HMS Victory by gjdale - FINISHED - Mamoli - Scale 1:90

[Jim Lad]

Very impressive indeed, Grant!  Well done, mate.

 

John

[JesseLee]

As has been said already, Amazing!

[mtaylor]

I'll just add my congratulations and admiration since all the superlatives have been taken.   Just magnificent, Grant. 

[Sailor1234567890]

Wow. Looking great. A quick question if I may..... I have never given it much thought but.... What keeps the water out in way of the entry port? I know the gunports have lids. What is used for the entry port?

[Patrick Haw]

Grant,

 

Congratulations on completing the rigging.  She looks simply amazing, everything so clean and neat.  Your build log is an inspiration and your tips and techniques are definite 'keepers'.  Thanks for sharing your work with us.

 

Patrick

[gjdale]

Wow folks!  Thank you all so very much for all your lovely comments (and all the "likes").  I feel quite humbled seeing so many congratulations.    

 

To be honest, it's the support and encouragement from all the folks here that has enabled to get to this point - a point that I am very pleased to be at, and feeling kinda proud too.  I actually moved the ship out of the shipyard today, to a temporary home elsewhere in the house - where she is less likely to get damaged while I'm working on the ship's boats.

 

I won't fill up the log with individual thank you's - please take them as read as I really do appreciate your support.  To answer a couple of specific queries though:

 

Keith (TMC) - yes, the Cutters are clinker built.  I have a cunning plan............

 

John (Texxn5) and Ben - you both asked what's next?  Well, there is just a small matter of the ship's boats to finish... "Next" is a closely guarded secret for now.  You'll just have to wait and see.

 

Sailor - a good question about keeping the seas out around the Entry Port.  I will admit to having absolutely no idea of the answer to that one.  Perhaps someone more knowledgeable than I would like to answer.  I'll wager Blue Ensign will be able to steer you right on this one.

 

A little bit of preparation and research today, and the afternoon spent in the "big" workshop assembling some of my recent acquisitions (new toys, er, I mean tools).  A little more prep and setting to work tomorrow and then it's on with the ship's boats.

 

Thanks again everyone for all the support.

[Patrick Haw]

Grant,

 

There was a discussion on Dafi's log a while back regarding the entry ports and if I recall correctly the conclusion was that a wooden barricade, or two half barricades, were fitted over the entry port openings from the inside of the middle gun deck when the ship was at sea.  Dafi has some pictures of his ideas on it in his log.

 

Best wishes,

 

Patrick

[gjdale]

Thanks Patrick - now that you mention it, I do recall seeing that discussion. Hopefully this will answer Sailor's question.

[gjdale]

Hi folks,

 

Thanks again for all the additional kind words and "likes".

 

I've spent the last couple of days thinking about and preparing for some ship's boat builds, and in doing some preparation/mods to some tools.

 

First up - the tools.  I finally got around to setting up the new toys properly.

 

Here is the Bandsaw (it's a 10" model from Carbatec):

 

 

Having never owned (or used) a Bandsaw before, the instructions for setting it up were.........let's just say they make some European ship model kit instructions look good!   However, through another woodworking forum, I came across a video of a guy named Alex Snodgrass demonstrating at a woodworking show how to set up a bandsaw correctly.  Having watched the video a couple of times and taken notes during the second viewing, I applied his instructions step by step and in no time I had the saw setup and running perfectly.  If you want to see this video, just search for Alex Snodgrass in YouTube - it really is worth watching.

 

Next up was the Dust Collection system.  Similar deal with the instructions, but managed to work it out by myself.  I opted for the 2 micron pleated filter upgrade (standard is 5 micron), which was a real bear to fit, but we got there in the end.  It comes with a standard 4-inch fitting, and I also bought a range of adaptors which enables me to connect virtually all of my dust-making machines, including all the Byrnes machines.

 

 

Next up - a mod to the Byrnes saw.  I've been thinking about the issue of ripping thin stock and the rear of the blade binding against the cut strip and either stopping the saw, or throwing the strip back - neither of which is good news!   The most common fix for this appears to be to offset the rear of the fence to allow some clearance, and in fact this was the advice from Jeff Hayes at Hobbymill.  I know that Jeff uses this method very successfully, but I have found it to be both fiddly and somewhat unreliable (could be just me).  Anyway, I got to thinking and came up with the thought that if I were to add another guide to the inside of the tall fence, but that stopped around the mid point of the blade, then that should provide the necessary clearance at the rear of the blade to prevent binding. I ran this idea past Jeff and he said he thought it should work. I bought some 3mm thick aluminium bar stock (25mm wide to match the height of the tall fence), drilled and tapped the high fence and secured my fence mod.  Sounds easy, but I managed to break three drill taps in the process - don't know if that was just my ineptitude in using the taps, or what.........  In the photo you can see some empty holes at the end of the fence mod.  That is because behind these lie the broken off drill taps - I decided that two screws would have to do in the end.

I haven't tested it yet, but I'm confident that it will work. (Famous last words!).

 

 

Final tool mod was to create a "zero clearance" table top for my scroll saw.  This was very simply done using a piece of 3mm MDF, cutting to shape around the existing table top, and drilling a small hole for the blade.  It is simply clamped in place on the table top.  This one I have tested, and it works fine. 

 

 

In the next post, I'll talk about my tests for small boat frames..........

 

[texxn5]

Nice shipyard Mate....toys and modifications are always fun.....awwww...come on what's next????? Enquiring minds want to know?????? Hmmm....darkside is looking suspicious now......what's the final tally on the time to build the Victory????

[gjdale]

Okay, so I've been mulling over methods for constructing the remaining ships boats. My launch came out pretty well, but there were some aspects to that method that weren't the greatest (in my opinion). I thought about using the method that Chuck does for his Longboat and Pinnace kits, and as copied very successfully at 1:64 scale by Blue Ensign in his Pegasus build log. I was concerned that scaling down to 1:90 would make this method a little too risky.

 

So, I went back to my Warrior Practicum (Romero) and reviewed the alternative methods described there. I have decided to test one of these, and if successful, will use it for both Pinnace and Cutter builds. At 1:90 scale, the 28' Pinnace will be 95mm long, while the 25' Cutters will be 85mm long. Romero provides plans at both 1:64 and 1:96 scale, so I adjusted the 1:96 scale to suit my needs. As he focuses on the 1:64 scale, he provides only occasional reference to dimensions for the 1:96 scale and in fact suggests using the same thickness frames in both scales. Unfortunately, the drawings don't agree with that approach, so further thinking about stock size was required. In the end, this is what I have come up with.

 

The keel/deadwood will be a total of 1/16" thick, but will be made by laminating two pieces of 1/32" stock at 90 degrees to provide greater structural stability/strength. This will allow me to cut the keel and stem in one piece.

 

Frames will be a total of 1/32" thick, again made by laminating two pieces of 1/64" stock.

 

I ran a test on the frames today, using some boxwood.

 

The inside of the frame pattern was cut CAREFULLY and SLOWLY on the scroll saw (hence the need for the zero clearance top). It was then cleaned up by hand with a couple of files.

 

 

The inner piece was then re-inserted and temporarily glued in place. Once dry, the outside of the frame was shaped using the Brynes disc sander.

 

 

The inner piece was then re-separated using a dab of isopropyl alcohol:

 

 

And here is the finished test frame - about 1/32" thick in all dimensions (that's less than 1mm for the metric only folks ):

 

 

The inner piece is important as it will be glued to a construction board to provide backing support while planking the boat.

 

Conclusion: It works! The frame appears to be relatively strong. Onwards to production - only 20 frames per boat and three boats to do....................

Edited April 27, 2014 by gjdale

[gjdale]

Sorry John,

 

Our posts must have crossed in the ether.  Don't have a final tally time on Victory yet - she's not actually finished yet - but we're now at 18 years and counting) thank goodness I haven't been counting hours!  As for what's next, you'll just have to wait and see, but the dark side is definitely involved........

[themadchemist]

Nice job on some delicate cutting Grant.

I like the table saw modification also, as well as the ZT scroll. BTW what type blade do you use on the scroll saw. I've looked at the ones that cut in any direction and wonder if that's what you used, although it looks like a flat blade. Have you tried the multi-directional cutting blades?

 

Can't wait to see what's in store for the clinker builds, Ron's been working on one for his Oneida is you haven't seen it.

This will be like 3 extra build logs.

 

Congrats on the new tools also.

[mtaylor]

Grant,

 

Those are some serious tools. I'm hoping they're for more than a few ship's boats.    I'm following your boats with interest as I've got a couple of these tiny things to do myself at some point... 

[dafi]

Hy Grant,

 

using the last hours of holiday to catch up with your progress: Very nicely done !!!

 

Great way of closing my free time.

 

:-) :-) :-)

 

Cheers, Daniel

[gjdale]

Thanks John, Keith, Mark and Daniel.

 

Keith the scroll saw blade in the pics is a 28 TPI skip tooth blade and it seems to work okay for this. I've got some 46 TPI spiral blades (that cut in any direction) but have found these very difficult to control in the past. I may give them another go for this as some of the smaller frames have REALLY tight curves. I also had a look at Ron's work in his Oneida log, having spotted the reference in your own log earlier today - some might fine work there, but oh to be working at 1:48 instead of 1:90! Next time........

 

Mark - yes, rest assured the new tools have more to do with future builds than ships boats.

 

Daniel - nice to see you back. Always a pleasure to see you here - you were one of the first to encourage me to do better. So, in a way, it's all your fault!

Edited April 27, 2014 by gjdale

[dafi]

Oh Grant, I am soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo sorry ;-)

 

XXXDan

 

PS: ... and you are doing grant :-)

[themadchemist]

I know what you mean with the 1/48 vs 1/90. The San Francisco Galleon kit is 1/90 and I dread it for that.

 

You couldn't tell by the quality of your detailing though. Your very good with the scale issue.

[Remcohe]

Sorry Grant I have been away from your log wayyyy to long. She's looking spectacular!

And I see your collection of fine tools has grown too

 

Remco

[Trussben]

Some very nice tool upgrades there Grant, I'm jealous of the dust extraction system, I'd love one of those.

It looks like you are using a dewalt 788 scroll saw??? Have you tried using Flying Dutchman blades? I use the ultra reverse versions with good results, normally #3 and 5 sizes on the size stock I work with. However they don't last forever!

 

Ben

[gjdale]

Thanks Brian, Lawrence, Keith, Remco, and Ben, and also all the "likes" - all of your comments and likes are very much appreciated.

 

Brian - thanks for the recommend on the Bandsaw - it's a bloody beauty mate!

 

Lawrence - the bandsaw is really nice, but I'd put the disc sander way ahead on the priority list.  Save your pennies and buy yourself a Byrnes disc sander - it's a lovely piece of machinery and a joy to use.

 

Keith - the small scale is a real challenge.  I appreciate your comments, but I'm really looking forward to working with something in a bit larger scale!

 

Remco - nice to see you back.  You are of course one of those responsible for the growing tool collection!

 

Ben - the dust extraction system is fantastic. I don't know how I managed for so long without one. The real bonus is that it's both a lot quieter in operation, and a lot easier to switch between machines, than I had anticipated.  The scroll saw is not a dewalt, but an Excalibur, purchased through Carbatec here in Australia.  It too is a real beauty and is proving to be worth every cent I paid for it (definitely NOT cheap!).  One of it's key features is that instead of the table tilting, the entire headstock tilts, enabling an angled cut while maintaining a level cutting surface (more on that later).

 

So, with thankyou's done, it's time for an update............next post.

 

 

[gjdale]

Ship's Boats - continued:

 

In my last update, I described how I was planning to make the frames for both the 28 ft Pinnace and the two 25 ft Cutters.  With that test deemed "successful", it was time to proceed.

 

First up was to make the building boards - one for each of the three boats.  After re-sizing the patterns from my Warrior Practicum (Romero), I printed these on sticky label paper (a tip picked up from Danny Vadas) and stuck them to 3mm Birch Plywood (aircraft grade).  In this pic, you can clearly see the very different shape of these two hull forms.

 

 

I think I could have equally well used 3mm MDF, but Romero specified the other, so I decided to see if there was a noticeable difference (other than a significant price difference, that is!).  There wasn't - at least not to my rudimentary skill level.  I used a 28 TPI skip tooth saw blade for the most part with these.  Keith asked previously about a spiral blade (which cuts in any direction).  Apart from having had difficulty controlling these in the past, they do have a noticeably wider kerf and I wanted to keep the kerf to a minimum for this job as I need to be able to re-insert the centre section as part of the building process (all will become clear a little further down the track).  The one exception was when I cut the the transom "slot" at an angle after cutting the remainder of the board.  To do this, I inserted a spiral blade and used the scroll saw's tilting head feature to cut the transom slot at 18 degrees for the Pinnace, and 12 degrees for the two cutters.  This doesn't really show up in the pictures (I may have taken the pictures before cutting them).  Anyway, here's what the completed build boards look like.  I clearly still need some practice with the scroll saw, but cutting accuracy wasn't vital for this part (thankfully!).

 

 

I mentioned previously that the frames are cut from 1/32" stock, made up by laminating two pieces of 1/64" stock.  The reason for the laminated approach is to provide structural strength by laminating the two pieces with the grain running at 90 degrees to each other.  While this does work, anyone who has tried laminating sheet stock will tell you of the problem of unwanted curvature - just check out Mark Taylor's Licorne log to read of his issues building ship-size frames at 1:64 scale, and you'll appreciate how much more severe the problem becomes at this tiny scale.  On reflection, I reckon this is the reason that all plywood you buy is made of an odd number of laminates - to keep it flat.  Anyway, here are the frame patterns laid out on the laminated stock - I'm using pear for the Pinnace, and will be using Costello Boxwood for the Cutters.  (Oh, and by the way, after laminating, the stock was placed and clamped firmly between two thick boards for over 24 hours).

 

 

Once the stock is cut down to "frame" size, the warping fortunately more or less disappears.  However, here is a news flash - the scroll saw does not discriminate between wood and fingers!  I got a little too close at one stage and just nicked my right forefinger - nothing more serious than say a slight slip with the old Exacto, but enough to make me sit up and take notice.  After cutting 20 frames, I reckon I'm starting to get the hang of the scroll saw though.  The real trick is getting your mind around manoeuvring the workpiece around the blade, rather than the other way around.  To do this safely, you really need to allow plenty of "waste" stock around the final piece.  I was a little short on spare stock, so economised a little more than perhaps I should have.  Lesson learned.  The method was to cut the inside of the frame pattern out on the scroll saw, clean up with a file, then temporarily re-glue it and shape the outside of the pattern on the disc sander (this gives the otherwise very fragile piece some support). For those frames with complex curves, the final part of the external surface was achieved using a grinding/polishing stone in a hand held rotary device (similar to a Dremel).  The inner stock was then removed through the judicious use of Isopropyl Alcohol - being careful not to use so much that the frames delaminated!

 

And here's the result: 

 

 

The keel was made in a similar way, only using stock of twice the thickness (ie two pieces of 1/32" stock to create a 1/16" thick laminate).  Bending wasn't quite as severe, but is present nevertheless.  I'm now keeping the completed keel clamped until it is ready for installation in order to minimise the warpage.  Again, the inside line was cut first.  Then the frame positions were transferred from the building board to the keel and the piece returned to the scroll saw to have the frame notches cut. Then the outside shape was formed using the disc sander.  Here is the completed keel - note that the deadwood, and apron pieces have been included in the single piece.

 

 

Here are a couple of pics of the keel in place on the building board.  In the first pic, the line of the lamination running down the centre of the keel is quite evident.  

 

 

In the second pic, you will note that the aft end of the keel piece does not reach the aft end of the board.  This is because the transom piece (frame no. 10) will be attached to the keel first, and then a stern support piece will be attached outboard of that into the build board.

 

 

That's it for now.  Over the next week, I hope to install the keel and frames onto the build board for the Pinnace, and once that is proved successful, I'll repeat the process for the two Cutters.

[augie]

Nice start, Grant.  I like your reasoning on the always odd number of layers for plywood.  Don't really know if it's true ---- but it sounds great!

[mobbsie]

This is a good tutorial for me mate, I'm enjoying it immensely.

 

Looks to me though as you don't need that much practice on the scroll saw, it all looks ship shape to me.

 

Really looking forward to the next instalment.

 

Be Good

 

mobbsie

[trippwj]

Very nice, Grant - and a useful tutorial for later!  Will file this away for future. 

 

Glad the finger was only a wake-up call for you!

[newbuilder101]

Looking wonderful! I will tuck this information away for future use!

[Trussben]

You have an Excalibur scroll saw u lucky dog! That is truly the rolls Royce .I know dewalt designed the 788 after that model, I just couldn't afford the double price!

 

Ben

[mtaylor]

Sweet work on those boats, Grant.  Hmm... laminating the frames for the boats. That sounds worthwhile to look into.

[themadchemist]

Nicely done Grant. I'm saying your a Pro, even if you won't admit it.
Humble is OK, but you must be overjoyed with the way those frames turn out. That's some fine delicate work and deserves a standing ovation.

I knew this was gonna be good 

[gjdale]

Thanks Augie, Mobbsie, Wayne, Sherry, Ben, Mark and Keith, and for all the "likes" as well.

 

Augie - one day soon I'm going to test my theory on plywood and warping. My logic makes sense to me, so it will be it interesting to put the theory to the test.

 

Mobbsie, Wayne and Sherry - I'm glad you find this useful, and hope that you can avoid some of the pitfalls that I have already encountered, and no doubt will continue to encounter.

 

Ben - yessir, feel very lucky to have this saw. I believe in investing in quality when it comes to tools - that way I can only blame the operator when things don't work out. I also believe that quality tools pay for themselves over time. They even save you money by not having to throw out the cheap crappy one you bought first - that's what I tell the Admiral anyway!

 

Mark - it's really not much different to the sistered frames you're making for Licorne - just a wee bit smaller...........

 

Keith - you are too kind, but thank you anyway. I consider myself an apprentice still, but one who's always willing to give it a go and push for the next level. That's how we develop our skills - along with the help and guidance of friends and mentors like those we find right here at MSW.