Chris Watton and Vanguard Models news and updates

[Murphys77]

Whatever happened to the Bristol you were developing?

M.

[chris watton]

1 minute ago, Murphys77 said:

Whatever happened to the Bristol you were developing?

M.

Still happening, but will do that later. Bristol is quite large (although Indy is longer), and I have to make sure I have time to produce all the parts and have all the materials available- - and I do not want another very expensive kit out so soon after Indy.

[Nipper]

Chris

I'm really looking forward to the Baltimore schooner, with its link to Patrick O'Brian's Ringle.  It will be a great addition to the VM range and I guess will sell very well - it will very likely be my next build after Sphinx.

 

Will another frigate be the best next project for VM?  You haven't yet got a two- or even a three-decker but I wonder if these may be out of the price range for many modellers - I'm sure they would sell but perhaps not as well as something the size of Sphinx.  

 

I think that the Aubrey/Maturin books are the most inspiring and enjoyable for those interested in maritime history. and I think that many of us have been moved to build a ship as a result of them.  I might have gone for a Surprise kit if one had been available before Sphinx.  So I guess Surprise could be a big seller, perhaps really enticing for new readers of the Aubrey/Maturin books.

 

If you do decide to go ahead, why not offer some figures of Jack Aubrey's crew, not just Jack and Stephen?  Then I could use them to crew my Sphinx!

 

Nipper

 

 

[gjdale]

1 hour ago, chris watton said:

I am almost compelled to develop a Patrick O’Brian vessel from the Aubrey & Maturin series, HMS Surprise (much smaller than Indy), complete with Aubrey & Maturin figures. I am not sure, what you guys think?

 

I think you would have a ready (and substantial) market for that one Chris. There have been many, many members seeking such a kit over the years.

[chris watton]

To be honest, if I had my way, the next half a dozen kits at least would be frigates!

 

But I cannot...

 

I guess it could be argued that Surprise isn't really a frigate, but a corvette, as it was no larger than the 32 gun Amazon Class from the 1770's! (although a few of that Amazon class did go on to serve well between 1793-1815).

[Guyuti]

Chris,

 

I would like to suggest any vessel relating to the Bolitho Series of Novels by Douglas Reeman writing as Alexander Kent.

 

There is a complete list here :-  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bolitho_novels

 

Regards

 

Guy

[chris watton]

33 minutes ago, Guyuti said:

Chris,

 

I would like to suggest any vessel relating to the Bolitho Series of Novels by Douglas Reeman writing as Alexander Kent.

 

There is a complete list here :-  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bolitho_novels

 

Regards

 

Guy

I have read a few of these books, and they are fine, but not of the same calibre as the Hornblower and Aubrey series, I think. Plus the name of some of the ships is highly questionable - Buzzard for a frigate, or Caligula for a ship of the line! 

[Guyuti]

26 minutes ago, chris watton said:

I have read a few of these books, and they are fine, but not of the same calibre as the Hornblower and Aubrey series, I think. Plus the name of some of the ships is highly questionable - Buzzard for a frigate, or Caligula for a ship of the line! 

?? What books were they in then as I dont remember those names?

 

How about a vessel from the greatest Naval Disaster of it's age when the HMS Association (90), HMS Firebrand (16), HMS Eagle (70) and HMS Romney (50) Foundering on the Isles of Scilly in 1707 with a loss of in excess of 2000 men. Which led to the introduction the longitude Act of 1714.

 

Guy

Edited December 17, 2022 by Guyuti
Addition

[Gregor]

 

How I would love to build Surprise, maybe with a little cut-out to show the orlop – not for the gore, but because it’s an important place in the books (think writing journals undisturbed by ship’s noises, Padeen’s discovery of opium that has an enormous impact of part of the whole story…).

The only ship that’s higher on my wishlist would be HMS Beagle, with captain FitzRoy and a young Darwin discussing on deck...

Gregor

(I know Darwins voyages are post-napoleonic - but the ship was ordered in 1817 and basically from this period. The later additions (rig, deck, metal fittings) it would produce an interesting variant for a Vanguard kit.

Edited December 17, 2022 by Gregor

[glbarlow]

The Surprise is an excellent choice. I am rereading the series now and finding myself wishing I had a better idea of its layout.  Caldercraft/Jotika had for the longest time, years, HMS Surprise as a soon to be released model.  I kept waiting on it, but it never came.  Frigates are far more interesting subjects, I personally have no interest in another ship of the line. I also have no more room for another large model.

[chris watton]

I did actually do a design for a 72nd scale Surprise way back in 2006, but, as with so many other developments, never materialised, instead having to move on to magazine part work fare. (Sigh...). If I do go ahead, the new one would be 64th (of course) and a lot more refined than my original designs. (Didn't have any stern cabin detail)

 

Not interested in Beagle (as there are more than enough kits of that already), but may do a Cherokee Class (Coffin Brig) at some point, and will definitely do a classic Royal Navy 18 gun brig

 

1 hour ago, Guyuti said:

?? What books were they in then as I dont remember those names?

 

How about a vessel from the greatest Naval Disaster of it's age when the HMS Association (90), HMS Firebrand (16), HMS Eagle (70) and HMS Romney (50) Foundering on the Isles of Scilly in 1707 with a loss of in excess of 2000 men. Which led to the introduction the longitude Act of 1714.

 

Guy

Cannot remember the name of the books, they were in audio form, which I listened to when I had my day job.

I have Royal George earmarked, so no 90 gun ship, and if I were to do a 60 or 70, that would be Centurion or an Elizabeth Class from the first half of the 18th Century, and as for a 50, I already have Bristol lined up to fill that gap.

[Edwardkenway]

I don't think you can go wrong with frigates, as with the fleets at the time always more needed.

Concerning  Bolitho/Alexander Kent books, the two ships I'd go for would be HMS Sparrow, a ship rigged sloop of war and HMS Pharalope, a 32gun frigate, I think. 

[JeffT]

I think the Surprise would be a great choice

[chris watton]

OK, HMS Surprise, the Jack Aubrey HMS Surprise, with the 9 pounders and 36 gun frigate main mast is a definite for next year.

[knightyo]

It would also be fun to see something completely different in style, like an ornate Xebec or a ship of an earlier period with all of the carvings, moldings, etc.

 

Alan

[JeffT]

Is that this one?

 

 

[chris watton]

5 minutes ago, JeffT said:

Is that this one?

 

 

Kind of, but that ship is actually a replica of HMS Rose.

[VTHokiEE]

19 minutes ago, knightyo said:

It would also be fun to see something completely different in style, like an ornate Xebec or a ship of an earlier period with all of the carvings, moldings, etc.

Knowing that I’m in a minority, I’d vote the same. I’d love an ancient vessel (something like the Nave Romana would be incredible).

[glbarlow]

Yay, the surprise is Surprise!

[Morgan]

Time to start revising for this one 🫣😲😁

What better reason to re-read the series, but for the revision I recommend this book, I bagged one of the signed limited edition 🤤

 

 

[chris watton]

Just now, Morgan said:

Time to start revising for this one 🫣😲😁

What better reason to re-read the series, but for the revision I recommend this book, I bagged one of the signed limited edition 🤤

 

 

I have that, too!

[Blue Ensign]

1 hour ago, chris watton said:

OK, HMS Surprise, the Jack Aubrey HMS Surprise, with the 9 pounders and 36 gun frigate main mast is a definite for next year.

According to Steel:

The Mainmast at the partners for a 36 gun ship would be 26” ø (10.3mm) at scale.

The Mainmast for a 28 gun ship would be 23⅝” ø (9.4mm) at scale.

The Foremast for a 28 gun ship would be 20⅞” (8.3mm) at scale

On these figures there would be a difference of 2mm in the diameters of the Fore and Main masts on the proposed Surprise.

I would want to be sure that regardless of any historical anecdotes that on the actual model the masts didn’t look out of keeping with each other and spoil the overall effect.

What happens on a full-size version doesn’t always transfer well to a model.

Just saying.

 

B.E.

[garyshipwright]

3 hours ago, chris watton said:

 

 

4 hours ago, chris watton said:

I did actually do a design for a 72nd scale Surprise way back in 2006, but, as with so many other developments, never materialised, instead having to move on to magazine part work fare. (Sigh...). If I do go ahead, the new one would be 64th (of course) and a lot more refined than my original designs. (Didn't have any stern cabin detail)

 

Not interested in Beagle (as there are more than enough kits of that already), but may do a Cherokee Class (Coffin Brig) at some point, and will definitely do a classic Royal Navy 18 gun brig

 

Cannot remember the name of the books, they were in audio form, which I listened to when I had my day job.

I have Royal George earmarked, so no 90 gun ship, and if I were to do a 60 or 70, that would be Centurion or an Elizabeth Class from the first half of the 18th Century, and as for a 50, I already have Bristol lined up to fill that gap.

Hi Chris. I know you posted that you will be doing her in 1/64  but what about 1/48? Would make a heck of a nice model that's for sure. Gary

[ccoyle]

There can be no argument that Surprise would be a hot seller, and of course the Watton household needs to eat, but I will argue every day of the week and twice on Sunday for one of the American sloops-of-war, e.g. Peacock, or the matched set of Shannon & Chesapeake. But any VM kit will be a winner.

[chris watton]

2 minutes ago, garyshipwright said:

 

Hi Chris. I know you posted that you will be doing her in 1/64  but what about 1/48? Would make a heck of a nice model that's for sure. Gary

I think at 64th, it will be a perfect size for most. If I went 48th, it would get very expensive and perhaps too large for most.

[chris watton]

Just now, ccoyle said:

There can be no argument that Surprise would be a hot seller, and of course the Watton household needs to eat, but I will argue every day of the week and twice on Sunday for one of the American sloops-of-war, e.g. Peacock, or the matched set of Shannon & Chesapeake. But any VM kit will be a winner.

I am currently working on an American schooner!

[chris watton]

15 hours ago, Blue Ensign said:

According to Steel:

The Mainmast at the partners for a 36 gun ship would be 26” ø (10.3mm) at scale.

The Mainmast for a 28 gun ship would be 23⅝” ø (9.4mm) at scale.

The Foremast for a 28 gun ship would be 20⅞” (8.3mm) at scale

On these figures there would be a difference of 2mm in the diameters of the Fore and Main masts on the proposed Surprise.

I would want to be sure that regardless of any historical anecdotes that on the actual model the masts didn’t look out of keeping with each other and spoil the overall effect.

What happens on a full-size version doesn’t always transfer well to a model.

Just saying.

 

B.E.

You may be right, and I know Surprise did not have the mast of a 36 until  a later date. As far as I know, when Aubrey was first given command of her, she had a standard main. Perhaps adding the larger mast in the drawings would be a better alternative, then the modeller can make their own choice.

Edited December 18, 2022 by chris watton

[Morgan]

BTW - regarding a possible HMS Centurion - as in Anson, as in circumnavigation of the globe and capturing a Manila Galleon?

 

Gary

[glbarlow]

In the third book (I'm re-reading them) Aubrey replaces the mast with mast for meant for a 36 gun frigate. He is please with the added speed he gets with this and other adjustments of his own design. So if you're building it as Aubrey sailed it in the books, the larger mast is correct.

[chris watton]

1 minute ago, Morgan said:

BTW - regarding a possible HMS Centurion - as in Anson, as in circumnavigation of the globe and capturing a Manila Galleon?

 

Gary

Yes