray it... and unfortunately I don't have any Insignia Yellow in rattlecan... (and Testors is 12.95 a can) Tamiya's closest shade is 8.95 a can.... But here I am with a 1/2 oz bottle  of fresh insignia yellow the perfect matching color, and no good way to apply it...

So I researched online to who locally would have a spray can of Yellow that closely approximated the right shade at a reasonable cost... Home Depot, Rustoleum, Sunburst Yellow, and only 6.95 a can... My mind was thinking on how to go about washing a bit of darkness onto it so I can match Insignia Yellow.... 

The paint guy at HD was willing to make me up as many gallons of it exactly matching my shade, but I had to explain to him it didn't matter, I had enough of the correct shade just no way to get it on the surface... Then he made a suggestion.....

 

Spray it... I ask how... He says simple.... And takes me down the aisle and points out a tool, new to me but I guess it has been around for a couple of years...

 

A Preval Spot Sprayer.... 

Load it with your thinned paint (up to 6 oz's) and spray it just like you would a rattlecan...

Right now it is soaking in thinner so the paint residue does not dry in the bottle... And it works like a charm... turns my thinned True North Enamels into an easily sprayed very thin paint... The cannisters are replaceable as well and you can get extra 3 oz jars.... It supposedly works on most paints and any liquid that can be thinned enough to spray... They do give proper thinning ratios for the various types of paint...

 

So I allowed the work I had done up to that point to fully cure and re-prepped it, scuffed it down cleaned it off and this time, primered it with Tamiya Fine white primer... Two coats is all it took...

I couldn't have asked for better... turned out beautiful... As soon as it is fully cured (it came out flat) I will re-Future it to seal it and apply the stripe decals...

I think it was 5.80, a lot cheaper than a full can of the wrong paint...

 

The man above was looking out for me today.... Because short of tracking down a can of Testors, I was SOL.... Now I have a tool where I can apply any paint I have like a spray paint...

 

All's well that ends well they say... and god looks out for fools and drunks, No longer the latter, but still the former at times... He was lookin out today...

 

 

Edited August 7, 2022 by Egilman

[Canute]

Very nice save. 👍

 

What solvent are you using to keep this gizmo clean?

[king derelict]

That looks like a very handy thing tohave around. It might have made painting the corvette a bit less of a chore. Your result is really nice

Alan

[Egilman]

5 hours ago, Canute said:

Very nice save. 👍

 

What solvent are you using to keep this gizmo clean?

Thanks Ken, it was a lucky save brother, before yesterday I had no idea that such a thing existed... What I use for general cleaning of model paint is enamel thinner, what's in the bottle now is Testors universal enamel thinner directly out of the 8oz can... I've also been known to use Gamblin's Gamsol, odorless pure mineral spirits, which I get from the artists oils section at Hobby Lobby, they work equally well....

[Egilman]

1 hour ago, king derelict said:

That looks like a very handy thing to have around. It might have made painting the corvette a bit less of a chore. Your result is really nice

Alan

Thank Alan...

 

I'll tell ya, seldom am I impressed with such shortcut gizmo's like this, most of the time they just don't work... But this just plain worked as advertised..... made a very difficult job easy peasy... It's earned my recommendation as a must have tool for that time you have a very difficult paint job to do, and no way to spray... It definitely solves a problem...

[mtaylor]

What a great find at HD.  I'm sure most if not all of never heard of that thing.    May I suggest you do a review of this tool here: https://modelshipworld.com/forum/69-reviews-model-shipwrighting-tools-parts-and-fittings/

[realworkingsailor]

34 minutes ago, mtaylor said:

What a great find at HD.  I'm sure most if not all of never heard of that thing.    May I suggest you do a review of this tool here: https://modelshipworld.com/forum/69-reviews-model-shipwrighting-tools-parts-and-fittings/

I agree! I’m curious how it’s cleaned, since as a hobbyist, one can tend to bounce from colour to colour frequently (also seeing as most hobby jobs use less than an ounce of paint at a time).

 

Andy