Ripping Planks - what I've learned from others

[glbarlow]

Ripping planks

 

I’ve been asked to do this a couple of times, I’ve been hesitant because there are undoubtedly many ways to do it and many people better at it than I am. If you prefer a different way, then you should do it that way. I can only say this way works for me. For example, Jim Byrnes tutorial is pinned to the top of this section.

 

So, here is what I’ve learned about ripping planks from milled sheets. To be very clear, it’s what I’ve learned from asking questions, seeking help, and learning from others. I’ve adopted and amalgamated all that input into my own technique. That I can successfully turn milled sheets into planks comes from the gift of knowledge from many sources but especially @Chuck Passaro, @Rustyj, Jeff of HobbyMill fame, and from the guy that provides the perfect tool, Jim Byrnes of https://www.byrnesmodelmachines.com  

 

 

I’m not going to insult anyone’s intelligence discussing shop safety. If you build models and own sharp tools, machine or otherwise you know how to use them and what to wear to keep your fingers and eyes. So, do those things if you do anything I describe here. This is my disclaimer.

 

First the equipment. In my opinion there is no more essential and no better tool for ship modeling than the Byrnes saw. Far more than ripping planks, it is a precision instrument. There are plenty of posts on MSW about this saw, so go read those and then buy one. This saw is without peer, in my opinion. Please hold your replies on why another model saw is right for you. I respect your choice.

 

Next is the blade - I’m sure there is more than one that will do the job, but all the people I have asked, including Jim Byrnes, say the same thing. The Thurston I-292, .030 kerf slitter blade. I understand Thurston is out of business, I’m sure there are equivalents if you can’t find one.

 

Here’s what I use and how I do it.

 

 

I start by cleaning the table and the blade with denatured or isopropyl alcohol. There are other methods, but keep the blade clean however you do it. I also on occasion wax the table with common car wax. I cut planks between the blade and the fence using the tall fence accessory from Byrnes.

 

 

Probably the biggest breakthrough was Chuck’s coaching to stand to the side of the saw, not behind it. This photo shows my orientation to the saw when I cut. It’s amazing how much more natural it is and more control I obtained from this simple change.

 

I use sacrificial push sticks. Just a square length of wood with a notch cut in it that I can push right through the blade. When it crumbles, I cut a new one.

 

The side block is just a piece of wood. I glued the two pieces on top for a little more of a grip, it also serves as a finger guard. I sanded the side facing the milled stock square and as smooth as I could get it. The optimal length is 5 inches, Jeff describes why in a tutorial he wrote, I’ll just say it is the right length.

 

The last bit of “equipment” is an ordinary clamp, and another reason for the tall Byrnes fence. 

 

 

 

 With all this in hand I can start cutting. I start by setting the blade height so that the teeth at the high point are fully exposed above the wood being cut at the high point, but just barely. I can see the full depth of the top teeth above the wood, but just. With my blade, that equates to about 1/16th above the sheet. The point is to have the blade teeth at the peak just clear of the wood. There are technical reasons for this, mine is that this is where it cuts best. Don’t set it too high and adjust the blade every time to whatever thickness of wood you’re cutting. This is true of cross cuts as well.

 

I set the fence distance to the blade to the thickness of the plank I want using an existing plank, digital calipers, ruler, or rip gauge. Sometimes this ends up being trial and error, I cut the first one and adjust accordingly. I set the fence at my desired width then fully tighten the front fence knob on the fence. Then, ever so slightly, push the rear of the fence away and tighten the rear fence screw to provide back taper. Push too much and the plank thickness won’t be consistent, too little and you get the ever-feared kickback. How much? I use the highly accurate measurement of ‘just a tad.’ It really takes just the lightest amount. Jim Byrnes suggests .005 inch, that’s not much.

 

 

 

The side block, push stick, and top clamp in combination allow me to: Hold the sheet against the fence with side pressure (and not be tempted to use that hand to help push the wood, don’t do that, push only with the push stick), hold the sheet down on the table close to the blade, and push the sheet all the way through. I set the wood just behind the blade, use the clamp to press the wood down using the fence. I position the side block so that it covers the back of half of the blade and the rest holding the wood against the fence. As the sheet nears the end, I slide the block forward along with it as the last of it goes through the blade.

 

This all comes with practice. The side block is a good example, I want just enough side pressure to keep the wood tight to the fence, too little and too much create problems - firm, but not forced, is the best I can describe it. You know if it’s too firm because you can’t push the wood, you know it was too light when your wood is not the thickness you measured. You know you weren’t consistent throughout the cut when you have one thickness at one side of the plank and something more or less than that at the other. It’s a feel thing you only get by doing it.

 

I start the saw and push with the push stick oriented so, regardless of the width of stock I’m cutting, it remains more or less centered on the blade. I think of it as pushing both the plank being cut and the stock through together even as they separate.

 

When this all works in concert the plank goes right through the blade and is pushed out the far side. I then reset everything, especially the clamp, for the next plank.

 

I always keep checking to make I’m getting a consistent cut. Any number of things can create a variance. Too much or too little side pressure, Not keeping it clamped to the table with the top clamp (it will rise up on occasion), too much relief on the rear side of the fence. However, once I get going, I can rip off any number of consistent planks that are model worthy with little to no waste.

 

I couldn’t do any of this six months ago, I would desperately try to find already cut planks if I wanted to do something other than the kit provided wood. Once I made the effort to ask for help, so plentiful and so freely given here on MSW, and started cutting I found out it’s not that hard.  I was pretty proud of myself when Chuck’s directions for Cheerful called for wood cut to a thickness of 1/32nd of an inch, and I made that cut. Once I did that, I knew I was indeed a plank ripper.

 

One last time. I know there are many ways, many other practices, and many expert wood workers on this site. This way works for me and I hope it helps some of you. 

 

Oh, and practice shop safety.

 

 

 

[Gregory]

 

40 minutes ago, glbarlow said:

The Thurston I-292, .030 kerf slitter blade. I understand Thurston is out of business, I’m sure there are equivalents if you can’t find one.

FWIW, I've used the .020 and .030 from Malco with very good results..

 

The pricing is competitive but they currently have a $100 minimum order..

[Chuck Seiler]

3 hours ago, glbarlow said:

This photo shows my orientation to the saw when I cut.

I don't see a photo.

[Chuck Seiler]

Do you have any rule of thumb for length of plank stock?  HobbyMIll stock was 24" if  recall.  I always had problems and had to lop off 6 or more inches before ripping.  Syren stock is shorter.

[glbarlow]

49 minutes ago, Chuck Seiler said:

I don't see a photo.

Thanks for pointing that out. - they didn't load the first time, I've added them.

[glbarlow]

50 minutes ago, Chuck Seiler said:

length of plank stock

Only that I think the longer it is the harder it is to cut consistently. 24 inch, like Jeff sold, is the max for me. I'm using 15" length stock from Syren for Cheerful and don't have a problem. 

[mtaylor]

Well done, Glenn.   There's nothing wrong, IMO wrong with cutting the length down to wear you're comfortable with it.  I've done 24" but really don't like doing it.  For one thing I have to move the table the saw is one out from the wall.  And yea, it doesn't take much with the long to get the cut off.

 

 

3 hours ago, Gregory said:

 

FWIW, I've used the .020 and .030 from Malco with very good results..

 

The pricing is competitive but they currently have a $100 minimum order..

That's true.. but it's never seemed hard to do to meet the minimum as I'm like a kid in a candy store.

 

[bartley]

With the longer stock all I find I need to do is to provide a bit more support at the end of a table.  The problem is the longer plank tilts up as it goes off the end of the table.  I just have a block of wood the same height as the table which supports the plank as it comes off the table.

 

John

[mtaylor]

22 minutes ago, bartley said:

With the longer stock all I find I need to do is to provide a bit more support at the end of a table.  The problem is the longer plank tilts up as it goes off the end of the table.  I just have a block of wood the same height as the table which supports the plank as it comes off the table.

 

John

 

That works if your bench has enough space behind the saw.  I just stand to the side... push the wood in, put my hand under the output side (not above....no, no, no) and shift to push stick when end of the end (uncut end) reaches the saw table.  

 

There's probably lots of ways to do this.  Someone around here has a small "table" that sits at the back side of their saw.

[RichardG]

Since the scale length of planks is almost never 24", I don't see the need to make life difficult by trying to cut planks that long.

 

I recently bought some boxwood which is 36" long. My Byrnes saw is on order (). I'm planning to cut the boxwood into shorter pieces before any ripping. At this point even 15" is a bit long for my needs.

[Moxis]

Quite often I am cutting planks of 50" length or more with my Proxxon, and have no problems at all to do that. I am supporting the stock sideways against fence with a block of wood as described here, and with another hand pushing the stock through. My blade is a Proxxon one with carbide tipped teeth and 1,6 mm kerf. After a little practice everything goes quite smoothly.

[glbarlow]

I doubt many models need anything longer than 24.”  For me the big objective is getting every plank neatly the thickness I want it to be, that’s where the technique helps me most. 

[Moxis]

Usually I scratch build models of 45...47" of length, therefore needing planks of 50" to be able to use one plank from bow to stern.

[bartley]

Interesting Glenn,

 

When I innocently posted this photo in my log last year:

 

I got lots of PM's about how dangerous it was.

 

Here is one of my responses:

 

"Yes, You are correct.  this is not the recommended way but many people use this technique and I am not an experienced user of table saws either so was a bit concerned . So I asked Jim Byrnes about this and he replied that ripping between the blade and the fence was the way to go . Apparently there is a very small offset at the rear of the fence to minimize the chances of kickback.

 

I used a block of wood on the left hand side behind the blade to push the billet against the fence and then used a push stick once the billet was on the table.  There was no evidence of any kick back in the forty odd planks that I cut.  Of course you don't need to move the fence if you do it this way and so I imagine the reproducibility is better.  Incidentally, Chuck does it this way and he must have cut tens of thousands of planks."

 

 

John

 

[Chuck]

Yupp,  thats how I do it.  I dont use a push stick or any blocks.  I just use my hands.  Maybe some would see this as unsafe but i feel I get more control actually with my hands touching the sheet being milled.  For me its the safer way to go.  
 

With thinner sheets....like 1/32” sheets where I am ripping 1/32” x 1/32” strips,  I will use two or three clamps on the fence to keep the wood down on the table.  The thin sheets want to bend and buckle and more clamps seem to do the trick as a hold down.
 

Its really not hard to do and just takes a bit of practice getting comfortable.  

[glbarlow]

1 hour ago, Chuck said:

use two or three clamps on the fence

 Using additional clamps is good information to remember.  I know how much good just adding the one helped me. I don’t do it often enough to get comfortable using just my hands. 

[glbarlow]

On 8/18/2020 at 1:08 AM, bartley said:

this is not the recommended way

According to who...  The names I cited at the top of my post are all the references I need for it being my recommended way, not to mention it works for me.  But as I said, there is always going to be other people with other ways that think theirs is best, doesn’t mean it’s the “right way” nor would I say it’s the “wrong way,” it’s just a choice.

[druxey]

Using one's hands, although potentially dangerous, gives one a better 'feel' of how stock is feeding. I often rip two thirds the way through, then flip the board over to complete the cut so that my hands never get close to the blade. Still have all ten fingers!

[glbarlow]

On 8/18/2020 at 7:57 AM, druxey said:

gives one a better 'feel'

I’d suggest it gives “some” a better feel.  I discovered the side block gave me a better feel, Again these are choices, I shared mine.  I’d find flipping the board a good opportunity to mess up the cut.  
 

Options and alternatives are good, but none is necessarily better or worse.  Adapting to whatever works for each of us individuals is the key. 

[DelF]

Excellent description of how you use the Byres saw Glenn. I've had mine about a year now but I'm still learning how best to use it and I'm definitely going to adopt one or two of your tips - especially the wood block you use to keep the work snug against the fence. 

 

One point I wasn't sure about. I knew from Jim's instruction sheet that you are supposed to tighten the front fence knob first, then the back. However I thought the 0.005" relief was built into the fence - I didn't realise you had to push the back end of the fence to achieve that offset. Or have I misunderstood something?

 

Thanks again for a useful tutorial.

 

Derek

[Bob Cleek]

IMHO That guy in the video has his blade way too high for cutting 3/4" stock. Scary high. Don't go by me, though. "Your mileage may vary."

[glbarlow]

2 hours ago, DelF said:

However I thought the 0.005" relief was built into the fence

Thanks Derek, I'm glad you found it helpful.

 

Opinions vary on whether it's built in or not - or on some models and not others. I can tell you on mine (which I've had a number of years now) I'd get kick back if I don't. And for what it's worth it was Jim himself that made this suggestion to me. I can't stress enough that it's just the smallest of amount before tightening the back screw.

[MEDDO]

I know @kurtvd19 had made one of those "cut outside the blade" jigs and showed it at one of the recent NRG conferences.  Seemed like it would work well.

[kurtvd19]

A problem with cutting planks - or anything thin - between the blade and the fence is the rotation of the blade will send it back at the operator with the slightest amount of pinch or a twist of the cut piece.  On big saws this has injured operators severely as well as killed some.  I don't think anybody has to worry about a fatal injury from our model saws but don't think this can't injure you.  Using a push stick helps cancel this out but one chews up a lot of push sticks when doing thin strips because the push stick has to be real thin when doing real thin planks.  If you have ever had a push stick hit by the blade tooth you know the kind of shock that can be transmitted to your hand. 

 

It can all be avoided when using a tool to the left of the blade so there is nothing adjacent to the cut piece and it can fall away from the blade rather than come back at you and it's easier to use a push stick when one is pushing on the thicker part of the sheet.

 

This is something that is used with full size table saws but the fixtures/tools that work on the big saws will not work on our small saws.  I adapted the idea to a fixture I use on my Byrnes saws. 

The fixture is set to the left of the blade as shown above (Lefties you probably set your fence to the left of the blade so when I say left or right do the opposite).   Measure where to place the fixture as shown below - measuring from the blade to the tip of the fixture for the thickness you want for the strips.  With the sheet material moved into contact with the fixture on the left and the fence on the right.  Lock the fixture down.  This only locks the gauge part to the aluminum piece that fits into the groove on the saw table.  I cut the aluminum to be a tight fit that still slides back and forth within the groove until I tighten it a bit more and the aluminum piece locks into the groove - notice the slit in the length of the aluminum piece - there is a counter-bore on the underside so the flat head machine screw makes the edges spread a bit wider when the screw is fully tightened.

 

Move the fixture back towards you so there is a gap between the leading edge of the blade and the fixture as shown above and fully tighten the locking screw as described above.  Turn the saw on and use a push stick to push the wide sheet material to cut the strip.  When the strip is cut, it will fall to the left of the blade, move it out of the way and then pick up the sheet material and place it between the fixture and the fence - forward of the blade.  Move the fence over to bump the sheet material up to the fixture and cut the next strip.

 

On the Byrnes saw the thickness of each strip will be as close to exactly the same thickness as you can ever get.  When I started cutting strips this was I measured each strip to see the variation - if any - and found that +/- 0.0005" maximum was what I was getting.  Wood can change that amount or more from day to day with humidity changes in the shop.  A bit of practice on how tight to make the fit between the fixture and the fence is needed but by the time one cuts a dozen strips the variation will be what I listed or less.

 

The fixture shown below was my first generation tool that I used for several years before I made the one out of Plexiglas.

 

The first generation fixture below

 

 

[bartley]

6 hours ago, glbarlow said:

According to who...  The names I cited at the top of my post are all the references I need for it being the best way, not to mention it works for me.  But as I said, there is always going to be other people with other ways that think theirs is best, doesn’t mean it’s the “right way” nor would I say it’s the “wrong way,” it’s just a choice.

Glenn,

 

A year ago I was new to table saws myself.  If you read books or watch videos on the operation of full-sized table saws you will find that they all recommend that the safe way to avoid kickback is to cut thin strips on the outside of the blade.  this was why I was concerned initially. but after the recommendations of Jim, Chuck and Jefff from HobbyMill I began doing the way you do it with some slight variations in the exact technique and have never had a problem. An important point is never yo but any sideways pressure on the back (exit end] of the blade.  So for example a push stick must be pushed straight through with no sideways pressure.

 

John

 

[glbarlow]

On 8/18/2020 at 2:22 PM, kurtvd19 said:

- between the blade and the fence is the rotation of the blade will send it back at the operator with the slightest amount of pinch or a twist of the cut piece.

The point of standing to the side and the slight release to the rear of the fence prevents this from being an issue. I know or care nothing about full size table saws or even other hobby saws. I know the method I described works for me with my Byrnes saw. I use push sticks made from basswood, they are not super thin and they go right through the blade without problem and without splintering.  I can make a new one in about 30 seconds. 
 

There will always be other opinions and practices, those are not any more right or wrong than any other. I do wish others would respect there are multiple ways that work and not assume only they are right.   
 

If it works for you do it your way, this way works for me.  Since it’s based on others with more skill than me, including the maker of the saw itself, I’m comfortable with it being my way.

[VTHokiEE]

I’m grateful for the post and the comments. I have my Byrnes saw on order and I appreciate the time taken to explain this method, as well as some of the other ideas. I’ve barely used a table saw before so all of this is very helpful.

[mtaylor]

Glenn,

Don't regret this.  Excellent topic and presentation.

 

 

BTW,  here's another way similar but different from Kurt's and some others.   I use a short tall fence over my long short fence.   I then set the tall one such that it is about halfway (usually less) down the blade.   Kickback is basically a thing that never happens with this.  Usually push sticks on sort pieces and fingers on big ones.  

[glbarlow]

40 minutes ago, VTHokiEE said:

I appreciate the time taken to explain this method

Thank you! For recognizing that's what I'm doing. I appreciate your comment.

[Ryland Craze]

Thank you Glenn for your post and comments on how you use your Byrnes saw.  Up until you posted, my main reference was the article that Jeff Hayes had posted on his HobbyMill site, which you have referenced.  With the detailed information that you have posted, I feel much more confident that I can now safely use my Byrnes saw to mill my wood.  I have the Cheerful lined up for my next build, but I lacked the confidence to use my Byrnes saw for what it was designed for.  Your post has changed that and I plan to use your techniques to mill my wood.  This information is what I have been looking for and I appreciate you taking the time and effort to explain your milling techniques.