Blackburn Buccaneer S.2C by CDW & AJohnson - FINISHED - Airfix - 1:48

[AJohnson]

The fit doesn’t look too bad generally Craig, but the intakes gaps reminiscent of the 1990’s mould. Great job in filling and cleaning up, good tip on sanding ’wet’. 

[CDW]

23 minutes ago, AJohnson said:

The fit doesn’t look too bad generally Craig, but the intakes gaps reminiscent of the 1990’s mould. Great job in filling and cleaning up, good tip on sanding ’wet’. 

Airfix really stepped up their game with this iteration of the Buccaneer. The first one in the 90's was a bit of a beast to do, but it turned out very nice when it was all said and done. This new mold is WAY better than that one so I have high hopes for it. I still prefer the S.2B version, though, in Gulf War colors/markings. I also like to use Mr Surfacer 1000 as my primer coat for the finish. I'll reduce it around/about 6 parts leveling thinner to 4 parts paint, and lay it down in thin coats so as not to hide fine surface detail while still leveling it all up.

By the way, this reminds me this is a BIG airplane. It will take up a lot of shelf space.

[CDW]

Trying to decide whether to pose the speed brake opened or closed. Photos of it on the tarmac shows it both ways.

[realworkingsailor]

8 hours ago, CDW said:

Trying to decide whether to pose the speed brake opened or closed. Photos of it on the tarmac shows it both ways.

 

Is there any way you could make it moveable? Or does the assembly preclude that possibility?

 

Andy

[CDW]

1 hour ago, realworkingsailor said:

Is there any way you could make it moveable? Or does the assembly preclude that possibility?

 

Andy

Not with the kit provided parts but I’m sure it could be done with the right reference material and time/effort. It’s a fairly complex assembly. Will probably pose mine closed.

 

PS: After looking some more at photos of it, the open position offers a lot of visual effect not seen in a closed position, so I may do it open. So much more to see that way.

Edited March 28, 2023 by CDW

[AJohnson]

30 minutes ago, CDW said:

Not with the kit provided parts but I’m sure it could be done with the right reference material and time/effort. It’s a fairly complex assembly. Will probably pose mine closed.

 

PS: After looking some more at photos of it, the open position offers a lot of visual effect not seen in a closed position, so I may do it open. So much more to see that way.

My 1990's gulf war one is open, so I will do mine closed this time.

Edited March 28, 2023 by AJohnson

[CDW]

What’s going on here?

Just below the horizontal stabilizers and attached to the vertical stab are a set of “fins” that protrude to each side. These would appear to interfere with the operation of the elevators moving in a downward motion. 

[AJohnson]

29 minutes ago, CDW said:

What’s going on here?

Just below the horizontal stabilizers and attached to the vertical stab are a set of “fins” that protrude to each side. These would appear to interfere with the operation of the elevators moving in a downward motion. 

Yeah I think that is correct, I don’t understand the mechanism or why it was used but the whole elevator/tail plane tilted on top of the tail unit and also the traditional elevators moved up independently. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable will know why?  Sure there would be a reason, maybe to do with the aircraft being design to go near supersonic at low altitude, a design feature to avoid “flutter” is it on the elevators?

Edited March 29, 2023 by AJohnson

[CDW]

35 minutes ago, AJohnson said:

Yeah I think that is correct, I don’t understand the mechanism or why it was used but the whole elevator/tail plane tilted on top of the tail unit and also the traditional elevators moved up independently. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable will know why?  Sure there would be a reason, maybe to do with the aircraft being design to go near supersonic at low altitude, a design feature to avoid “flutter” is it on the elevators?

Thanks for that photo and information Arthur. That's a different feature than anything else I have seen before now. It looks like you can see the outline of where the elevators rest upon those "fins" in the photo. Very interesting.

[Egilman]

3 hours ago, AJohnson said:

Yeah I think that is correct, I don’t understand the mechanism or why it was used but the whole elevator/tail plane tilted on top of the tail unit and also the traditional elevators moved up independently. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable will know why?  Sure there would be a reason, maybe to do with the aircraft being design to go near supersonic at low altitude, a design feature to avoid “flutter” is it on the elevators?

 

2 hours ago, CDW said:

That's a different feature than anything else I have seen before now. It looks like you can see the outline of where the elevators rest upon those "fins" in the photo.

It's a live tail....

 

The whole horizontal stabilizer turns up and down....  And yes, it is to effect better control and eliminate leading edge compressibility issues at high speeds...  The trailing edges are a throwback to when the aircraft was first designed with conventional elevators... (much like the F-86 was)

On the F-86, the former elevators became the new trim tabs.... I suspect much the same happened here, probably saved them several millions of development pounds/dollars....

[Canute]

So the tail-plane is a stabilator, like on the F-4 and F101. Better control at high Mach. And the old "elevators" were trim tabs. Very interesting. In Arthur's photo, you can see the pathway on the vertical tail with the indentation for the tail-plane going nose down.

[mtaylor]

If I'm getting this right, it's like the early days of flight where the whole horizontal stabilizer moved before they went to elevators?  Same for the vertical before going to a rudder.  Maybe the old saying is right.. "there is nothing new under the sun"?   

[CDW]

Yep. After hearing from you guys and upon closer examination, I can see it now. The red arrow points to the pivot point of the "stabilator", the yellow arrows to the limits of travel. Very interesting design. I would have not figured it out without your help. Thanks!

 

[Old Collingwood]

Indeed  Craig  - it should be a  smooth  cone  without the  ledge  - 

 

OC.

[Egilman]

Hey Brothers, I've been doing some research into this tailplane issue....

 

Yes the ledge is there, it was there on all Blackburn Bucs....

 

The Horizontal stabilizer is a live surface, fully moveable, It never had an elevator, and the round fairings moved with the livetail... Those surfaces that look like elevators are flaps, they are designed to provide uplift to the nose of the aircraft at low speed as the aircraft at low speed tended to pitch down... The flaps were automatic and moved as aerodynamics dictated.. The flying tail also had boundary control as well as hot air deicing...

There was no need for downward deflection flaps on the aft edge of the tailplane so they were designed to remain neutral when not active and the ledge in the aft fairing made it mechanically sure to never go into a pitch down situation....

 

Not my opinion brothers... Will provide references if desired....

 

 

 

[AJohnson]

10 hours ago, Old Collingwood said:

Indeed  Craig  - it should be a  smooth  cone  without the  ledge  - 

 

OC.

 

 

Both those pictures show the ledge the "flaps" rested on, Egilman got this covered.  👍

 

Btw. did you spot the "Dash-cam" on the top of the tail in the second picture, this must be one of the ground taxiable Buccaneers?

 

Looking at the mould of the Airfix kit it looks like it might benefit from a bit of thinning above the front tilt limit of the tail plane, if I could be bothered, the photos seem to show it is thinner?

Edited March 30, 2023 by AJohnson

[Canute]

I was wondering what the gizmo on the stab was. Interesting use for that flying surface.

 

The boundary control and deicing came off the engine compressor; the F-4 used a similar system for the leading and trailing flaps on the wings. When the slats were applied, they left the  tubing in the leading edge, so the jet gained about 1500 pounds of dead weight.

[Danstream]

16 hours ago, mtaylor said:

If I'm getting this right, it's like the early days of flight where the whole horizontal stabilizer moved before they went to elevators?  Same for the vertical before going to a rudder.  Maybe the old saying is right.. "there is nothing new under the sun"?

Yes, but for totally different reasons. In modern jets, the whole moving surface is because of the physics of transonic/supersonic flight.

Cheers,

Dan

[Egilman]

3 hours ago, Danstream said:

the whole moving surface is because of the physics of transonic/supersonic flight.

Actually, it is the branch of science called Fluid Dynamics, something the Wright Brothers were the first to actually understand applies to gases/vapors under pressure as well as liquids....

 

Live Tails, (or as they are commonly called today Stabilators) are the result of a long period of trial and error relearning something the Brothers knew instinctively from observations of a simple wing profile in a wind tunnel.

[CDW]

@AJohnson these photos are for a heads up and as well to ask you for a favor.

In the bottom of each photo the visible hinge attachment point has an ever so slight sink mark on both starboard and port wings. Wish I had seen these before I attached the wings as filling and sanding them now is more difficult with wings attached. Look carefully at yours to see if they need work. Secondly, at the top of each photo is an attachment point that appears to be missing (small ones). I’m thinking I may have inadvertently cut these off thing they were sprue gates. Would you kindly look at your wings and tell me if I did what I think I did? I can fix it with a little work but it’s not clear to me from the instructions I did what I think I did. As it is, it just doesn’t look right to me.

[Canute]

The Wrights also turned by warping the wing. Ailerons didn't come about until 10 years later. NASA modified an F-111 to test the concept, but I don't think it got very far. The Wrights were the first systems engineers, combining many disciplines to build their Flyers.

[CDW]

@AJohnson if you look at steps 61 and 62, parts H31 and H32 are the pieces with a sink mark in mine. Above it are steps 59 and 60 which indicate cutting off the protrusions (which I did) but that’s not what created the open slot seen in the prior photos.

[Egilman]

1 hour ago, Canute said:

Ailerons didn't come about until 10 years later.

The first patent on the aileron control system was granted to the British scientist and metaphysicist Matthew Piers Watt Boulton in 1868. He introduced the concept of three axis control in his 1864 paper "On Aërial Locomotion". He was the first to conceive an aileron flight control system... 39 years before the Wright Brothers used wing warping.... (the brothers had a copy of his paper in their library covering the engineering history and theories of heavier than air flight, they knew all about it)

 

Quote

The Wrights were the first systems engineers, combining many disciplines to build their Flyers.

 

Yep, they took the wing curvature pressure table from Lilienthal, (and corrected it) The wire braced Pratt Truss design from Chanute, (and modified it) The wing control method from Boulton, (combined with their own inspiration to make it work mechanically) Then built upon those contributions with their own experiments narrowing down the engineering and applying their inspirations from said experiments in making what they understood actually work...

 

So yes they were the first systems integrators as well as being scientists, a very unique combination of engineering and creative thought.... Not bad for a couple of bicycle mechanics...

Edited March 31, 2023 by Egilman

[CDW]

Take a look at this video at/around the 23:08 mark. Here you will see the wingfold pieces being glued into the inboard side of the wings. Those open slots I'm talking about are there for the wingfold mechanism. IMO this kit was designed for the wings to be posed in the folded position where an opening would be appropriate. Building the wings in an extended position is offered as an option but it's not as well refined. If you look at the opening page of this video, you can see the model with wings extended, and there is that hole just as clear as can be seen, but that doesn't seem right to me. Look just forward of the yellow stripe at the aileron/flap hinge. 

 

 

Edited March 31, 2023 by CDW

[AJohnson]

6 hours ago, CDW said:

@AJohnson if you look at steps 61 and 62, parts H31 and H32 are the pieces with a sink mark in mine. Above it are steps 59 and 60 which indicate cutting off the protrusions (which I did) but that’s not what created the open slot seen in the prior photos.

 

Hi,

 

Yes I have the same issue and it doesn't seem right to me either.  Thanks for the heads-up, I think that little rectangle needs filling - although in-flight Buccs do show wear of paintwork around the hinge areas there are no holes!

[CDW]

Thanks for the photos Arthur. That clears it up for me.

[CDW]

1.5mm Evergreen strip styrene is pretty much a perfect fit for filling those wing fold “holes”.

[CDW]

Not too many more small bits and pieces to add before it will be ready for some primer. Will spot check a few places with primer paint first before priming the whole model. The speed brake/clamshell assembly rests dry-fitted as I think it will be better to mask and paint it as a separate unit then add it permanently after all the paint work is done. The flaps sit at 40 degrees while the ailerons sit at 30 degrees as per plan.

What do you know about the engine setup? There are no afterburner cans as are seen on many contemporary aircraft. No turkey feathers.

Did I mention that this is a very large plane? Even in 1:48 scale it's large. 🙂

[shipman]

What a sexy looking aeroplane!

Edited April 1, 2023 by shipman
word missing

[CDW]

7 hours ago, shipman said:

What a sexy looking aeroplane!

I must admit I have been admiring the curves of her beautiful body but wait until she's got legs. 😮 She will be irresistible.