Grumman F3F-1 and F3F-2 by Landlubber Mike - FINISHED - Accurate Miniatures - 1/48 - PLASTIC - with aftermarket

[Landlubber Mike]

Thanks guys, really appreciate the nice words and advice.

 

In terms of the cockpit interior itself (seat, panels, etc.), do you guys add a clear coat to it?  It's not going to be handled, and large decals won't be applied.  Just wasn't sure if all parts of a model that are exposed should be clear-coated in some way.

[jwvolz]

Mike,

My typical cockpit sequence is:

paint

gloss coat

wash 

flat coat

drybrush

[Landlubber Mike]

Thanks Joe!  After painting, I used Vallejo's acrylic washes which I don't think need to go down on a gloss coat as they aren't enamel or oil based.  I dry brushed a few highlights, but didn't seal with a flat coat.  I ended up gluing in the cockpit last night so might just skip that step.  Good to know that I should do that in the future though.

 

If the cockpit (or other part of the model) is painted a metallic color, would you still spray a flat coat?  These planes were painted aluminum, so to seal the exterior after painting, I was thinking of spraying with a final semi-gloss or satin clear coat.  Matt might dull the aluminum too much, and on the other hand, I'm thinking that gloss would be too shiny.  Semi-gloss/satin might be just right.

[Landlubber Mike]

I was on a roll last night, and glued the fuselage halves together, along with the fuel tank/firewall and intermediate cowl pieces.  The kit instructions say not to glue the cockpit in, but let it free float on some tabs so you can adjust the position when gluing the fuselage together.  Worked fantastic, and fit is very good.  I have a little bit of sanding on one corner of both intermediate cowl pieces where the piece doesn't line up flush to the fuselage, but nothing major.

 

 

I have two more pieces to glue to the fuselage and I'll be done with steps 1-3 of the 15 steps in the instructions.  The rest of the model should come together fairly quickly now, especially that 95% of the fuselage is aluminum. The F3F-1 and F3F-2 were very similar and the kits share three of the four sprues.  The main differences are the engines, intermediate cowl, and the back end of the fuselage have slightly different shapes (on the F3F-1, the instructions say the kit parts are for the F3F-2, and to just sand away a tiny section to convert it to the correct body type).  

 

Even though these are very similar, it's been a little tricky keeping the parts straight.  You certainly gain a lot of efficiencies, but I'm not sure that I will build two similar models at the same time in the future. 

[Canute]

Mike, read EGs F-104 build about his clear coverings over BMF. Some of the hobby formulations may darken your finish. He seems to like the Liquitex varnish.

[Egilman]

Absolutely agree on the Liquitex High Gloss Varnish. It's intended as a long term preservative for finely painted artwork so it doesn't get damaged when on display...... It goes on with a soft sable brush used gently to avoid air bubbles and dries in a couple of hours to a hard shell finish that is absolutely clear. (and doesn't effect the underlying paint, that why it used for serious artwork) It didn't effect the metal powder finish I applied to my test piece. (absolutely clean hands, freshly washed clean hands, leave fingerprints from skin oils on that metal powder finish, if it doesn't effect that it won't effect anything)

 

I understand that it is a perfect surface for decal placement as well..... (but I haven't gotten that far yet)

 

Thanks Ken.....

 

EG

[jwvolz]

3 hours ago, Landlubber Mike said:

Thanks Joe!  After painting, I used Vallejo's acrylic washes which I don't think need to go down on a gloss coat as they aren't enamel or oil based.  I dry brushed a few highlights, but didn't seal with a flat coat.  I ended up gluing in the cockpit last night so might just skip that step.  Good to know that I should do that in the future though.

 

If the cockpit (or other part of the model) is painted a metallic color, would you still spray a flat coat?  These planes were painted aluminum, so to seal the exterior after painting, I was thinking of spraying with a final semi-gloss or satin clear coat.  Matt might dull the aluminum too much, and on the other hand, I'm thinking that gloss would be too shiny.  Semi-gloss/satin might be just right.

Mike,

 

One of the reasons I use a gloss coat even if the paints are compatible is to aid in removal n the areas where you don't want the wash. Flat paint "stains" and darkens and it is harder to remove excess wash. Washes also flow better around details on a glossy surface. 

 

You were fine with no flat coat since you didn't put down a gloss.

 

The painted aluminum aircraft of that era were a lot duller in finish than say a polished natural aluminum late war P-51. The Liquitex is good stuff. I might think satin would be the best final finish. 

[Landlubber Mike]

Thanks guys, really appreciate the tips.  I'm trying to learn all the tricks of the trade - it's been fun so far, but a big learning curve for sure.

[popeye the sailor]

cockpits look great Mike.   it nice to see that the cabane struts are molded to the fuselage........the interplane struts are much easier to put in later.   guess I have the knack of finding kits that are the other way around      very nice job!

[Landlubber Mike]

Over the last few days, I've been slowly adding details to the fuselages and painting some of the smaller details.  Also decanted some Tamiya Camel Yellow to start the yellow wings.

 

I also finished the engines.  I have to say, Accurate Miniatures did a really nice job on these.  The details are very crisp, and they also included PE for the ignition wires.  The white plastic rod is the mount for the propeller, and it's designed to allow the propeller to turn.  A lot of thought went into how Accurate Miniatures produced the sprues, as thus far I have had no sink marks to fix or seam lines to remove.  A lot different of a story from their F4B-4 and P-6E models, which were reboxings of Monogram kits.  Nice to not have to spend a lot of time filling and sanding.

 

 

These were painted using Vallejo paints and washes.  The metal is from Vallejo's Metal Color line (I believe I used White Aluminum for the engines, and Burnt Iron for the F3F-2 engine exhausts.  Then I used Vallejo washes.  I believe I used black wash for the engine pistons, and dark grey for the black and grey areas.  I like adding a dark grey wash to the flat black as it breaks up the color and makes things look more realistic.  After, I sprayed a light coat of Mr. Super semi-gloss clear to seal everything.  I really like the Mr. Super clear sprays.  I used the flat for my F4B-4 and P-6E builds, which went on really thin and without any of the issues you tend to get with the Tamiya paint rattle cans. The semi-gloss worked just as nicely.  I'll have to try the Liquitex High Gloss Varnish that Egilman recommends as well.  The Vallejo Metal Color paints go on so nicely, I want to have some nice shiny birds.

 

[Old Collingwood]

26 minutes ago, Landlubber Mike said:

Over the last few days, I've been slowly adding details to the fuselages and painting some of the smaller details.  Also decanted some Tamiya Camel Yellow to start the yellow wings.

 

I also finished the engines.  I have to say, Accurate Miniatures did a really nice job on these.  The details are very crisp, and they also included PE for the ignition wires.  The white plastic rod is the mount for the propeller, and it's designed to allow the propeller to turn.  A lot of thought went into how Accurate Miniatures produced the sprues, as thus far I have had no sink marks to fix or seam lines to remove.  A lot different of a story from their F4B-4 and P-6E models, which were reboxings of Monogram kits.  Nice to not have to spend a lot of time filling and sanding.

 

 

These were painted using Vallejo paints and washes.  The metal is from Vallejo's Metal Color line (I believe I used White Aluminum for the engines, and Burnt Iron for the F3F-2 engine exhausts.  Then I used Vallejo washes.  I believe I used black wash for the engine pistons, and dark grey for the black and grey areas.  I like adding a dark grey wash to the flat black as it breaks up the color and makes things look more realistic.  After, I sprayed a light coat of Mr. Super semi-gloss clear to seal everything.  I really like the Mr. Super clear sprays.  I used the flat for my F4B-4 and P-6E builds, which went on really thin and without any of the issues you tend to get with the Tamiya paint rattle cans. The semi-gloss worked just as nicely.  I'll have to try the Liquitex High Gloss Varnish that Egilman recommends as well.  The Vallejo Metal Color paints go on so nicely, I want to have some nice shiny birds.

 

How does that top coat work ontop of decals  - any reaction or conditions  to apply it?

 

OC.

[Landlubber Mike]

I don't believe so.  Then again, if I remember correctly, on my prior builds, after applying the decals I added a coat of Future to seal them in, then added washes, then sprayed the flat coat.  For these engines, I painted, applied two tiny decals to the centers, applied the wash directly (no intermediate Future coat), and then sprayed with the semi-gloss.  So in both cases, the decals were covered with something prior to the clear coat and the decals look perfectly fine.  

 

What I don't know is whether applying something enamel or oil based to a decal is likely to cause problems.

 

 

[Javlin]

Some Nice work on those engines Mike.

[lmagna]

Great looking engines Mike. It's hard to tell they are 1/48th scale.

[Landlubber Mike]

I've made some good progress on the F3Fs the past couple of weeks.  The bodies are generally assembled, minus the wings and cowls and some detail parts which I will paint separately:

 

 

 

I've got everything primed and ready for paint.  The assembly was fairly straightforward, with very little filler needed.  Couple of quirks as other builders have noticed.  The bomb bay doors essentially get slid in between the two A frames for the landing gear, turned 90 degrees, then turned up and popped into place.  Was not easy!  Eventually figured out how and where to file some tabs and they slid in much easier.  The second and probably tougher part of the build was attaching the landing gear itself.  At the wheel section, there was a groove to fit against a bar at the bottom A frame, and a few millimeters above, a small hole to fit a tiny stub on the upper A frame corner.  At the other end of the frame, there is sort of a triangular depression to fit against the frame of the plane.  Everything is under tension to keep the A frames properly spaced, but none of these three contact points had any way of locking the landing gear against the contact point.  A huge pain!  Had to use CA to get the bottom points relatively secure, and when almost dried, glue the top.  I broke one of interior rods of one of the A frames and had to scratch a new one - thankfully I didn't need it to apply tension to get the landing gear oriented correctly.  For something I thought would take 20 minutes before bed, took me close to 3 hours for the two pairs.  Lots of not-so-nice words and little sleep...

 

I think I've decided to go with a red cowl/belly band/chevron with the Felix the Cat insignia for the F3F-1 as seen on the box art, and the VF-7 insignia (is it a a wasp?  ant?) with black tail and blue cowl/belly markings.

 

 

[Landlubber Mike]

Anyone have any experience using Tamiya spray primer over Vallejo acrylics?  I'm a little nervous after applying Tamiya's rattle can yellow paint over some errant black Vallejo paint as touch ups - the Tamiya paint tended to dissolve the Vallejo paint and essentially made the yellow look dirty.  It could have been the fact that I was mistakenly using Tamiya's polycarbonate paints for RC models (the PS line, and not the TS line as I should have), which might run hotter than the TS line.

 

Instead of using decals for the belly bands, I'm planning on painting them.  Right now, I've primed the various parts with Mr. Finisher 1500, and I'm planning on painting as follows:

 

-- For the yellow top wings of the two models, I'm planning to spray Tamiya white primer to give a good base, and then spray the rattle can Tamiya camel yellow.  Then for the chevrons, I'll tape out the outline, re-prime with Tamiya white primer, and then spray the red or blue Vallejo colors as applicable.

-- For the red and blue markings for the cowl, belly band, and tail, I'm also planning to spray Tamiya white primer as the base, followed by Vallejo acrylics for the two colors.  

-- For the aluminum finish for the bodies, I will start with Vallejo gloss black primer, and then use Vallejo Metal Color.

-- For the black tail on the F3F-2, I'll just use the Vallejo gloss black primer.  

 

What I might do is start with the yellow, red and blue colors, which means I'll be applying the Tamiya white primer followed by the applicable colors.  For the belly bands, I'll go slightly wider, and after priming and painting the color, maybe I'll seal with Future.  Then I'll mask the belly band at the appropriate width, and spray Vallejo gloss black primer, followed by Vallejo Metal.  I've read that the Vallejo Metal sometimes doesn't mask too well, so after trying to map this all out, I think this is the right way to go as I won't have to worry about spraying Tamiya on top of the Vallejo.

 

Any thoughts of course would be very welcome!

[Old Collingwood]

Looking very tidy Mike.

 

OC.

[popeye the sailor]

love the looks.......they are so cool!     I'm not familiar with acrylics.......every time I mix paints,  I get crape

[CDW]

On 7/6/2020 at 4:14 PM, Landlubber Mike said:

Anyone have any experience using Tamiya spray primer over Vallejo acrylics?  I'm a little nervous after applying Tamiya's rattle can yellow paint over some errant black Vallejo paint as touch ups - the Tamiya paint tended to dissolve the Vallejo paint and essentially made the yellow look dirty.  It could have been the fact that I was mistakenly using Tamiya's polycarbonate paints for RC models (the PS line, and not the TS line as I should have), which might run hotter than the TS line.

 

Instead of using decals for the belly bands, I'm planning on painting them.  Right now, I've primed the various parts with Mr. Finisher 1500, and I'm planning on painting as follows:

 

-- For the yellow top wings of the two models, I'm planning to spray Tamiya white primer to give a good base, and then spray the rattle can Tamiya camel yellow.  Then for the chevrons, I'll tape out the outline, re-prime with Tamiya white primer, and then spray the red or blue Vallejo colors as applicable.

-- For the red and blue markings for the cowl, belly band, and tail, I'm also planning to spray Tamiya white primer as the base, followed by Vallejo acrylics for the two colors.  

-- For the aluminum finish for the bodies, I will start with Vallejo gloss black primer, and then use Vallejo Metal Color.

-- For the black tail on the F3F-2, I'll just use the Vallejo gloss black primer.  

 

What I might do is start with the yellow, red and blue colors, which means I'll be applying the Tamiya white primer followed by the applicable colors.  For the belly bands, I'll go slightly wider, and after priming and painting the color, maybe I'll seal with Future.  Then I'll mask the belly band at the appropriate width, and spray Vallejo gloss black primer, followed by Vallejo Metal.  I've read that the Vallejo Metal sometimes doesn't mask too well, so after trying to map this all out, I think this is the right way to go as I won't have to worry about spraying Tamiya on top of the Vallejo.

 

Any thoughts of course would be very welcome!

Always test on scrap plastic first. Make sure to lay down the 1st pass of lacquer very light. A heavy, wet first coat will present problems for sure.

[Landlubber Mike]

Thanks for the tip Craig.  Sorry, didn't realize you had commented.

 

I made a bit of progress the last few days and pretty much have almost everything painted up except for the aluminum bodies of the fuselage.  I did go ahead and spray the belly bands first, as I've heard that Vallejo Metals don't like to be taped.  I used the Tamiya white spray primer which went over the Mr. Finisher 1500 very nicely.  No issues with spitting, etc. from the rattle can.  For the white tail of the F3F-1, I used Tamiya insignia white straight from the rattle can and also had no issues.

 

I'm also happy to report that using Tamiya's TS Camel Yellow (decanted and straight with no thinner through the airbrush) went on very nicely.  Much better experience than mistakenly using the PS rattle can (for polycarbonate RC models) on my last builds, which needed a number of layers to cover the gray plastic, and tended to spit.  

 

I'm taking my time between painting steps to make sure everything cures at least 24 hours before moving on.  I noticed that the Vallejo Glossy Black primer needs at least that amount of time as it tends to remain a bit tacky unlike the Mr. Finisher and Tamiya primers which dry to the touch very quickly.  Unlike the last couple of planes where I assumed everything then tried to mask and paint, this time I'm painting the different colored parts separately, and then will assemble.  It wasn't particularly fun trying to mask all the parts, especially when I had glued things like the fin stabilizers.  It sounds like the remaining parts should fit cleanly together (that's generally been my impression of this kit so far minus the top of the fuselage), so fingers crossed.

[Landlubber Mike]

Here's a question - for the US insignia decals, is it worth painting white disks onto the top of the yellow wings so that the yellow doesn't show through the white part of the insignia?  I noticed on my last pair of models that there was a slight yellowing, which was ok because I weathered the planes a bit.  For these, I might try to keep them bright and shiny so I'd like the white to be nice and bright.

 

Any suggestions on how to do this?  I did find a Montex set of masks that allow you to paint the insignias.  I might try that, though I only could locate one set so would only be able to paint the insignias on one of the planes.  Not sure I want to necessarily go that route as I would have to paint six insignias per plane - two on the fuselage, two on the bottom of the lower wings, and two on the tops of the yellow wings.

 

 

[Egilman]

36 minutes ago, Landlubber Mike said:

For these, I might try to keep them bright and shiny so I'd like the white to be nice and bright.

Two way to do this... the first you already guessed. pait a white underlying disc.... the other, a white disc decal with the insignias overlayed on it....

 

My experience, it's required on a yellowbird....

[Landlubber Mike]

Thanks man, really appreciate it.  I was mistaken - I have two Montex sets, and the Montex sets also have stencils to add numbering to the plane belly.  So, maybe I'll try painting the insignias and numbering, leaving the decals for the squadron markings and the tiny identifiers on the tail.  It seems there are those out there that prefer to paint insignias and other markings, so I might as well try it out and get some practice.

[Landlubber Mike]

Well it's been a month, but I've slowly made some progress on the F3Fs.  On one of the models, I dropped the model maybe 3" to the table, and one of the landing gears became disengaged and with one of the support breaking.  The kit has you insert a piece and then flip it 90 degrees and then 180 degrees which helps put pressure to keep the landing gear and supports at the right angle.  However, there's enough tension that dropping it can be problematic as it was in my case.  The landing gear also only has a slight depression at the top where it's supposed connect to the fuselage body - it is very hard to keep that in place while glue sets given all the tension with the lower pieces.  Eventually I got things fixed - required some epoxy and cutting out and replacing a couple of the supports so all is good until I drop it again. 🙄

 

I also had to work through some issues with the belly bands - first time I painted them, they were a touch too narrow.  I tried to repaint, but I sprayed too heavy and lost detail. 😡  So, I had to strip a bunch of the paint off and try again.  Time consuming on the red because I realized that if you paint red, the underlying color will affect how the red turns out (at least using Vallejo Model Air).  So, because I wanted a brighter red color, I used Tamiya's white primer straight from the rattle can as the base coat, and then painted the band on top.

 

Tip to pass along - Tamiya's Lacquer Thinner is great at removing Vallejo acrylic paints!  Dip a Q-tip in, rub a little, and it comes off fairly well.  

 

To redo the bands, I made them wider the second time around, given that I would eventually be using gloss black primer as the undercoat for the aluminum body.  Stupid me, why didn't I do that sooner?  Would have saved me days of time (I've been trying to wait at least 24 hours for the paints to cure before masking).  Speaking of masking, I found using Tamiya's white curve masking tape to mark the edges worked very well.  Then I used the Tamiya yellow tape to mask the remaining items.  Then I used Vallejo Gloss Black followed by Vallejo Metal Color Aluminum - am very happy with how things are looking thus far!  Need to do a few touch ups on the red and a bit on the aluminum, but the colors are beautiful.  The Vallejo Metal Color series really puts on a gorgeous metallic color.

 

 

 

 

For next steps, I need to figure out if I want to paint the identifying numbers along the belly band using the Montex stencils.  For the F3F-2, there is also a small US insignia above the landing gear that I can paint using the Montex stencils.  I could instead use decals, but I've already tried out the stencils to add the US insignia to the wings and and am fairly satisfied with the results.  It's a pain though, as you first paint the white disk, then add a stencil for the star in the middle while adding the blue background, and then add a third stencil to add the red center dot.  The Montex stencils worked fairly well, but did get some color bleeding under the second two stencils.  I used a toothpick to scrape off a bunch of the blue and red errant paint - worked fairly well, but I still need to touch stuff up.  Makes me think I might have just been better using decals from the beginning, but thought it would be a good learning experience.  

 

Otherwise, I've got pretty much everything but the canopies painted at this point, so I'm on the home stretch.  Thanks for looking in!

[Old Collingwood]

They are looking really sweet.

 

OC.

[mtaylor]

Looks good, Mike.  Even the hard landing damage isn't visible.

[popeye the sailor]

the silver looks really good........you must use gloves         look'in forward to see the wings.

[Landlubber Mike]

I haven't used gloves, but good idea - I better start!  

[CDW]

It's been quite a while since I last checked in, but wanted to say your models are coming along just beautifully, Mike. You are really getting the hang of this quickly! These will add a lot of color and flash to your model collection.

[Landlubber Mike]

42 minutes ago, CDW said:

It's been quite a while since I last checked in, but wanted to say your models are coming along just beautifully, Mike. You are really getting the hang of this quickly! These will add a lot of color and flash to your model collection.

Thanks for the kind words!  I feel like I still have a long way to go up the learning curve, but have greatly benefited from folks like you and others here who have graciously posted your tips and experiences and have answered my many questions.  I couldn’t thank you all enough.