HMS Indefatigable 1794 by Blue Ensign - FINISHED - Vanguard Models - 1:64 scale

[aliluke]

Yep Maurice, I have to get you down to New Zealand to do my first planking too and build me a building board while you are here!

 

Wonderful work on both as usual and your innovations are very clever.

 

Cheers,

Alistair

[JoeMacD]

On 4/10/2023 at 9:19 AM, Blue Ensign said:

Post Nineteen

Hull planking continues

I can now work out the planking runs.

If my arithmetic is right, on paper at least I will need (20) strakes of 6mm stuff and (I) of 5mm.

At the bow the planks will need to taper to 3mm.

0718

I am using the MSW download planking fan which has the added advantage of being the correct 6mm spacing at the maximum width of the base of the fan.

The provided lime strip is of a nice quality but there are variations in widths. A random sample indicates a range between 5.3 – 6.0mm and thickness 0f 1.42 - 1.58mm. These small variations do have a cumulative effect and create ridges and hollows. This is not a big issue and there is plenty of meat to sand out the irregularities.

0706

On first layer planking I use tick strips to mark the central and every other bulkhead with the planking lines.

Variations in plank widths will also impact on the marked plank runs and there will inevitably be error creep as the strakes are applied.

0707

At this point five more strakes have been added, together with another strake adjacent to the Garboard.

0713

On this build I didn’t bother to thin down the false keel in the area around the bearding line to accommodate the second planking. I thought I would follow Jim’s example and finish the first planking short, and fay it to suit the second planking against the stern post.

0714

0716

0709

Edge bending is now required on all bow strakes.

0720

0721

Not a pretty sight in its raw state, but hopefully she will emerge as a swan at some point.

0726

I will now re-mark the tick strip results in the remaining space and apply another five strakes.

 

B.E.

10/04/2023

 

 

The Indy is coming out beautifully. As a newb can you direct me to info on  this planking fan, and how to correctly understand and use it! I’ve seen it elsewhere and I’m very curious to see and learn if it will help me to correctly plank my hulls!

Thank you! 

[Kevin]

21 minutes ago, JoeMacD said:

The Indy is coming out beautifully. As a newb can you direct me to info on  this planking fan, and how to correctly understand and use it! I’ve seen it elsewhere and I’m very curious to see and learn if it will help me to correctly plank my hulls!

Thank you! 

SIMPLE HULL PLANKING TECHNIQUES FOR BEGINNERS (modelshipworldforum.com)

[Blue Ensign]

Hello Joe, thanks for looking in on my build.

Kevin has provided a link to a planking guide, which is a good place to start.

In addition, if you go into the Articles database at the top of the ribbon you will find a copy of the planking fan contained within Chuck Passaro’s article as below, and an excellent guide how to use it.

Lining Off your hull for planking (thenrg.org)

Scroll down to the Framing and planking section, there is a wealth of advice to be had.

Regards,

 

B.E.

Edited April 20, 2023 by Blue Ensign

[Blue Ensign]

15 hours ago, James H said:

Damn, I should let you do my first planking. I don't get within 10% of being that neat!

That thought fills me with horror, the amount of planking you get thro' and the excellent results you achieve with the proto builds, I just couldn't live with the pace of it.

Chris has got the right man.

 

@ Alistair -  send me the air fare, I'll be there .😉

 

B.E.

 

 

[Hubac's Historian]

Brilliant first planking run

[glbarlow]

15 hours ago, Blue Ensign said:

Chuck Passaro’s article as below, and an excellent guide how to use it.

Lining Off your hull for planking (thenrg.org)

Scroll down to the Framing and planking section, there is a wealth of advice to be had.

This is the best way to go, not the easiest or the fastest, but the best. 

[rlwhitt]

2 hours ago, glbarlow said:

This is the best way to go, not the easiest or the fastest, but the best. 

I can see the wisdom of this method, using spiling.  However I’ve seen some instruction hereabouts, from even Chuck himself, showing his edge bending method.  It strikes me as odd to see him doing it both ways at different times.  Is it ship dependent or something?

[JoeMacD]

Thank you, I also can see the wisdom of this method. I guess putting it into practice would help me understand it even more! Once I start my bigger projects I will definitely put the process into effect! 
I have already made a bench copy of both procedures.

https://modelshipworldforum.com/resources/Framing_and_Planking/plankingprojectbeginners.pdf?fbclid=IwAR0UpqAuQvY32w_KiNdvUC6QyVbVaTa0eCfGbfVsNCOxvZ6NOO1KYvwBvv8   And,

https://thenrg.org/resources/Documents/articles/LiningOffYourHullPlankingTutorialAndFan.pdf.

once again thank you 🙏😊😊

[allanyed]

On 4/19/2023 at 6:26 AM, Blue Ensign said:

I'm not prepared to risk it Jason, it also has implications for the keel.

Hi B.E.

You are 100% correct about the taper of the stem, apron and knee of the head moving vertically as well as horizontally and it can be tricky.   Even the sided dimension of the keel tapers 3 inches on a 64 from midships to the sternpost and from midships to the stem so this would have to be accounted for as well.  Same goes for the sternpost which tapers from 19.5" at the top to 14" at the keel.   As you say, sometimes it may be better to forget meddling.  

Allan

[glbarlow]

8 hours ago, rlwhitt said:

doing it both ways at different times.  Is it ship dependent or something?

It isn’t a ‘both ways’ situation. It’s two parts of one process. First the lining, then taper, then edge bending. Check my Cheerful and Winchelsea or a number of other Winchelsea logs including Chuck’s on how it all ties together. I believe the videos also explain this. 

 

We should move any further discussion off BE’s build log. This is his space.

Edited April 21, 2023 by glbarlow

[Blue Ensign]

A few days away for my shipyard assistant to enjoy.

2984

Refreshed, and back at the bench. 

 

Post Twenty-five

 

Stern and Quarter Galleries

I now return to Section 165.

 

Here Chris has ticked all my boxes, realistically constructed Quarter galleries, and correctly levelled stern bench, incorporating the rudder housing with a nice compass design on the top.

Right up my Strasse and saving me a shed load of work.

 

Even so, getting the stern gallery, Upper and lower counters, and Quarter galleries all correctly aligned is one of the most important and tricky areas of a build.

 

 In gathering together the parts for the next steps, the following is noted for clarification.

Qtr Galleries.

Section 174 indicates use of parts #71/72, it should read 71/73. These represent the top of the Qtr gallery (#73) and one of two layers of part #71 which form the seat of ease.

Parts#72 are the bottom segments of the Qtr Gallery that slots into the hull.

888

Test fitting the Qtr Galleries.

0844

Test fitting the Poop deck.

The test deck beams and deck pattern slipped seamlessly into place.

0893

There will ultimately be a lot less of Poop deck planking on my version.

 

The next stage is that tricky business of getting the stern gallery, and upper and lower counters aligned.

0891

I used a couple of 2mm pear strips to represent the capping rails which the top of the stern gallery should meet when fitted.

0900

I found I did need to shape the lower edge of the Upper counter to fully meet the upper edge of the Lower counter. I used the lower counter as a template to match the curves.

0897

The lower counter was soaked and formed around a tin before fitting.

0904

I was in no hurry to finish this section, these parts were pinned and re-pinned several times before I was satisfied that the stern area looked good from every angle.

0903

The planking line was then trimmed to suit.

On with the show.

 

B.E.

29/04/2023

 

 

 

 

 

[Blue Ensign]

Post Twenty-six

Fitting the outer Hull Patterns completes the cladding of the qtr deck bulwarks.

0906

Note.

Section #208 indicates parts #246/250 but should be read as #252/253. These are the outer patterns.

Parts #246/250 are the first layer outer patterns fitted earlier in section 155.

0917

0915

0916

I’m still fiddling around with the hull spotting noticed areas in the planking that would still benefit from a little extra fettlin’. A few low areas were re-filled and sanded smooth.

The better I get the hull at this stage, the better the second planking should be.

0920

The final job in this section is to add the lower counter outer pattern.

0919

This stage represents only two months’ work but feels much longer.

 

I now need to work out a strategy for the second planking.

 

B.E.

30/04/2023

 

[Oldsalt1950]

Looking really sharp. Take your time on that 2nd planking strategy. no sense rushing.

 

Jim

[Kevin]

that looks very nice indeedd

 

[Blue Ensign]

Thank you Jim and Kevin, much appreciated.👍

 

 

Post Twenty-seven

 

The plan.

Before I proceed to the planking, I need to consider the colour scheme of Indefatigable, and how I will represent it using a minimum of paint.

I am not concerned here with the standard colour schemes of the late Napoleonic era British warship as represented by the Indefatigable kit, altho’ I’m not a fan of the bright yellow paint job on the prototype model, but that’s down to personal preference.

I will be using a combination of Pear and Boxwood for the hull planking, and I hope to display the natural beauty of these expensive woods rather than cover them with paint.

My idea is to use Boxwood down to the wale which will represent the ‘yellow.’ The application of w-o-p will darken and enrich the Box colour in this area.

On the kit the ‘ochre’ stripe authentically follows the deck lines which means it overlaps the wale, particularly at the stern where the ports cut into the wale.

Below the wale I will use Pear for the lower hull, the kit provided pear is too good to waste, but it will be supplemented with wider strips for Garboard use, and other spiling requirements.

The topside Pearwood panels will be painted black, but I may leave the rails and mouldings natural.

 

0922

This rough schematic shows the approach I will be taking. The main departure from the kit  suggested scheme is that the wales are painted without regard to the deck levels, and the  woodwork below the wales will be left natural.

The wale itself will be painted black or a variant thereof.

 

I have yet to decide whether to apply either Top and butt or Anchor stock planking to the wale. I did on Pegasus, and Chris kindly provided it on Sphinx.

 

I am undecided regarding coppering, a lot of extra work, but I quite like the effect. I have thoughts of partly coppering her, to demonstrate the use.

My preference is for that ‘old penny’ look and like the idea of aging the copper using the method pioneered by Alistair (Aliluke) on his HMS Fly build.

 

Of course, a build is dynamic and subject to change as things progress, but it’s good to have a plan in mind at the start.

 

B.E.

01/05/2023

 

[aliluke]

Hi B.E.

I'd be honoured if you used my copper aging method! I won't offer to come around and help though - it is a technique best done in private...😏

 

Cheers

A

[Blue Ensign]

Post Twenty-eight

Second planking begins

I start by taking the trouble to sort and match the Box planking strips I obtained from Hobbymill eu.

They are well colour matched and consistent in dimensions.

So, time to apply the first Box plank.

0925

The blurb indicates fitting the first plank directly underneath the outer pear bulwarks; seems simple enough, but when it comes to the bow pattern there is an inconvenient gap between plank and pear bulwark of around 2 -3mm.

0938

The second plank fitted without issue; I used ca to start at the bow but followed by using pva for the remainder.  It is possible to clamp these two strakes.

Both strakes were fitted without tapering.

The manual suggests the strake that represents the top level of the Wale (in fact the Black Strake) is next fitted.

0924

The line is taken from Plan six and marked on the hull below the gunport centres. (above the ports in the case of the aftermost two) It is then a matter of running the plank along the hull.

I pinned the plank to the hull, and applied heat to form the shape. Pins are not an issue with this plank as it will be covered by a further wale plank.

 

 I opted to plank the topsides down to it, and then glue it into place. My preference is to part clear the ports as I go along.

Fixing the planks between wale and topsides is not quite as straight forward as it may seem, if the intention is not to cover it all in paint. In that case the paint will hide a multitude of sins.

 

On many kits the wale line is marked after the second planking has been applied, and I suppose this could still be done. It is just a matter of marking the dots on the second planking rather than the first. This would I think simplify the topsides planking.

0937

The wale sweeps up at the stern and bow, more so at the stern, and has a slight concave curve around midships.

0934

This means the planking between the gunports and down to the wale will have to be made to fit, requiring tapering at both bow and stern.

Starting with the stern I tick stripped each gunport to determine the taper. The hull mid-section is broadly full width with tapering stating around the second gunport from the bow, and fourth from the stern.

0928

0940

Not an entirely authentic method of planking the Topsides, but the taper at the bow will be masked by the hawse bolsters and at the stern by the Qtr gallery lower finishings, so little to draw the eye.

 

I am using ca gel exclusively now, but take the precaution of having a container of acetone and cotton buds handy to remove any ca spillage.

0933

0926

0930

0941

After five days the topsides planking is completed on the Starboard side. A preliminary sanding has been applied, but the gunports remain unfinished at this point.

Onwards…

 

B.E.

05/05/2023.

 

[Blue Ensign]

Thanks for the 'likes' and continuing interest Guys.

Post Twenty-nine

Planking continues.

After a couple of fine weather days and a Bank Holiday  weekend enjoying the Coronation, I returned to finishing the Topside planking on the Port side.

0942

0944

0945

0947

0948

0951

0949

This marks the limit of the Boxwood hull planking, from hereon I will be using Pear.

 

Before I can get to the planking there is the wonderful world of tick strips and bandings to set up, and butt shift patterns to consider.

 

B.E.

10/05/2023

 

[Blue Ensign]

Post Thirty

A conundrum

I have spent the afternoon sorting and checking my planking strip.

(102) 900mm lengths of 5x1mm Pear strip is supplied for the hull planking.

There is quite a colour variation which may be split into three shades, Dark, light, and medium.

0956

 In my kit (37) are Dark, (24) are light, and (25) are Medium.

0955

The shorter lowest selection in the above photos is Light pear from hobbymill.eu and from previous experience the colour is consistent.

0957

There is also a fourth category (16) strips, with vertical graining, that I prefer not to use.

 

Mixed colour shades applied either randomly, or by design, in the planking strakes is something that doesn’t appeal to my eye, but if the intention is to copper and paint the hull then this is of little relevance.

 

For me it means that there is insufficient strip to complete the hull without distinct colour variation along the strakes.

As I hope to leave the hull with a natural wood finish this is a little disappointing, but I infer no criticism of the kit.

 

My thoughts are turning to buying a new supply of timber from hobbymill.eu, an indulgence maybe, but this is a project that has already  incurred a not inconsiderable cost, and I want to make it as good as I can.

 

I was quite happy to have a Pear lower hull, but the situation now provides the option of replacing pear with Boxwood, and also including wider strips for spiling.

There is only a small difference in cost between Pear and Box.

 

One of the general downsides of kit timber is the lack of wider strips for hull planking, which is really is a bonus in planking. Fortunately, wider stuff is now more readily available from specialist sources.

 

Using Pear I would have a contrast below the wale and a match to the stem, sternpost, and keel.

With Box these elements would provide a contrast to the main hull planking, and Box is my favourite modelling timber.

08070

Nevertheless, I have decided to opt for Pear as demonstrated on my Sphinx build, above.

I quite fancy a slightly darker lower hull, and if my planking standard falls below what I hope, then the hull will be coppered anyway.

 

I now have a few weeks wait for the new timber to arrive, but meanwhile I can fettle those gunports, and mark up the hull for the planking runs.

 

B.E.

11/05/2023

 

[Rustyj]

Hi B.E. 

 

Another thing I found out using pear is that to the eye pieces looked similar when untreated. But when a finish such as wipe on poly, like I used, the planks still took on a different appearance. If I were to do it again and were looking for a uniform look I would apply one light coat of finish then compare planks prior to planking.

[Blue Ensign]

Thanks for the tip Rusty, I’ll give it a go.👍

 

B.E.

[Blue Ensign]

Post Thirty-one

Prepping the hull.

Not a lot of progress made since my last update, but working in the garden, and a week in the Wye Valley have intervened.

 

The good news is that my hull planking timber has arrived, quicker than I thought. Ordered on 12th May, dispatched on 22 May, received on 25th May.

Excellent service, thank you Vahur.

0968

The colour is consistent throughout the different sizes, and random checks on the timber strips indicate consistent width and thickness.

0971

Pending delivery, the bulkhead lines have been re-drawn which will be used to work out the strake runs.

0972

I have been doing preliminary work on lining off into three sections, but for now I have added two of the three planks below the Black strake, over which the wale timbers will be fixed.

These I have tapered by 1mm at the bow.

These top two strakes are of Box but the lower one will be Pear to avoid any awkward mismatched timbers showing above or below the wale.

0970

I have also been working on clearing the gunports, and to this end bespoke sanding sticks, scalpel, and template jig are used.

This is slow work and not a job I enjoy.

0966

Don’t get much change out £50 when consumables are replenished, I avoid thinking about how much I have spent on this project overall to date. 🙄

 

B.E.

25/05/2023

 

[Blue Ensign]

Post Thirty two.

The thing about wales.

 

0978

The lower strake (in Pear) of three, over which the kit Wales would be fitted has now been glued into place. It was possible to clamp this strake, so pva was mostly used.

0984

This too has been tapered by 1mm at the bow and left full size at the stern.

0991

The stern piece requires a sharp short bend with twist to conform to the transom.

 

Wales have been on my mind for a while now, and a decision has to be made.

 

On the kit the black strake is represented by a 4x1mm strip which is used to form the line of the wale. This fits directly over the previously fitted ‘marker’ strake.

Below this (3) strakes of 5x1 strip make up the wale. This equates to a wale depth of 3’ 1¾”

 

0977

The Adm. plan of Indy shows a wale depth of 27mm at midships. If this is at 1:48 scale, the equivalent @ 1:64 scale gives a 4’ 3” depth of wale.

0975

It could possibly be that the Adm. plan upper wale line includes the Black strake, the relationship between the line on the plan with the aftermost three ports compares well with the kit plan drawing.

The rub is that as far as I know the Black strake was not part of the actual wale but was a slightly thicker first plank fitted above the wale.

 

The use of straight strips in the kit is a simplification; the wales on this size of ship would have been made up using hook and butt, or at least top and butt, or anchor stock planking.

 

Chris has his practical reasons for simplifying the arrangement for kit purposes, but even so it would have been nice if only on the plan, the proper arrangement had been shown.

 

I have no direct reference to the wales on Ardent class ships but Goodwin’s The Construction and Fitting of the English Man of War 1650 – 1850 gives the proportions of the planking strakes, for the different patterns used.

The wale would consist of two strakes of two Top/hook and butt planks, locked together.

 

On a hull as large as Indy I think it deserves a more authentic looking wale but I acknowledge that in practice once the wale is blackened the effect is less evident to the casual eye.

Nevertheless, I still fancy having a go.

 

The Plan

I have decided to use Top and butt only, hook and butt is an added complication, and my aim is to give a visual representation of the different pattern of the wales on these ships.

 

The overall length of the wale is 826mm, which will require around 28 top and butts planks each side.

I shall be using 8mm as the depth of two planks matched together, which gives an overall depth of the wale of 16mm  around 3’ 4”. This is deeper that the kit wale by 1mm, but is still slightly less that the depth given by Goodwin for a thirty-eight gun frigate of 3’ 6”

 

The planks will be of 120mm in length.

The touch 30mm in from the end. (¼ of plank length)

 The touch depth is 2/3 the depth of the strake (8mm) = 5.33mm.

The butts are ½ the depth of the touch =2.66mm.

I will be using 6mm strip to form the planks.

0980

I made a rough scheme drawing to give me an impression of the look and proportions of the wale.

0981

I now need to see how I can produce a test plank that can be replicated in a jig of sorts.

To make the measurements easier I will try a touch of 5.5mm and a butt of 2.5mm, easier to see.

 

B.E.

26/05/2023

 

 

 

[Beef Wellington]

Nice plan!  Do you know if Indy retained the upper wale from when she was a 64 when she was razeed?

[Blue Ensign]

I don’t really know Jason, I’ve been having trouble working out the Main wale details relative to the kit plan, Adm plan, and given dimensions.

 On a two decker the Upper wale was used to secure the chain plates for the Fore and Main shrouds, on Indy these are now attached to the Main Wale, as is the norm for single deckers.

On the Indy kit plan there is a 1x4mm strip that looks like a channel wale to secure the Mizen chains, but I’ve not studied the kit that far ahead.

 Cheers,

 

B.E.

[Blue Ensign]

Post Thirty-three

 

Gundeck ports.

It has never been one of my favourite jobs - finishing off gunports, it’s so easy to get them out of shape, but I didn’t think the set-up on Indy would give me any trouble.

Chris has designed the hull with the ports framed, and the finished port openings and frame dimensions on the plans match.

The ports are rectangular on the gun deck and the kit plans match the Adm. plans for scale.

I wasn’t expecting to do more than square the outer planking to the port framing, a little light sanding, and job done.

 

There is a little more involved than that.

0992

I initially made a pattern jig to regularise the height of the ports followed by a further template port, cut from the plans full size.

0997

The port width exceeds the frame space, by around 1mm so careful sanding is required to obtain the width without losing the  shape.

0999

For this I used a square stock sanding stick with paper on two sides only. I am using 320 aluminium oxide for the purpose.

It is then a case of sand and check, sand and check, a good few hours’ work sees one side of ports completed, but not the inboard side.

0996

0995

A state of inertia can be induced by staring at the ports trying to spot variations along the hull, but I am fairly satisfied with the progress.

The kit includes port stops (linings) for those ports with lids, but I am pondering whether to add them to the remainder.

I do think ports look more stylish with stops, and there are contemporary models without lids that have stops in place.

Indy would no doubt have had stops originally as her gun deck was originally the lower gundeck of a Sixty-four.

1000

Onto the Starboard side.

 

B.E.

29/05/2023

 

[Blue Ensign]

Post Thirty-four

 

Topside work continues.

Having eventually squared (or rectangled) the gunports, I turn my attention to lining the ports.

 

Notwithstanding that there has been a deal of discussion on the forum as to how these were formed and where deployed, Chris has provided the makings for the linings or stops, pre-shaped for the angles involved.

Only the foremost and aftermost three ports are catered for but the pieces do require fettling to fit.

 

Fiddly little beggars to fit but perhaps an easier option than using the outer planking to form the rebate.

I did find the depth of the parts was a little narrow to meet the inboard edge of the port, whether this is a design simplification I don’t know, but the usual practice was that the stops abutted the inboard framing and were then boarded over with the quick works and spirketting to the edge of the port.

 

The frets provide useful basic patterns for these parts, to replicate linings, and I will keep the frets as a template for future use.

1001

The thin 0.6mm board required bracing during fitting to prevent curl.

1008

It’s a slow business fitting the linings.

1007

A piece is provided for the top of the port opening, but these were not fitted in practice, and I will leave them off, saving me a little effort.

1009

The ports are masked to apply a first coat of paint.

I don’t want any bleed onto the outer woodwork, as this won’t be painted.

1010

1013

The masking seems to work well, keeping the paint line within the rebate.

1016

The macros show minor gaps that require filling, and rough areas that require smoothing before repainting.

 

I have decided to line the remainder of the ports, I think they look better, although it probably adds up to another weeks work.

 

Moving on - if slowly.

 

B.E.

02/06/2023

 

[Nipper]

1 hour ago, Blue Ensign said:

 

 

 

1009

 

 

I have decided to line the remainder of the ports, I think they look better, although it probably adds up to another weeks work.

 

Moving on - if slowly.

 

B.E.

02/06/2023

 

Lovely work B.E.  If there's one thing I've learned from you, Chuck, and the other master builders on MSW, it's that if something will look better, then the time taken does not matter!

 

Nipper

Edited June 2, 2023 by Nipper
too much text

[allanyed]

17 hours ago, Blue Ensign said:

Fiddly little beggars to fit

B.E.  That is an understatement if ever there was one.  Kit or scratch, custom fitting is part of the fun for these little pieces.

These are among the very best looking stops I can remember in the kit build forums in a long time.  They are not overly thick which seems to be a common error in many other models.  Hard to tell from the photos but are the side stops resting on the bottom stop or on what would be the sill? 

She is looking super!!

Allan