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michael mott

Bristol Pilot Cutter by michael mott - 1/8 scale (POF)

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On 1/12/2020 at 10:47 PM, michael mott said:

Hi Keith I set up the fence like this

Ah - I see it clearly - said the blind man.

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2 hours ago, michael mott said:

Fixing the hinges required some tiny "fake screws

Michael - I was always taught that the slots had to be aligned vertically!!!!!!!!

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Keith: we must have had the same teacher. When i asked why, I was told it stopped dust settling in the slots....

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37 minutes ago, KeithAug said:
3 hours ago, michael mott said:

Fixing the hinges required some tiny "fake screws

Michael - I was always taught that the slots had to be aligned vertically!!!!!!!!

There is always one nit picker in every crowd.....🧐

It was a great deal of work unscrewing the screws and adjusting the bight on the screws with micro slivers into the previously used holes then rewinding them in just enough so that they were tight at the right point Had to de-burr the underside of one of the flat head screws because the slotting machine had left a slight burr on the feed out side of the screw which I had missed that was holding the screw up slightly causing the slight out of alignment. however I managed to get it put right. 

 

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So I hope all the purists are satisfied now.   I shall be more careful on the door and the rest of the hinges.😀 Yes I know there is a little gap in the bottom corner, "Charlie" is planing up a little wedge of maple to fill it in.

 

 

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Hi Michael - 

 

Beautiful work, as always.  Not just the metalwork, but the paneling as well.

 

I used a very similar method to build the hinges for the companionway on the yacht America.

To install them I used eyeglass screws, then filed down the heads. 

I like them because the threads can be bedded into epoxy for a really secure hold.

(Also because, unlike an expert like you, I can't make my own . . . )

 

I am truly enjoying following along with you.

 

Dan

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Beautiful work Dan, I remember when you did that, your hinges look really great! in the picture with the hinges on the coin it appears that the metal that was inside the pin sections is still there, how did you cut the slots? it was some time ago and I cannot remember your sequence.

 

Michael

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There are 'rivet counters' (my preferred term) no matter what you do Michael ;); the other benefit of vertical slots is that any moisture will drain better.

 

cheers

 

Pat

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Hi Michael - 

 

I left the soft iron wire in the hinges when I cut the slots on a Preac table saw mounted with a metal cutting blade.

Leaving the wire inside kept the brass from collapsing or deforming as it was cut.

It took a bit of experimentation with jigs and stops, but with them I could get a consistent depth and width to the slots.

This was done as a long length of brass, like a piano hinge, which helped a great deal in handling the piece. 

Then the individual hinges were parted off and the inner wire pieces were pushed out.

 

Hope that clarifies things.

 

Dan

 

 

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Such a pleasure to read your posts Michael! This yellow cedar wood looks lovely indeed.

Why not use epoxy instead of PVA, this will not distort the card/thin wood and will allow lots of time for positioning.

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3 hours ago, vaddoc said:

Such a pleasure to read your posts Michael! This yellow cedar wood looks lovely indeed.

Why not use epoxy instead of PVA, this will not distort the card/thin wood and will allow lots of time for positioning.

Hi Vaddoc, I use epoxy for some applications but I cannot see using it on the Yellow cedar for any reasons, The issues I had were caused by trying to shortcut the building process of cabinet work in miniature. The yellow cedar is indeed a beautiful wood for model work the one drawback is that it is soft and marks easily. That said I will be using it for other model cabinet work but will use it in the same way that I worked the hard maple.

I finished the first set of hinges, which were laboriously slow to make.

 

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After reading Dan's comment about how he made his hinges, I am guessing that they are smaller than mine I thought about building a miniature saw but decided against that for now and did an experiment with my slitting saw on the mill The saw I used is only 1 3/4 in diameter and 1/32 inch thick so in order to get 1/4 inch tabs I had to make double cuts. I used some .010" annealed brass for the hinge body but used .028" brass wire instead of the soft Iron that Dan used. I think that .008" brass might be better. I folded a length of about 1 1/8th inch to form the long piece then set it up in the grinding vice with a piece of Castelo as a backing to support the brass while the cutter was fed into the brass.

 

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tomorrow I am going top purchase a slitting saw that is .064" and 2 1/4 inch in diameter this will allow for a longer piece to be slotted because I will have better clearance, and wont have to double cut it will make the indexing that much easier.

 

After removing the strip from the vice I cut two pieces and to my surprise the fitted together without any fettling so this will be the method going forward.

 

 

 

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The ten thou is a bit too thick though so I will use the 8 thou brass shim.

 

Michael

 

   

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Not sure if it is of any use, but I just tested loading sand paper on the Dremel. It should cut/eat away brass at this thickness well in a very controlled way. May worth a try, check my video in the Dremel paper thin blade thread at the tool section.

 

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Thanks for the information Vaddoc, I looked at your video. It is my personal preference to use precise tools where I can. Abrasive cut off discs and sanding discs are dispensable items as such that they wear away as they cut by abrasion much like a grinding wheel does only because they are thin they wear away much faster plus they eject those same particles as they revolve at high speed. A slotting saw is high speed steel and is ground to precise thicknesses with 90 degree square edges at the cutting face and for the most part remain at the same distance from the center of the axis of rotation through the extent of the operation and beyond. The only equivalent I can think of that I am sure you can relate to is the line drawn with a 4b pencil that starts with a sharp point at the beginning end of a 36 inch line and is a wider width at the end of the line than at the beginning of it, verses a rapideograph pen that remains the same for the entire length.

I am biased of course, I have a Dremel that spends most of its time in the drawer, as it has been supplanted by different tools. the last time I used it was to cut rail in situ on the garden railway.  

 

Michael 

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Using cutting tools with a defined geometry definitely results in crisper parts. Slitting/slotting saws is one option (and I have a whole collection of diametres and thicknesses), but fly-cutters are another option. Watchmakers use very small fly-cutters to cut the teeth in watch and clock wheels. They are cheap and easy to make from HSS bits or broken drills, when you don't have the right thickness of slitting saw or want another profile than a rectangular one.

 

Just back from weekend in London to visit the Model Engineering Exhibition in Alexandra Palace. There were a couple of guys who demonstrated their 'ornamental lathes', which in fact are a combination of lathe and milling machine. The milling is done with miniature fly-cutters set up in a cutting frame on the lathe cross-slide. Otherwise, the MEE is a far cry from what is was 20 or 30 years ago. The number and quality of the models and tools on display has gone down considerably. Haven't been to the show since the late 1990s or so and probably won't go again.

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4 hours ago, wefalck said:

Using cutting tools with a defined geometry definitely results in crisper parts. Slitting/slotting saws is one option (and I have a whole collection of diametres and thicknesses), but fly-cutters are another option. Watchmakers use very small fly-cutters to cut the teeth in watch and clock wheels. They are cheap and easy to make from HSS bits or broken drills, when you don't have the right thickness of slitting saw or want another profile than a rectangular one.

Oh Thank you Eberhard, I had forgotten that option, which I will try first.

 

Michael

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Michael, the guy here shows (about mid-way down the page) how to make a holder for grinding relieved cutters. This is important, when you require exact curvatures on the final product (such a gear teeth), but not relevant for rectangular ones. Still an useful holder that could be used on different arbors. In my case I used solid collet blanks.

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Thanks for the link Eberhard, I will likely make a holder similar to the one shown for some future works, there is some other very interesting parts to that link as well.

 

I made a really quick crude fly cutter from a spare Allen key, ground the width to .064" and set the brass up in a toolholder with the Castelo backing 'all pretty jury rigged.

 

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The speed of the lathe is not quite as high as the mill and it being only a single cutter the slots are not quite as crisp as the slotting saws, I ordered one today will be here tomorrow. 

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After a bit of fettling it actually cleaned up quite well

 

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and assembled OK. so proof of concept works.

 

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I do have a small boring bar that will take small 1/8 square HSS  tool steel but it is set up with a BSW (55degree angle not 60) cutter for boring a new back-plate for my C5 collet chuck for my Myford the first back-plate was beautifully threaded 1.25 x 8TPI (even if I say so myself) however it should have been 1.25 x 12TPI...... don't ask!  so that is why I used the Allen key fly-cutter.  

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, wefalck said:

The number and quality of the models and tools on display has gone down considerably. Haven't been to the show since the late 1990s or so and probably won't go again.

I have to agree Eberhard. I went a year ago and was pretty unimpressed. I think the decline mirrors the nations move from engineering to a service economy.

 

18 hours ago, michael mott said:

tomorrow I am going top purchase a slitting saw that is .064" and 2 1/4 inch in diameter

Michael. I find that I prefer the smaller diameter slitting saws which when combined with a decent thickness seem to run more true and hence are more accurate. Interesting use of Allen key although I think I would prefer to use the slitting saw for this sort of task. I will need hinges at 1/36 scale some time in the future so we will see how the method scales.

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1 hour ago, KeithAug said:

I find that I prefer the smaller diameter slitting saws which when combined with a decent thickness seem to run more true and hence are more accurate.

Hi Keith what sizes and what brand are you using, the ones I looked at on the net that are 1" or 1 1/2 inch diam were $100 -200 which is beyond my budget.

 

Michael

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32 minutes ago, michael mott said:

on the net that are 1" or 1 1/2 inch diam were $100 -200 which is beyond my budget.

Michael - yes beyond my budget as well. I buy a lot of my tooling from a British based supplier (Chronos) - but as ever these days much of the stuff originates from the far east. That said I find their HSS slitting saw blades to be of good quality. I think they ship worldwide.

https://www.chronos.ltd.uk/product-category/gear-cutters-slitting-slotting-saws/metric-hss-slitting-saws/

https://www.chronos.ltd.uk/product-category/gear-cutters-slitting-slotting-saws/imperial-hss-slitting-saws/

Of the far eastern manufacturers I find Soba (Indian) equipment to be well engineered and they do make slitting saw blades.

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Sorry to read that the Model Engineering Exhibition isn't what it used to be. I well remember being taken by my father in the 1950's and early 60's (OK, so that dates me!)

 

The mental image of a whirling Allen key gives me the shivers.....

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Slitting saws have standardised dimensions, starting with 20 mm. In the watchmaking industry supply, you may also find smaller ones, with 3.5 mm or 4 mm holes, but they tend to be pricey. Thickness starts from 0.2 mm, but some suppliers also have 0.1 mm.

 

20 mm Ø - 5 mm hole

25 mm Ø - 8 mm hole

32 mm Ø - 8 mm hole

40 mm Ø - 10 mm hole

50 mm Ø - 10 mm hole

63 mm Ø - 10 mm hole

Larger sizes then have 13 mm and 16 mm holes.

 

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Nice re-do on the cabinet woodwork Michael, and they are beautiful just as I knew they would be.  Very interesting discussion on the making of scale hinges, but aren't the screw slots supposed to be horizontal? 

 

Gary

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Druxey,

It all depends on circumstances, if your father took you as a toddler or a teen ...

 

I look at it as Allen twirling his keys and it seems less daunting.

 

Michael,

I was under the impression you knew all about brass, now it seems you have some (memory) gaps in your knowledge!! You still are my #1 when it comes to brass work. Really lovely details, and explanations!

 

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At the end of the 1950s I was just geeting out of my toddler years and already very much interested in everything mechanical. Unfortunately, there was no MEE in my country. My paternal grandfather (a torpedo mechanic in the Imperial German Navy up to the end of WW1) surely would have taken me there, had there been a MEE and hadn't he suffered from dementia and died too early. My father was into electronics and always a bit ambigeous about my model building activities.

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