Sloop Speedwell 1752 by Chuck - Ketch Rigged Sloop - POF - prototype build

[Chuck]

Thats very nice but the bow timbers on Speedwell will be do e in the traditional sense individually with air spaces between them.  
 

hopefully sometime this week.  
 

Here is what it will look like …this is Gregs showing comparison with Pegasus in 1/4” scale.  Speedwell on the left.

 

 

[rcweir]

What a great project!   I've gotten my Speedwell books and will join the group project as soon as it appears, even if I have to have two projects going at the same time.  I love the large scale and the size of the finished model (though I probably won't rig mine).

 

A question about finish:  if the frames are going to be exposed, shouldn't poly (or whatever) be going on the frame sides as they're assembled?

[Chuck]

You could do that if you choose.   I have not however but I am applying a sanding sealer to the frames.  And yes the fore and aft sides were finished before assembling them on the keel.   The outboard side will be finished after final fairing.   Many folks dont apply any finish and that is another option as well.  You are less likely to highlight any color differences in the wood used throughout if you dont apply any finish at all.   Its perfectly fine to do so.   In fact I dont think Greg applied any poly or sanding sealer on his model at all.  He can confirm this of course.  

 

 

[Jim Rogers]

Is it summer yet?

[No Idea]

On 2/19/2023 at 4:07 AM, dvm27 said:

As close to a fool proof method of cant framing as I've ever seen. Amazing, Chuck!

 

The blade on my machinists square tapers to point on the fore edge. It's super accurate for transferring lines from the building board. It must have a special name but I can't find it on the internet. Perhaps a machinist will know what I'm describing.

Greg is this what you use - a bevel edge square

 

https://shop.mitutoyo.co.uk/web/mitutoyo/en_GB/mitutoyo/01.05.054B/Beveled-Edge Square%2C DIN 875/$catalogue/mitutoyoData/PR/916-108/index.xhtml;jsessionid=D09B339D444F6F36C368D93B8CF78BEB

[James G]

@rcweir, I ordered my Speedwell books today as well. I want to be ready when Chuck launches this one. Exciting, for sure!

[dvm27]

On 2/25/2023 at 9:53 AM, No Idea said:

Greg is this what you use - a bevel edge square

 

https://shop.mitutoyo.co.uk/web/mitutoyo/en_GB/mitutoyo/01.05.054B/Beveled-Edge Square%2C DIN 875/$catalogue/mitutoyoData/PR/916-108/index.xhtml;jsessionid=D09B339D444F6F36C368D93B8CF78BEB

You got it. I inherited a ton of tools from my father in law who was a machinist. This bevel edged blade was amongst them. I had no idea they were so much more expensive than a regular bladed edge but the tool is fantastic for transferring lines from table to model.

 

I put no finish on my models. Personal preference.

 

 

 

 

 

[druxey]

That is one square that you don't drop!

[bdgiantman2]

I am very much looking forward to how you make and grove those hawse timbers. Speedwell has been a pleasure to follow as was Winnie.

[JeffT]

3 hours ago, dvm27 said:

You got it. I inherited a ton of tools from my father in law who was a machinist. This bevel edged blade was amongst them. I had no idea they were so much more expensive than a regular bladed edge but the tool is fantastic for transferring lines from table to model.

 

I put no finish on my models. Personal preference.

 

 

 

 

 

You can get one from amazon for a little less.

[Chuck]

A quick test of the bow timbers.  I simplified them as I know how difficult they can be.  
 

Increased the air spaces in width and the width slightly on each bow timber.  I did this to reduce the number of timbers.  Much like the Pegasus model in the picture posted by Greg.  Note the comparison between Speedwell and Pegasus bow timbers.  Pegasus has fewer bow timbers and 3 air spaces.  That is what I wanted to replicate on my Speedwell for simplicity sake.
 

 

Because we are planking from the wales up this will have no effect on the overall look of the model.  But it will make this tricky area a little easier.

 

There is one less timber to worry about and I combined the little filler with the outer-most timber so it was one piece.  It will be covered up anyway.  This also makes life much easier.

 

No crazy jigs for these or shortcuts really.  In my opinion that would make the whole process more difficult.  All of the crazy jigs that I have seen on those Asian kits look over-engineered. And the finished results are less than satisfactory.  It actually went very quickly just being careful and deliberate with each timber.  You can see the timbers for the port side ready to go.
 

They are laser cut with etched reference lines on both sides.  
 

I will of course take tons of pictures and do a step by step when I do the other side.

 

[scrubbyj427]

Wow! Amazing results! That looks perfect. Well done Chuck.

It appears that you are fairing frames as you go?

[Chuck]

Yes every six or seven frames but there are times where it was smart not to do any progressive fairing.  For example…not until all the cant frames were done.  Same is true for these bow timbers.  I waited until all of them were finished and then faired them.  What you see above is about 95% done.

 

when all the framing is complete I will break out some battens and test the smooth run all over.  To remove any dips and small imperfections.

[Chuck]

Here is another quick angle with some Photoshop.  I added some reference to where the wales would be.  I needed to check some angles and this was the perfect tool for the job.   This is of course just an estimate to where they will be.  I just eye-balled the placement of the wales best I could in photoshop.  I wanted to see what the framing would eventually look like after planking.  How much would be exposed.

 

Also, Just a note to say it would be great to have a disc sander for the bow timbers,  but I know that many of you who will be building this do not have one.  So I have been working all of these parts on this project only by hand just like all of you will have to. It is quite possible to get fairly tight joints just using a sharp chisel and #11 blade along with some sanding sticks.   Its just a matter of going slow and being very careful.  

 

[CaptMorgan]

Wow -- awesome stuff Chuck.  I always look forward to your updates.  Your a very busy young man...  Can't wait to get my hands on one down the road.... 

[Chuck]

Thank you so much...yes its super busy right now.  But it still beats watching TV.

[Rustyj]

Outstanding work Chuck!

 

 

[Stuntflyer]

Looking quite nice! I can see that the fourth air space isn't needed at all.

[giampieroricci]

Outstanding work, Chuck!
I really like the shade of wood you are using.
What kind of wood is it?

[Chuck]

Thank You.  Its instrument grade Alaskan Yellow Cedar.  Some Yellow Cedar can be very grainy but if you hand pick the really clear stuff it can show quite beautifully.

 

Really nice boards have no grain at all showing.

 

Chuck

[Gus M]

This is out of my rango, but is awasome to see

[Chuck]

The Bow Timbers

 

These arent very difficult to make and build.  But yes...you do have to take your time and go through all of the steps with each bow frame.  They are laser cut with all kinds of reference lines on both sides of each frame.   There are also laser cut spacers that go between each bow timber.  They are 3/64" thick.   In fact the first piece we will add is right next to the upper apron.  It is 3/64" thick and the easiest part to add.  This is being used for one purpose only.  It is being added to make the upper apron wider before we add the actual bow timbers and spacers.  They are labelled P1 and S1....respectively for the port and starboard sides.  You do have to bevel the heel to fit tight against the cant frame.  But thats pretty simple to do with a sanding stick.  To position this piece properly on the side of the apron, Just make the forward edge flush with the shape of the upper apron.  See the arrow in the photo.

 

Below is the first actual bow timber (bollard timber) on the port side....P2

 

Lets start shaping it. 

 

Note all the reference lines.  There are more on the other side.

 

This shouldnt be scary at all for folks who havent done this.  Just carefully go through the steps one at a time.  This would be so easy if you had a disc sander etc.  But as I mentioned, I will be doing all shaping and sanding by hand.   I am just using a #11 blade and some sanding sticks and sandpaper.   Thats it.  I know that many of you

dont have a disc sander.  

Step 1...Concentrate on establishing the angle on the heel of the bow frame.   This angle is the same for every bow timber.  There is a laser etched line on one side for this purpose.  But to help see the correct bevel, I lightly sanded both sides to remove some char.    Then I drew a pencil line to better see the actual angle and what needs to be removed.  This is done on every Bow timber as step one.

 

There are countless ways to create this angle....sanding....cutting...disc sander...you name it.   But his was how I did it.  
 

I first used my #11 blade to slice most of the meat away.  I did this carefully only taking off a thin slice with each pass.  The blade actually slices through the cedar like butter.  Just get the heavy stuff off close to the reference line for now.

 

Then use a wide flat sanding stick to take it to the finish line.  Keep the stick flat and always touching the surface.  Sand slow and you wont round off the face as is typical if you quickly stroke back and forth.  Go slow and deliberate.   

 

If by chance you actually do round off that beveled face its OK...

 

You can take some medium grit sandpaper and bend it loosely.  Then once again sand slowly and deliberately.   But this time keep the folded sandpaper only in the center of the face as if you were trying to make it concave.  But in actuality you are just removing any rounded areas to get it back to a perfectly flat face.   This shouldnt be needed if you are careful with the sanding stick.   But yes a disc sander would take care of this in about 30 seconds.

 

But you can get a really tight joint doing it by hand…the old fashioned way.

 

Test the bow timber on the model....

 

How does that beveled angle sit against the cant frame?   Nice and tight?

 

Note the bevel line and how it lines up with the edge of the cant frame.   All of the bow timbers should all line up this way or at least be very close.

 

How do you know how high against the upper apron this should be placed?

 

There is a laser etched reference line on the back side that lines up with the top of the apron.  See below.  After this all of the remaining bow timbers and spacers will all be at the same height basically.  We will trim them all down to the nice shear line later after they are all placed on the model.

 

Ok that was step one.  Not so bad although I am trying to give you a ton of detail.

 

Now step two....

 

Adding the bevels (basically pre-fairing each bow timber inboard and out).  Once again my preference is to just use a sharp #11 blade.  Replace your blade the moment it gets dull.  I am just shaving from the edge to the etched reference line.  Go slow.   Only shave a little at a time.   Dont go all the way to the line yet.   Use a sanding stick for that.  But this goes pretty quickly.  What is most important is to shave with the grain.   Not against it....just like your 5 o'clock shadow. 

 

If you shave the wrong way it just wont work.   You will make a mess and break chunks off ruining the bow timber.  But if you are going in the right direction...it cuts like butter...really.

 

In fact here is a little tip.   You will have to reverse directions on each half of the bow timbers.  They are curved and the grain is different on each end.  You will know what I mean when you try this.  You will have a nice little pile of shavings.

 

Then clean it up with a sanding stick.

 

The outboard side looks like this.  Note the spacer ready to be glued onto the bow timber.  Do this before you glue it on the model.

 

And the inboard side.  All sliced with a #11 blade close to the bevel line...then cleaned up with a sanding stick.

 

Step 3.....actually thats about it.  I guess step 3 is just gluing the spacer onto the side of the bow timber.  A laser etched line is there which shows exactly where is should go.  Line up the outboard edges flush.

 

Then step 4....glue it on the model.  Dont forget to place this first one at the proper height.  Use that refernce line on the back side I mentioned earlier.

 

 

It is really not too bad at all...

 

Then just repeat this with the other bow timbers...but dont forget to use another loose spacer when you glue it in position.  See the pic below that shows the third bow timber just after gluing it.  You want the air spaces to be nice and even between these timbers.  So use another scrap piece of 3/64" thick wood along the lower end to help you with that.   Make sure you dont glue it in place.   You want to remove the spacer when you are done.

 

 

I have just two more to go.   I will do those tomorrow.  Sorry about the long post but this log is really my notes for writing the instructions later.  I dont want to forget anything.

 

 

 

 

 

[Diver]

1 hour ago, Chuck said:

The Bow Timbers

 

These arent very difficult to make and build.  But yes...you do have to take your time and go through all of the steps with each bow frame.  They are laser cut with all kinds of reference lines on both sides of each frame.   There are also laser cut spacers that go between each bow timber.  They are 3/64" thick.   In fact the first piece will we add is right next to the upper apron.  It is 3/64" thick and the easiest part to add.  This is being used for one purpose only.  It is used to make the upper apron wider before we add the actual bow timbers and spacers.  They are labelled P1 and S1....respectively for the port and starboard sides.  You do have to bevel the heel to fit tight against the cant frame.  But thats pretty simple to do with a sanding stick.  Just make the forward edge flush with the shape of the upper apron.  See the arrow in the photo.

 

Here is the first bow timber on the port side....P2

 

Note all the reference lines.  There are more on the other side.

 

This shouldnt be scary at all for folks who havent done this.  Just go through the steps one at a time carefully.  This would be so easy if you had a disc sander etc.  But as I mentioned, I will be doing all shaping and sanding by hand.   I am just using a #11 blade and some sanding sticks and sandpaper.   Thats it.

Step 1...Concentrate on establishing the angle on the heel of the bow frame.   This angle is the same for every bow timber.  There is a laser etched line on one side for this.   But to help see the correct bevel I lightly sanded both sides to remove some char.   Then I drew a pencil line to better see the actual angle and what needs to be removed.  This is done on every Bow timber as step one.

 

There are countless ways to create this angle....sanding....cutting...disc sander...you name it.   I first used my #11 blade to slice most of the meat away.  I did this carefully only taking off a thin slice with each pass.  The blade actually slices through the cedar like butter.  Just get the heavy stuff off close to the reference line for now.

 

Then use a wide flat sanding stick to take it to the finish line.  Keep the stick flat and always touching the surface.  Sand slow and you wont round off the face as is typical if you quickly stroke back and forth.  Go slow and deliberate.   

 

If by chance you actually do round off that beveled face its OK...

 

You can take some medium grit sandpaper and bend it loosely.  Then once again sand slowly and deliberately.   But this time keep the folded sandpaper only in the center of the face as if you were trying to make it concave.  But in actuality you are just remove any rounded areas to get it back to a perfectly flat face.   This shouldnt be needed if you are careful with the sanding stick.   But yes a disc sander would take care of this in about 30 seconds.

 

Test the bow timber on the model....

 

How does that beveled angle sit against the cant frame?   Nice and tight?

 

Note the bevel line and how it lines up with the edge of the cant frame.   They should all do this or at least be very close.

 

How do you know how high against the upper apron this should be placed?

 

There is a laser etched reference line on the back side that lines up with the top of the apron.  See below.  After this all of the remaining bow timbers and spacers will all be at the same height basically.  We will trim them all down to the nice shear line later after they are all placed on the model.

 

Ok that was step one.  Not so bad although I am trying to give you a ton of detail.

 

Now step two....

 

Adding the bevels (basically pre-fairing each bow timber inboard and out).  Once again my preference is to just use a sharp #11 blade.  Replace your blade the moment it gets dull.  I am just shaving from the edge to the etched reference line.  Go slow.   Only shave a little at a time.   Dont go all the way to the line yet.   Use a sanding stick for that.  But this goes pretty quickly.  What is most important is to shave with the grain.   Not against it....just like your 5 o'clock shadow. 

 

If you shave the wrong way it just wont work.   You will make a mess and break chunks off ruining the bow timber.  But if you are going in the right direction...it cuts like butter...really.

 

In fact here is a little tip.   You will have to reverse directions on each half of the bow timbers.  They are curved and the grain is different on each end.  You will know what I mean when you try this.  You will have a nice little pile of shavings.

 

Then clean it up with a sanding stick.

 

The outboard side looks like this.  Note the spacer ready to be glued onto the bow timber.  Do this before you glue it on the model.

 

And the inboard side.  All sliced with a #11 blade close to the bevel line...then cleaned up with a sanding stick.

 

Step 3.....actually thats about it.  I guess step 3 is just gluing the spacer onto the side of the bow timber.  A laser etched line is there which shows exactly where is should go.  Line up the outboard edges flush.

 

Then step 4....glue it on the model.  Dont forget to place this first one at the proper height.  Use that refernce line on the back side I mentioned earlier.

 

 

It is really not too bad at all...

 

Then just repeat this with the other bow timbers...but dont forget to use another loose spacer when you glue it in position.  See the pic below that shows the third bow timber just after gluing it.  You want the air spaces to be nice and even between these timbers.  So use another scrap piece of 3/64" thick wood along the lower end to help you with that.   Make sure you dont glue it in place.   You want to remove the spacer when you are done.

 

 

I have just two more to go.   I will do those tomorrow.  Sorry about the long post but this log is really my notes for writing the instructions later.  I dont want to forget anything.

 

 

 

 

 

Way above my skill level but enjoyable to watch and learn.

[JeffT]

That does help. It doesn't have to be complicated. I think a pretty stiff sanding stick probably would be best.

[Stuntflyer]

Diver, are you sure? Looking at something unfamiliar to you might seem unattainable. This is much easier to do than the traditional way in which it is often done. Chuck has made this very straight forward with etched lines and laser cut shapes to start off with. He has simplified the process for those who want to build a POF and thought they never could.

 

Mike

Edited March 5, 2023 by Stuntflyer

[dvm27]

Very meticulous instructions Chuck. Great tip about reversing the cut due to grain. Something every woodworker eventually learns.

 

I am frequently asked which power tool I use the most. Without a doubt it is the Byrnes disk sander. You can do those heels perfectly in ten seconds and creating bevels is a snap with just a little practice. I would encourage any builder who plans on making more than just a ship model or two to consider placing this on their holiday gift list.

[Diver]

20 hours ago, Diver said:

Way above my skill level but enjoyable to watch and learn.

Thanks Mike for the confidence builder.  I am going to finish the Syren Medway in the near future, and then I will attempt one of Chris Wattons Vanguard kits.  After that I may have the nerve to tackle a project like this.  I do know that Chuck provides excellent kits and instructions.

[Chuck]

To finish up the bow timbers I had two more to go.  The first of those was done exactly like the previous three.  But the last one is a bit different.  The filler that closes the gap is just a little bit different.

 

Step one is the same.   Shape the angle that will fit against the cant frame.  No biggie there.  There is a laser reference line for that just like the others.  But that is the only reference line laser etched.

 

Once shaped to fit against the cant frame,  test it on the model.  It should fir pretty good.   Then you need to take a sharp pencil and draw the next reference line yourself.  Just trace the shape of the cant frame edge onto to the filler as shown.  This will be your outboard hull reference.  Use that line and bevel just as you did in step two for the previous bow timbers.

 

 

It will look like this when you bevel and clean it up with a sanding stick.

 

You dont have to bevel the inboard edge.  We will need to trace that in pencil against the cant frame too.  But that is kind of tricky at this stage.  Once you take a look inside there you will understand.  There really isnt much to bevel inboard actually.   It is best to just leave the inboard side as is until after we remove all of the jigs and fair the inboard side later.  That will be done after planking.

 

But now you can go ahead and fair the outside bow timbers.  Fair them into the cant frames nicely.  Use a long batten to check how true and smooth the run of planks will be.  You dont want any dips.   Dont be afraid to really sand it good with coarse sandpaper first and then switch to a finer grit on your last pass.

 

You will notice that the bow timbers are too high and the tops should be trimmed down to match the sheer.   That can be done after fairing outboard.  Almost done fairing outboard below.  The tops of the bow timbers have been trimmed down as well.

 

How do you know where to trim down the head timbers?  Well you could measure up from your build board using the plans.  But I decided to take some considerable time to create a template.  Its quite an extensive template actually.   Basically its an expansion drawing to scale that shows every last detail of the outboard hull fittings.   

 

This includes the run of the planks at the bow and all ports....swivel stocks...scuppers and fixed blocks and channels with deadeyes....etc.

 

The bottom of this helpful template represents the top edge of the upper wales.  This is in fact how we will transfer the correct lines for the wales later.   But you can also use it to check the positions of all ports and also trim down the bow timbers to the sheer.  Just make sure you put it on both sides of the hull and have them even.

 

This template lines up at the bow based on the cheeks.  You can see on the plans how the upper cheek sits right on top of the upper wales and then transitions onto the stem.  You want to line up the cheek on the template where it will transition onto the stem.  This is important because you want to have everything line up when we work on the hawse holes and bolsters and headrails.

 

It will make locating everything quite easy I think.  I dont believe any other kit or even monograph has such a template and expansion drawing like this.  I thought I would try something new.

 

Time to start the aft cant frames...yippie!!!

 

Here is a quick look at the template.  When flat the expansion clearly shows the gentle "S" curve at the bow for planking run. I folks have a hard time getting this right so this should be a life-saver.  In fact, with all the planks at the bow now shown with their shape and taper this leaves no guesswork at all.  When the time comes we will transfer those planking lines to the frames.  No tick strips needed.   Lining off will be much easier.

 

 

 

[westwood]

You're going brilliantly Chuck.
And that template will really help a lot.

[AnobiumPunctatum]

Congrats for reaching this milestone during your design and build proces. I like the innovative ideas you share with us and your hull is looking amazing.