Hr. Ms. Java 1925 by Piet - FINISHED - Pacific Cross Roads - 1:350 - PLASTIC - Light Cruiser of Royal Netherlands Navy as she was in 1942

[Jim Lad]

Crikey, Piet!  I go away for a few weeks and you've almost got your beautiful 'Java' completed.  She sure looks first class.

 

John

[Piet]

Thank you Craig for your kind words. She didn't come out too bad and at arm's length she actually looks kinda nice.

 

Thank you as well Johm for looking in and your kind comment.

 

I have not been able to work on the diorama part this week.  I am paving a rather large walk way around the garage and it's killing me. Legs hurt, hands hurt but I'm almost done.  Just hope it wont rain for the next few days

At least Gwen is happy with the way it looks and that's a big compliment - no what iff's and why not's. So, I'll be back working some more on the sea next week.

 

Cheers,

[CDW]

I am partial to the name, Gwen. Gwendolyn was my Mother's name and everyone called her Gwen. Never known anyone else with that name.

[cog]

6 hours ago, CDW said:

I am partial to the name, Gwen. Gwendolyn was my Mother's name and everyone called her Gwen. Never known anyone else with that name.

King Arthur's Gwenivere

 

You really showing off old-timer ... I can feel the pain ... remember it all to well. I wish you lots of strength, and a even more TLC when the job is done

 

Cheers

[popeye the sailor]

Crosby Stills Nash and Young had a song,  but isn't spelled that way......Guinevere

[Baker]

Nicely done Piet.
Congratulations

[src]

On 5/5/2018 at 7:07 PM, Piet said:

 

@ Sam: Regarding the tints breaking down, you mean that blue will fade? 

 

Piet,

my apologies, in was imprecise in my choice of words. What I was commenting on was my experimenting with the BJB tints in a polyester resin we use for fiberglass at the shop I work at. What I should have said is the BJB tints DISPERSE well in the polyester resin. 

So sorry for the confusion. 

Yoy sea looks great!!

sam

[Piet]

Thank you all for dropping in gents.  I am still very engaged in Gwen's pathway with no time for a breather. I must really mow the lawn before the town's garden gestapo presents me with a citation   It's almost completed, I'm now ready to fill the seams for the grout cement. But - - - the weatherman has rain forecast in the next few days so I need to wait for a drt day to do this.

 

Gwen's first names are Gwenfra Evelyn, and no, she's a Dutch girl.  Gwenfra is from Welsh origins due to her grand parents who were British.  Long story but yeah, it's a nice name. Not common and especially Gwenfra.

 

Thanks Patrick for the compliment. Let's hope I can do justice when adding a few swells and the frothy hull water with a curled bow wave.

 

Yeah Sam, that crazy English language, It's so easy to be confused or confusing Thanks for explaining it to this hard headed Dutchman, understand it fully.

 

Cheers,

[Piet]

Hello everyone,

 

As youns already know, I have been busy with "stuff" around the house and a few other things but have had the time to do some more work on the "Java" diorama. I'm still futs'n with it, tweaking here and there, trying things things out.

 

I'll post a few pics as "Java" now looks.  I have a serious request to make and that is, after you have scrutinized the pics I would very much appreciate any comments and or suggestions to fix the things I don't see (the forest and trees thing)  or improvements or elimination of things. I have already thinned out the smoke from both stacks after the pics were taken. I am also working on the 8 inch shell splashes I think will add some drama to the display.

I know, I know, I am the captain and should do what pleases me but I am not too proud to seriously consider any input from my friends. Remember, this is really my very first attempt to do a diorama.  There is still time for changes to improve the display where possible.

The smoke is from grey died lamb's wool. Closeup it shows the wool fibers but at regular viewing distance it looks acceptable. The canon smoke is not permanently attached yet as is the smoke from the funnels.

These pics were taken inside the garage, aka shipyard, with available overhead fluorescent lighting.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  Hr. Ms. Java at 29 knots during the afternoon phase of the battle on February 27, 1942.

Hr. Ms. Java at full speed - 30 knots

Hr. Ms. Java at full speed, 30 knots - closeup. During gunnery practice, note the amount of personnel to man each gun.

 

Cheers,

[Old Collingwood]

Great work piet  very very nice,      de ere.

 

OC.

[lmagna]

Piet

I think the water is FANTASTIC from all views. Job well done in my opinion.

 

The smoke from the stacks and guns as you have already stated looks a little grainy and dense in your close up shots but you have said that you have already thinned that out some since you took the pictures. It will be interesting to see how the new version turned out.

 

Did you consider or try using cotton balls or pads for the smoke? I have no idea if it would look better just throwing it out there as a question.

 

Can't wait until the next pictures.  

[cog]

If you find the smoke acceptable at normal viewing distance, then it is.

 

I would give the bow wave a bit more pronuniation by adding some white. It looks like you have been a wee bit careful in applying it. Also, if you do, add a drop of very dark blue to it to make the colour more life like.

 

Love the we it turned out so far mate. How's the planning on the Wipwatermolen goin'?

[popeye the sailor]

WOW Piet....... the diorama looks great!   you did a great job with the water........even like the 'missed' shell splash near the ship    I haven't done too much with the diorama thing either.....the only one I have {still in the project state} is for an old Ambroid train,  the B&M snow plow.   if I were to do one on a ship,  I probably wouldn't go as far as you have,  concerning the smoke and gun blast........they both are very hard to get right.   you did an admirable job with it though,  but for the gun blast,  I think I would agree with Lou.  cotton balls......really pulled apart {to make it wispy and thin}  might be a better approach.   then again,  looking at pictures of these guns in action,  the cloud produced does look rather dense.

   but it does fall on you my friend.......if you feel that it looks fine....then it is    far off,  I'm sure it does look good.....cameras have that nasty habit of blowing thing out of perspective.   it's your vision and view that matters....I love what you did    'bout time I got to see this!

 

luv that little touch of red in the blasts   

[JesseLee]

Wow Piet, both ship and sea look awesome!!!!!!

 

Jesse

[CDW]

I like it...a lot. Never done a display like yours, but it's on my to-do list.

[Jim Lad]

Looks really good, Piet.  I've no idea how to improve it as I've neve done a diorama.

 

John

[Piet]

Thank you all for your input, much appreciated.

 

Ref the smoke, yes, I have first used some cotton, which is actually a man-made material, from one of my supplement bottles. It's were fine and dense.  Looks good but the white coloring has to be painted with either a very thin acrylic or an ink, which I didn't do.  The problem I foresee in the paint spraying procedure is the most likely clumping, making it look more like wet hair.  I abandoned it for the time being and tried this already died wool, just being lazy and hoping it would work. 

I am still tweaking here and there and will go back to the cotton and use the airbrush.  In general, I think we are on the same sheet of music regarding the smoke issue.  Even though it looks acceptable at arms length does not mean we shouldn't try to improve the looks.  The main thing with my request for feedback is whether youns like like smoke added to the display or not and it appears you find no objections  I and Gwen would like to see the ship in action, so I'll forge ahead with the smoke.

 

Ref the bow wave, it looks like you and I are reading our minds Carl. This morning I started on some more modeling on the bow wave. I took my resharpened #11 Execto knife to it and removed some material between the wave and the hull, then added some more material to the top of the wave and further back of it to blend more with the following wave in the water.  I had to leave the added material cure before adding more to the wave.  This modeling will take a few days because of the curing intervals but I can see a lot of improvements already.

 

Ref adding blue coloring to the bow wave. Yes, here too I thought about it this morning and will attempt to mix some of the powder die I used for the sea with white to make it light-blue. After I'm happy with the way it comes out then I'll apply the blue and white.  It already has a curl but not pronounced enough.

 

Ref. the 8 inch Jap shell splashes, I also started with two new ones. I used a bunch of unraveled cotton thread and stiffened them up with very diluted acrylic medium. A few more applications and then into the sea for the finalization.  I found a painting of the Dutch light cruise Hr. Ms. Tromp surrounded by these shells. I'll try to use that as a guide.

 

Youns see there is still a lot more detail work involved before we can attach the name plates to the base and put a plexiglass dome over it, which I need to find the materials for yet.  Oh by the way, this word youns or yuns is what the folks in Pittsburgh, PA use for "all y'all" in the south   Just thought youns may be wondering

 

Hey Carl, the wipwatermolen will have to wait a while. We have had some major expenses to work on. Being on a rather small government pension and Social Security we have to keep our extra curricular activities to a minimum.  However, I will be making a material list and start pricing stuff.  Oh yeah, the roofers left a 5/8 inch piece of 4 X 8 exterior plywood. Yeah, we had our roof re-shingled that costs us $30,000 smakkers, ouch    Then Gwen's Buick needs new engine mounts and possibly transmission work and my Chevy S110 needed a new ignition system.  Ouch, ouch and double ouch.

Hr. Ms. Tromp

 

Cheers,

 

[cog]

I thought you would be doing "some" last minute alterations

Hope the costs for the cars won't take the wind out of your sails Piet. By now you've had enough unexpected expenses I'd say! Hang in there mate.

Did you calculated the new measures for the mill? What size will it eventually turn out?

 

Give my best wishes to Gwen.

[Louie da fly]

Piet, I came across  this site

http://dioramas-and-models.com/how to do it.html

which has the best explosions I've ever seen in modelling. It uses cotton, LED lights and (sometimes) cellophane, and looks very good in photographs. I don't know whether it's as good when you see it "live", but it might be worth considering. 

Edited May 24, 2018 by Louie da fly

[amateur]

Hi Piet,

 

That is a very nice result. And as you ask: I think the smoke from the stacks is convincing, the smoke from the guns is not.

 

I have three points of doubt:

 

1. the form: I was in the artillery during my military service (10 guys to man one gun, so I am not too surprised by the number of man standing to one gun). And one thing we learned: The smokeball from the gun has a strange form: once the shell leaves the gun, the first amount of smoke is blown sideways, at the same time the gumn recoils, and the remainder of the smoke trails the shell. It makes the smokeball a bit lengthened, but slightly wider at the point where it leaves the gun, but also: the end of the gun is covered in smoke just after firing. 

And also: the smoke ball is denser and darker in the middle, and more open at the outside, especially when there is some wind blowing.It is certainly not a round ball-like cloud (and of course: the size of the smokeball depending on quite a lot of factors).

 

2. the place were it is relative to the guns:  as the ship is going full speed, the smoke ball is not in the middle of the gun, but it trails the ship a bit.

 

3. : when you depict the gun while firing, the last smoke leaving contains burning powder, and is therefore colored different from the remainder of the smokeball.

 

In short: I like the result so far, but I think the gun-smoke needs some tuning.....

 

(below the only pic of a firing gun I have in my archive: A Dutch M114/39 shortly after firing a shell)

 

 

 

[amateur]

Did some searchin gin the navy foto-archive.

Found three pics (Piet without doubt has them on his computer).

 

two of Java firing (one at daytime at full speed, one at night, and looking at the water: without speed at all)

 

 

and one of De Ruyter showing the burning hot gasses leaving the gun. IN the night-pic I can't discover whether or not we only see the center of the smoke-ball, or the total. IN that case, it is a fairly compact smoke-ball. Comparing it to the other two, I guess we see only the core of the smoke, that is lighter by the hot gasses.

 

Jan

 

 

[lmagna]

12 hours ago, Piet said:

Ouch, ouch and double ouch

Piet I must say that a $30,000 + month in extras is a little more than just extracurricular activities! Good luck on the cars. 

 

I was just mentioning the idea of cotton to you. I did not know if it would be better or not. What you have done already is pretty impressive to me. 

[amateur]

7 hours ago, Louie da fly said:

Piet, I came across  this site

http://dioramas-and-models.com/how to do it.html

which has the best explosions I've ever seen in modelling. It uses cotton, LED lights and (sometimes) cellophane, and looks very good in photographs. I don't know whether it's as good when you see it "live", but it might be worth considering. 

 

I took some time to read this one. This guy is a wizard with cotton and chicken wire.

(Although my guess is that a major part of the wizardry is not in the cotton, but in his setup for the pics)

 

Jan

 

Edited May 24, 2018 by amateur

[CDW]

1 hour ago, amateur said:

 

I took some time to read this one. This guy is a wizard with cotton and chicken wire.

(Although my guess is that a major part of the wizardry is not in the cotton, but in his setup for the pics)

 

Jan

 

That makes a huge difference, indeed. The proper background, lighting, and camera/settings is an art form. I only wish I knew how to do those things so well.

 

[Piet]

Hello everyone and thanks so very much for your very helpful input. 

As usual, I have been very busy with other things around the house preventing me from doing much on the model, except some tweaking here and there.  It's too late now to add a few pics of the tweaking stuff I've done but rest assured that I'm still working on the smoke issue.

I did read the tutorials on the URL Louie da Fly send me  - thank you Louie - , very impressive and realistic. Question is, what scale? Looks like large enough to use chicken wire and EDs.  In a scale of 1:350 that'll be nearly impossible.  

I did try using cotton day before yesterday but during the airbrush spraying my brush clogged up sending me into the fix it mode and ran out of time. I had to leave things be as is, till I have some time to unclog the brush/gun. I was using acrylic paint, thinned down with water. I get air but no suction and will have to completely disassemble the gun.  I have another one but no hose to connect to the compressor.  

 

Thank you Jan for that detailed explanation of gun smoke and nice pic of the artillery shot, impressive. The closest I got to shooting a gun was during my service in the Royal Air Force (KL) shooting rifles. I don't have the one shot of "Java" shooting but do have the one of "deRuyter." 

I think I have now enough ammo (pun intended), including the pic below, to create some believable smoke.

 

One of the problems are in keeping the funnel smoke stiff enough to remain horizontal or a little angling upwards and widening further aft. 

I am using a 1 mm wooden pin to attach the gun smoke to the barrels so that's a plus, I think.  I may even resort to buying a small rattle can of Testor's dark grey paint to play with, experiment with.  This will be an ongoing task till we have it close to believable. 

 

Most of my tweaking was with the sea and have improved on it, I think.  I even dug some of the water away next to the hull on the starboard side, painted some red below the black waterline and redid the water there.  At least Gwen likes the improvements.

 

I found a photo of "Java" doing a broadside.  This was the last gunnery competition just before the hostilities with Japan, early part of 1941, where "Java" won the Challenge Cop for the third time.  My father was just then transferred to "Java" from the O19 and I heard him talk about it. Apparently he was in charge of the #9 gun.  There is even a short film about the actual shooting showing him in it but the film was taken off YouTube due to pirating and I don't have it. In any case, this is what prompted me in starting with more roundish smoke balls.  Looking at it closely we can see very irregularly shaped smoke but still more or less close to the barrels of the guns. I'll go with Jan's suggestions and try to shape the smoke ball more like these.

 

Translated as "Remembrance of 3 times Challenge Cup. G.S.O. 

 

Cheers.

[Piet]

Hello everyone and my thanks to all who came to visit and clicked the like button, much appreciated.

 

After doing some shopping and mowing the backyard I took some time to try making gun smoke and funnel smoke from cotton.  This is turning out more difficult then expected.  No matter what I do it still looks stringy or hairy.  I did buy Testor's Battle Ship Grey rattle can paint but using that in the mister mode it made the cotton clump too much making it look like a ball again.

I'm not giving up and continue experimenting.  I made a photo of the second try in a closeup.  From a standard viewing distance it looks really good, perhaps a little too large but I think I'm on the right track. Now I have to give it a couple of dustings of the grey paint and hope it can hold this shape.

 

As mentioned yesterday I did a lot of tweaking on the sea. The first area I tackled was the bow wave. It was too small to my liking so I cut some material away to make it thinner and then put a support under it and added more wave making material to make it higher, then let it cure overnight.  The next day I trimmed it again and came close to being happy with it, not quite, but close.  So I added some stuff to it and let that cure.

In the meantime i also monked with the shell splashes and am happy with them.

 

Another day later I checked how the bow waves came out and think it's okay.  I did add a little blue to the inside as Carl suggested which improved it.

I also removed some of the sea along the port side of the hull, repainted the red and the waterline black stripe, then refilled the hole some.  After the stuff cured I added the white highlights.

 

Difficult to make out what the original bow wave looked like but this is how I made the form. I used baking parchment paper for the non-stick.

 

The completed bow wave

 

Another look of the port side bow wave and the shell splash.

 

The reworked hull and sea port side. Oh yeah, I also added the spend steam water coming out the sides.

 

Overhead shot. The smoke is still to be redone yet.

 

Cheers,

 

[lmagna]

Hi Piet

There is nothing wrong with your smoke before or now. Only you have the real life view to tell what medium you like the best. Just to confuse the issue even more though I thought I might bring up the possibility of using #0000 Steel wool. To be honest I have no idea if the strands are finer than what you have already used or not but at least you would not need to add painting.

 

Just trying to stir the pot, you are doing fantastic work, and unknown to you are giving me a bunch of information and ideas for the 1/350th Titanic I need to build for my wife, I'll go back to my corner now. 

Edited May 30, 2018 by lmagna

[mtaylor]

Wonderful work, Piet.  Looks like you're on the right track.  Lou has a good idea but I wonder what the model RR guys use for their static displays.  That second to the last photo looks very realistic, IMO, as does the water and the shell splash.

[Old Collingwood]

Lovely work piet,  I first saw cotton wool used too great affect with an aircraft dio,   it can look fantastic.

 

You are doing an amazing job and its looking superb.

 

OC.

[jud]

Looking good, gun smoke in those days was fairly dense and was not flash-less, going to be difficult to reproduce. I suspect the guns were free to fire when loaded, director aimed but locally fired so broadsides in a ship to ship unlikely, perhaps a director controlling a couple of guns firing in unison, but not the whole battery, also there will be stoppages and a gun or two may be slow.  Doing an great job on the whole project, all I could add would be to say the shell splashes could be larger, shell near misses, often soaked those on the bridge of Cruisers, but you don't want them that large, it would hide way too much. The Japanese used die markers on their projectiles for spotting purpose's, would expect to see reds, greens and yellows in all shell splashes and in the water after the splash collapsed. Glad to see you are keep-en, keep-en on.

jud