Plastic or Wood models? Your Favorite?

[Bill97]

I have always built plastic models and have supplied my work area with all the tools, paints, glues, etc that are needed for plastic models. Last year I completed the Heller 1/100 HMS Victory and have completed several other plastic models prior to the Victory from Revell, Airfix, and others. I am currently working on the Heller 1/100 Le Soleil Royal which I expect will take me still quite some time to complete, possibly another year or more. I am always researching and thinking about what my future project might be. Through MSW I have seen numerous wood models builders are working on but really never considered building one. My thought being that all my tools, equipment, and skills were geared toward plastic models, not wood. 

I recently visited a maritime museum and discovered all the models of historic ships on display were wooden. It caused me to wonder if I might enjoy building a wood model kit?

Through most of my adult life I have built custom furniture so I am confident I have the wood working skills I would need. 

I am interested/curious from those of you who have built, or are building wood ship kits and maybe have also built plastic models, what are the differences and similarities?  Would I need to refit my “shipyard” very much to move from building plastic to wood? I am guessing I may need small electric wood working tools/equipment? Possibly plan to work in a different area due to saw dust?  Again I have no idea what to expect if I wanted to approach a wood model kit some day down the road, or just stick with what I know and have honed my skills toward. 

 

But let’s just say I did want to get a taste for it to see what I thought. What brand/company do you recommend?  What scale is good to work in for the first time?  Is there a particular model ship you would recommend?  What new tools might I need?  Please add any other advice or suggestions. As I mentioned it will be quite a while before I would look to build one.  It is just the museum stirred my curiosity. 

 

[mtaylor]

One critical question... are you looking at kits or scratch? 

 

Kits, usually just X-acto type blades, sand paper, sanding blocks.  I would suggest first doing a kit or two. Even if it's just something like the ModelExpo/Model Shipways 3-ship "beginner kit".   

 

 Scratch gets you into a whole different world as far as tools.  Many of the furniture tools are too large for model ships.  The only full-size power tool other than maybe an electric screwdriver I've found useful is a scroll saw.  My table saw, mill, and lathe are "small" tools.

[Pirate adam]

I agree with mtaylor.  You probably have more or less all of the tools you need to build one of the Model Expo kits if you have been building in plastic for a while.  One thing I would add to the tool list if you don't have one is a pin vise and a set of small drills.  Little files are also good to have.  I build lots of plastic airplane models in addition to wood ship models.  The biggest difference between plastic and most of the wood model kits is that you will have to do a bit more shaping, sanding, etc. on the wood models.  A cool thing about the wood kits is you will most likely end up with a kit that is very unique and your own depending on how you finish, rig, etc.  

[Montaigne]

I’d like to add that you’re going to need stronger clamps than one normal use with plastic models, and lots of them in various sizes. 
 

In short you don’t need a large amount of tools besides the ones mentioned by previous posters to get started. It’s a good idea to start small in the tool department, as you will discover along the way what tools would be of use and then add then, rather than buying lots of tools that you might end up never using. 
 

These are most of my tools used for modeling in wood, if it gets you an idea. As you see there’s not a lot, and there are many similar tools of which I mostly just use one or two. Adding to this I also have a small flexible vice, some small chisels and a lot more clamps. Obsviously glues and paints too, and finally a cutting mat. Oh, and I almost forgot another commonly used tool: a piercing saw. In the picture only its blades are visible. 
 

Edited April 6, 2023 by Montaigne

[Louie da fly]

The big difference in my experience is that with a plastic model the hull is already shaped - you just have to glue the two halves together. With wood you have to build it up, making the hull shape by planking over the frames. There's quite a number of extra skills needed, but fortunately there are tutorials on MSW on how to do your planking - see 

 

There's also the shaping of masts, spars, making your shrouds and ratlines from thread rather than them being ready-made, quite a few other issues. It's a bigger game, but having made both plastic and wooden models, I find wood far more satisfying. Oh, and wood is far more forgiving if you make a mistake. 

 

Steven

[Bob Cleek]

Traditional scale model ship building using traditional materials, primarily wood, scale rigging cordage, and non-ferrous metal fittings is an artistic discipline in and of itself which goes back at least as far as the Pharaohs. Those traditional materials have archival qualities that enable them to last for hundreds, if not thousands, of years. Few of us will ever build a model that will survive that long, but as a goal, it's something to strive for. Styrene and most other plastics, on the other hand, often deteriorate in a matter of decades, at best.  Building a plastic kit model yields a model that will be virtually identical to how many others there are in the same production run, save for the painting and weathering skills of the modeler. A scratch-built model is unique and can be the only model ever built of a particular vessel, thereby having the potential to be valued as a three-dimensional historical record of that particular vessel. Many find particular satisfaction in scratch-building for that reason. If one enjoys building models of any material or type they should pursue that hobby as long as it entertains them. It's really a matter of taste that dictates how any ship modeler choses to pursue the hobby.

[Baker]

I think wood is better than plastic for ships with a wooden hull. Although some of us can do amazing things painting plastic models.

Building a wooden hull is more difficult than a plastic one.  But once past this point, the rest isn't much harder than a plastic model. 

And, wood or plastic, rigging takes the same amount of time.

[allanyed]

15 hours ago, mtaylor said:

 I would suggest first doing a kit or two. Even if it's just something like the ModelExpo/Model Shipways 3-ship "beginner kit". 

I second, third, fourth this suggestion strongly.  

Allan

[Bill97]

Thanks everyone. All of this is extremely helpful. If and when I do build one it will be a kit not a scratch build. From what you recommend, I assume a Model Expo kit. I will for sure want to get guided experience from the kit instructions.  
Now that I have completed the Heller HMS Victory and am now working on the Soleil Royal, I thoroughly enjoy the detail work involved, the opportunity for creative bashing, and the long adventure with no actual goal on a calendar for completion. Unless my research is in error, I have not been able to find any other plastic model kits, Heller or any other brand, of this quality, detail, and scale to put on my next project list. If that is the case, I am thinking maybe I might try the experience of a wood kit. 

[hollowneck]

A ModelExpo kit would be an excellent place to start. Just as important as the selection of a "beginner kit" is this forum. If you run into difficulties or have questions, you'll get supportive - and in most circumstances - immediate feedback and help. I've modeled both plastic and wooden ship kits and I've found pleasure in modeling both. You'll soon discover that wood models do require more skills as well as a few more bench hand tools you'll need.

 

Good Luck! - and welcome to our community...

 

[Snug Harbor Johnny]

3 hours ago, Bill97 said:

Thanks everyone. All of this is extremely helpful. If and when I do build one it will be a kit not a scratch build. From what you recommend, I assume a Model Expo kit. I will for sure want to get guided experience from the kit instructions.  
Now that I have completed the Heller HMS Victory and am now working on the Soleil Royal, I thoroughly enjoy the detail work involved, the opportunity for creative bashing, and the long adventure with no actual goal on a calendar for completion. Unless my research is in error, I have not been able to find any other plastic model kits, Heller or any other brand, of this quality, detail, and scale to put on my next project list. If that is the case, I am thinking maybe I might try the experience of a wood kit. 

  Ahoy, Bill !   One advantage to wood is that one can re-do or re-shape things per one's whim.  My Wasa (Vasa) build re-started with work I did decades ago on a planked hull kit issued well before all the original ship materials were recovered and restored as can be seen today - in person or on-line.  I found that I could radically re-do things by just cutting into the wood and modifying ... (even more could have been done, but there are limits).

 

  You have already skills far beyond beginner, and I can recommend kits from OcCre (available in the U.S. from several suppliers) that should prove more than satisfactory.  The Endurance (some build logs can be viewed on MSW) seems a good value, and can be enhanced as some have done.  If cannons are your thing, OcCre has kits for the Beagle and the Terror - two other 'ships of discovery' with storied pasts.

 

  You won't need plastic glue, but 'Titebond' (or aliphatic resin carpenters' glue) will be a 'go-to' for wood-to-wood joining.  Also PVC 'craft' glue can be used for some applications, and (of course) Cyanoacrylate (CA).  I'm a fan of using medium gel CA and touching the spot I want to 'weld' with a dauber that was dipped in CA 'accelerator'.

 

  I've used some plastic enamel (Testors), as well as acrylic flat paints.

 

Good Luck!         Johnny

[Bill97]

Thanks hollowneck. Yes hollowneck as a long time member of MSW with several plastic ship build logs in the index, I know I can rely on fellow MSW friends to provide advice, as they always have. 
 

Thanks Johnny, I appreciate your comment about me having skills enough to tackle OcCre wood models. I am assuming you have seen some of my builds here on MSW to make that nice compliment.  Is your Wasa build here on MSW?  I will check the index. I have a plastic Airfix Wasa build logged. Titebond is very much present in my woodworking shop. I will give a look at the Endurance. 

[shipman]

To my mind it all depends on what resources a modeller has available, including time.

 

Building a decent plastic kit to high level of detail is just as much an accomplishment as a wooden one.

The tools required for a plastic build would comfortably fit into a small shoe box.

The model could be built on the proverbial 'kitchen table'.

 

Time and again we see fine examples on this forum.

Vision, experience and determination are prerequisites of any endeavour , whatever the subject.

[Bill97]

Great point shipman. I very much agree with you on the quality that can be put to a plastic model. I love working with plastic models, and feel very comfortable and confident. I am very proud of my HMS Victory and Le Soleil Royal builds, and others, here on MSW. My curiosity is if I have reached the pinnacle in plastic by building these two Heller ships?  Are there other plastic models that I am not aware of that provide this much quality and detail. Or would my next step (a long time from now) be to purchase a less detail/difficult plastic model and bash it to a higher standard? I built the Revell 1/96 USS Constitution and Cutty Sark years ago straight out of the box and have them displayed in my “ship room”. Now that I have very much improved my skills I have contemplated maybe purchasing either of them again and then build to the level that others have here on MSW. As I mentioned before I am so far from completion of my Soleli Royal. I am just at deck level. I will be bashing so much as I move into mast, rigging, cannons, etc.  I just enjoy this hobby so much my mind is always thinking “what would I like to build next?”  That is where the whole wood model idea came in. 

[Snug Harbor Johnny]

  I have even GREATER respect for modeling possibilities after seeing some of the great plastic-based builds on MSW.  Check out Cutty Sark by Bruma ...  THERE is a masterpiece based on the classic Revell CS kit, but with a number of 'busts'.  Krill did a masterful rendition of a Spanish Galleon - having a SUPERB paint job and outstanding rigging. Rob Riederrich has used the Revell CS not just for the Cutty, but also modified into the Glory of the Seas.  The present U.S.S. Arizona build shows what the incorporation of PE details can do.  I could go on, but I think you get the picture.

 

  We're into this not just for the result, but the journey of building and the learning and experience gained.

 

PS: To see either my Wasa (Vasa) in progress, or the completed Khufu barge, you can click on either link at the bottom of my posts.  I've done other stuff, but a lot of it doesn't exist any more.

Edited April 7, 2023 by Snug Harbor Johnny
clarification

[Bill97]

Oh no Snug Harbor, I am in no way knocking plastic models. That is what I have always worked with. I have 7 builds here on MSW that I am very proud of, including my completed Airfix Wasa. I love working with plastic models and my work area is completely set up for plastic. I only suggest the wood topic to maybe expand and open up new opportunities. 

[Bill97]

Snug Harbor I am always interested in seeing what others have done with models I have built. On your recommendation I looked in on Bruma’s Cutty Sark. That is a beautiful job. Kevin-the-Lubber also is doing a fantastic job of 3D printing a Cutty Sark. 

Edited April 7, 2023 by Bill97

[AlanDavison]

8 hours ago, Snug Harbor Johnny said:

  I'll never knock using plastic (at least as a 'starting point' with care and research added) after seeing some of the great plastic-based builds on MSW.  Check out Cutty Sark by Bruma ...  THERE is a masterpiece based on the classic Revell CS kit, but with a number of 'busts'.  Krill did a masterful rendition of a Spanish Galleon - having a SUPERB paint job and outstanding rigging. Rob Riederrich has used the Revell CS not just for the Cutty, but also modified into the Glory of the Seas.  The present U.S.S. Arizona build shows what the incorporation of PE details can do.  I could go on, but I think you get the picture.

 

  We're into this not just for the result, but the journey of building and the learning and experience gained.

 

PS: To see either my Wasa (Vasa) in progress, or the completed Khufu barge, you can click on either link at the bottom of my posts.  I've done other stuff, but a lot of it doesn't exist any more.

 

[AlanDavison]

But most importantly we’re here for the enjoyment and fulfillment of our hobby, be it plastic, wood, metal, ship, aircraft, tank or vehicle 

[Snug Harbor Johnny]

3 hours ago, Bill97 said:

Oh no Snug Harbor, I am in no way knocking plastic models. That is what I have always worked with. I have 7 builds here on MSW that I am very proud of, including my completed Airfix Wasa. I love working with plastic models and my work area is completely set up for plastic. I only suggest the wood topic to maybe expand and open up new opportunities. 

  Sorry if I was misunderstood ... I grew up with plastic models of all kinds alongside stick-built rubber powered model planes ... later gas powered.  My foray into wooden ship modeling wasn't until my teens, and was 'interrupted' by College, marriage, career, etc.  Now semi-retired, I'm 'back in the game', and have in mind eventually doing for the plastic Revell Thermopylae what Bruma did for the Cutty Sark - except that some major modifications will be needed to attempt correcting some of the inaccuracies of the 'cloned' release of Thermie from the Cutty Sark molds.  It will be a marriage of plastic and wood.

 

  BTW, I love your Airfix Wasa, one of the classic kits they did in a 'reasonable' scale.  Their much smaller Cutty Sark (not the 1:130 stated on the box, but in actuality about 1:168) presented too many difficulties for me at this stage in life - although photos in the 'Classic Ships' book on that kit prove that SOMEONE with enough skill, dexterity and patience was able to do a decent job on the 'stronger' plastic original release from fresh molds.  Now and then one can find an example of a ca. 1970 release.

 

  I'll revise my earlier post for better clarity.                     Johnny

Edited April 7, 2023 by Snug Harbor Johnny

[Bill97]

Johnny you have given me an idea after I finish my Soleil Royal in a year are so. I built, and gave in a case, both the Revell 1/96 USS Constitution and Cutty Sark. I built both of them right out of the box following the instructions. I have from time to time wished I had built them knowing what I know now. There are some fantastic builds of both here on MSW. I could just build one or the other again bashing it to a much higher skill level, using any extra parts from my current one as needed. So many options for what to do next. I will however for now devote my time and talents to the Soleil Royal. 

[Bill97]

I think I have made a decision for a long time from now project (it is just my nature)!😊

 

I am going to build the wood model kit Endeavor. Since the kits are on the expensive end I will need to save my dimes and pennies, birthday, and Christmas gift suggestions. 
 

I see here on MSW, and my research, there are 3 predominant producers of this wood model kit. I will make a spread sheet to list the pro and cons of each in order to make my decision. For any of you with experience with any of these kits, or the company in general, I appreciate your opinion. Which would you recommend?

 

Caldercraft-Endeavor

Artesania Latina-Endeavor

OcCre-Endeavor 

[DocRob]

You made your decision Bill and I think it's a good one. Answering the initial question of your thread, I can only add a personal view, as my experience in wooden ship and plastic ship builds are limited. I'm an experienced modeler though, but ships weren't on my past schedule.

Last year I took all my courage and started my first serious attempt in wooden ship modeling, I built the Duchess of Kingston from Vanguard models. I never limit my modelling urges, but I always need a trigger or a point of fascination to start a project, in this case the biography of the name giving dame.
When this initial spark is ignited, I will loose myself in a project, no matter what. The DoK was way above my skill level, but it is a well designed and with the help of the forum members, I almost sprinted through the build, which is finished sans the rigging. 
I had more fun learning and building and working with wood instead of plastic. It was so very exciting, that I bought another Vanguard kit, which is very helpful with a very clever design, good materials and exceptional step by step manual.

This year, I started on the other side of the medal, building a 1/350 scale USS Arizona and it was a love and hate build until now. The plastic of the base kit is so bad, that luckily nearly all the weaknesses of the kit are substituted by countless photo etched parts and 3D-printed ones. I had difficulties to get into a building groove, like with the wooden sailing boat, but I will finish USS Arizona soon and besides some letdowns, most of the build is tedious but satisfactory, too.

Interestingly it took me four month to build the Duchess of Kingston (without rigging) and the USS Arizona will take about the same time.

 

Like I did before, I will build models from plastic, wood, resin and maybe metal like before, but it will be generally more biased to ship modeling. Personally, I easily get bored, therefore, I always seek new challenges in modeling.

 

I guess with your background in modeling and woodworking skills, you will easily achieve good results with a decent wooden ship kit. The rest is determination and working always to your standards and like others already mentioned, have fun.

 

Cheers Rob

[Bill97]

Thanks Rob. 
 

Your comment “ I always need a trigger or a point of fascination” very much reflects my inspirations as well. Hence my curiosity about a project I may not start until way into 2024. 
Still happily absorbed by my Heller Soleli Royal. 

[aliluke]

Hi Bill97

I come from a mixed background in plastic and wood modelling. Plastic is mostly airplanes and particularly WWI kits which require rigging. In my experience plastic is much less forgiving and it is harder to scratch build parts you want to replace. Gluing, painting and decals are the key things for plastic modelling while shaping and sanding, neither much needed in plastic, are key to wooden ships. Having done WWI aircraft which requires drilling the only add I'd make for wooden ships is needle files. Plastic models also introduced me to the airbrush - my only power tool - but I don't suspect I'll use it much now that I have returned to wood. I've recently bought some miniature chisels but haven't used them yet. 

 

HMS Endeavour is a difficult first up choice but one I looked long and hard at - being a New Zealander! If I tried it, the Caldercraft version would be my first choice based on logs here. But it is a very difficult hull to plank with the extremely bluff bow. My first wooden ship was Sergal's Dutch Whaler which also had a bluff bow and worse a bluff stern. My planking is wrong but worked in a crude way. I only made this to a hull as I realised the kit parts were completely out of scale and I had no idea what I was doing. Some photos of it are in the kit forum. So take care buying one of the most difficult hulls to plank (I'm sure you've looked at the logs).

 

My second wood model was the Armed Virginia Sloop and as a relatively easy build containing all the elements of a more complex wooden ship. It was a very good choice and makes a really good looking finished model - sleek and speedy. That said, Endeavour is a fantastic ship and one I still eye. My advice would be choose one that you feel you can complete and one that you can live with afterwards!

 

Cheers

A

 

 

[Bill97]

Thanks aliluke. That is great advice to consider. What really stands out to me in your comment is the use of tools in plastic versus wood. My entire building area tool set is totally geared toward plastic. I also have an excellent airbrush and hundreds of Vellajo paints which I enjoy using. If I understand you correctly, and please correct me if I am wrong, I would not use all this stuff very much, especially my airbrush and paints?
I have plenty of time before I would ever start one (will be working on my Soleil Royal way into next year probably). I understand I can find the building instructions to some of the wooden models on line. Would be a great idea to read through one to see what I think of the building process, and if I feel confident in my skills to complete it. 

[DavidG]

Hi Bill97,

having built an Occre model, I can say, they have the most important aspect well designed - hulls are in proper shape, precisely cut and come together well. The apparent cost benefit diminishes though when it comes to fitting out - if you want a properly scaled model (which I assume you do, as this is where plastic models shine) you will either scratch build a lot or buy upgrade parts. When you review the online manuals, look for chain plates, eyebolts, rigging thread, mast/yard fittings, gun barrels etc to have your judgement.

I think both the AL and Caldercraft ones produce fine models, for my taste the AL one uses excessive amounts of plywood, but the Endeavour is a colorful ship so less of a concern. 

 

What you should consider though, it's hard to find a more difficult hull shape for a start than your choice. For this reason double planking is highly recommended. The AL kit is single planked by design, and of course nothing keeps you from double planking it should you wish, the included 2mm thick strips are on the difficult side to work with. For this reason I would vote for the Caldercraft model.

 

Regarding the tools, you should not worry too much, kits can be built with basic tools. You can certainly use your airbrush, however wood is much more forgiving than plastic and brushes work usually just as good.

Maybe you need something to turn your masts and yards - before owning a lathe, like many others I did it with a power drill. There are several tips on the forum how to do that.

[Roger Pellett]

It sounds like you feel that you have reached a plateau building plastic models and now are seeking new challenges.  Why don’t you skip  wooden kits and try building a model from scratch?  By doing so you can select both subject and level of difficulty.  In addition, when you finish you will have something unique.

 

Roger

[OllieS]

One thing that as far as I can see nobody has made much of is how time consuming a wooden kit build is.

This is not a complaint, the hobby is better for it I think. My first (covid lockdown) model took me 3 months, because I was determined to reach the finish line (I was still working as normal I was just curtailed in my old hobbies). The second took 18 months because I began to understand that the journey is the hobby and I bought a book to help make improvements.The most recent was started in June last year and will not be finished this June...it was a simpler build than the second ('about a year!')  ...until I focussed on easy improvements.

So, any kit turned into something good will be 500 hours and the big one more like 2000+

I'm sure plastic modellers build up a stash of future projects and so do wooden ones.

Watch out for planned decades! 

[Bill97]

Thanks gentlemen for your comments. All this feedback will go into my long range decision making. 
 

Roger I am not sure if I have reached a plateau on plastic or not. I may be blind to what is still out there I am not aware of. Having built the Heller HMS Victory, which took me nearly 2 full years to complete working easily 25-30 hours a week on it, and now 4 months into the Heller Le Soleil Royal, I am fascinated by the detail I can work with at this scale. I know Revell and other manufacturers have ship models in the 1/96 scale, which are great as well. I have built their USS Constitution and Cutty Sark. But they were not as detailed and fewer parts. Of course with the skills I have gained I could also purchase another model of this scale and bash it to a much higher level. So many options for future tasks. I am starting to get the feeling that maybe the Endeavor may be a big jump for my first wood model.