US 6” gun by RGL - FINISHED - Panzer Concepts

[RGL]

I need to do something different, this 6” gun is a 3D print from Panzer Concepts in the US. As usual I’ve overcapitalised and bought 2 Holt tractors for it. I gave away my Yamato and the bloke didn’t need the base so I thought this would be perfect for it 

[RGL]

Now some references 

[RGL]

And the tractors 

[Egilman]

19 hours ago, RGL said:

Now some references 

It's a very nice model...

 

The Holt 75 was one of the prime movers for it, the Holt 150 and the Standard "B" Liberty Truck were the others

 

The Holt 75 pulled everything the AEF had at one time or another, your images show the Mk VI 8" howitzer the GPF 155mm gun and the 9.2" howitzer in it's triple train....

 

It's a shame the 6" never got to be used in actual combat...

 

Going to be an excellent build....

 

I'm in... (wouldn't miss it for the world)

Edited February 8, 2023 by Egilman

[Old Collingwood]

Oh  Hello,   good  to  see  you  away  from  wet related  objects  -   good  to  see  you in  the  alternative section   -  following with  interest  Greg.

 

OC.

[RGL]

The configuration is really cool, as one tractor rows the barrel and the second Carrie’s the frame 

[king derelict]

This is going to be spectacular

Alan

[CDW]

Looking forward!

[Toolmaker]

Lovely 3D printing detail and the opportunities for a diorama seem endless. I’m looking forward to seeing what you do with this beauty.

Thank you

Paul

[RGL]

I’m sorry,  it whilst it’s massive it’s pretty cool 

[Egilman]

17 hours ago, RGL said:

The configuration is really cool, as one tractor rows the barrel and the second Carrie’s the frame 

I'm sure they did it that way when necessary, but the standard train for the 6" 1905 Gun was the Carriage on its limber pulled by the Holt tractor or a Standard "B" 5 ton truck with the Barrel transport wagon on it's limber hooked up to the carriage while carrying the gun barrel.... The second tractor or truck would be hauling a couple of caissons and the tool/repair wagon hooked as a train as well... They would then have a couple of two or three ton trucks to haul the crew... The FWD or the Nash would be a good period piece to represent this.... The Officers were usually riding in a White command (reconnaissance) car.... There were other pieces included in the train as well but not too many pics of them out there and they would have to be scratch built, (the forge trailer, the gun director trailer and parts trailer....

 

An artillery train for a full battery would consist of over 50 vehicles to haul four guns with all their accoutrements... A full artillery battalion would be over 250 vehicles for 12-16 guns.... Only four vehicles we had could haul the heavy gun trains, the Holt 75 & 150 tractors, the Standard "B" 5 ton Truck and the Mack AC 5 ton or ten ton.... 

 

This is according to the US Army Manual of Artillery dated November 1918...  Just after the armistice.... I have a copy of it if you would like it...

 

EG

[RGL]

Yes please. My plan is to tow it in this configuration as it looks good, using 2 holt’s 

[Egilman]

1 hour ago, RGL said:

Yes please. My plan is to tow it in this configuration as it looks good, using 2 holt’s 

Excellent!

I'll also add the 1920 version as well...

That will give you an idea of what we had at the armistice and then three years later when we adopted the best of such equipment as standard issue and disposed of the rest...

 

I think you will do this piece justice.... They went overseas in dark navy grey overall, and in the midst of the battalion getting trained they were being painted in the standard pattern agreed upon by the allies of the time, Dirt Brown, (dark kahki) Medium Green (British Army Green in irregular splotches) and the resulting splotches bordered by 4" black stripes.... and of course everything that touched the ground was splattered in muted mud brown liquid with chunks of sticky mud stuck to everything on and around the underbelly.... {chuckle} if anyone can do it justice you can brother...

 

Here's an example...

 

They are both 6" naval guns the front one is the 1905 on the M1917 carriage depicted in the kit with the standard camo applied, the rear gun is a 6" M1903 naval gun on the same carriage in it's shipping paint of dark Navy Grey...

 

This is going to be a fantastic build...

1918 Handbook of Ordanace Data.pdf Handbook of artillery including mobile, anti-aircraft and trench materiel 1920.pdf

Edited February 8, 2023 by Egilman

[Baker]

Nice models. It will be a pleasure to follow. 

 

[Canute]

Looking forward to this build. I'm in.

[RGL]

So I got a lot of warping but once I got my head around what I need to do I but the bullet and made a start. This set is so cool. 

[Egilman]

1 hour ago, RGL said:

once I got my head around what I need to do

Yep, hot water soak and light persuasion usually brings it back into shape....

 

Nice start....

[Canute]

Why did they move this in 2 pieces? Was this due to overall weight and pulling capacity of these tow vehicles? Other guns moved as one,unit, didn't they?

[Egilman]

11 hours ago, Canute said:

Was this due to overall weight and pulling capacity of these tow vehicles? Other guns moved as one,unit, didn't they?

Short answer is kinda, they had the towing capacity for sure, the 10 ton & 20 ton holt tractors, The 5 & 10 ton Macks  and the 5 Ton Standard B truck that could pull anything mostly it was cause the wheels on the carriages couldn't stand up to off road towing and they were predominantly non split trail carriages... (which were much lighter than a standard carriage)

 

The light guns did move as one unit but still used caissons and limbers for mobility... The 9.2" howitzer broke down into three loads, the 8" Mk VI & VII as well the 240mm French Howitzer was three loads... The two PDF's I posted to Greg on the artillery earlier in the thread breaks this down in detail...

 

In essence this was the period where they were transitioning from horse drawn to mechanized... At the start of the war they still hauled most of the artillery with horse teams.... In fact I'm going to do a horse team gun to go with my WWI artillery collection... Probably a French 75 in US service....

[CDW]

I took some photos of this massive shore battery that’s been on display here in my hometown all my life. If I remember correctly, it’s an 8 inch gun. The sheer size and weight of these old guns is incredible.

 

 

[Roger Pellett]

This project really puts into perspective the enormous amount of fire power that could be packed into a WWI era Dreadnought Battleship.  A battleship’s secondary armament might include 8-12 of the slightly smaller 5in guns in addition to it’s 12-16in main armament.

[wefalck]

Heavy and siege artillery pieces were usually broken down into several loads, as not only towing-capacity was limited before the around the mid-1930s, but also the load-bearing capacity of roads and bridges, not talking about moving them across fields.

 

The Austrians had a 38 cm siege howitzer designed in 1916, which was broken down into four loads:

Barrel 38 t, carriage 33 t, and two lower carriage/foundation trucks of around 37 t each. It took 8 to 20 hours to prepare the foundation in soft ground and several days on rock. Assembly of the gun took 6 to 8 hours. One of them is preserved in the Army Museum (Heeresgeschichtliche Museum) in Vienna. If I remember correctly, they used a diesel-electric tractor to have enough torque on the wheels.

 

[RGL]

So after the beauty of the 3D print, the Roden tractors are going to fight me the whole way like my Zvezda Borodino. Misaligned and more flash than a pimp. 

[Egilman]

I have three of them as well and after looking them over, I have to admit it going to take some work to bring the tractors up to the level of the gun as far as crisp clean detail....

 

But I'm sure you can do it....

[RGL]

I have a lot of files, I’m giving them a massive work out. I’m dreading the first primer coat.  

[RGL]

The undercarriage of the Holt Tractors. It’s a really cool design by Rodin poorly made. I added a few rivets to the front steering wheel 

[RGL]

So the undercarriage is done. Most wind be visible once the upper body and tracks are on. 

[Egilman]

3 hours ago, RGL said:

So the undercarriage is done. Most wind be visible once the upper body and tracks are on. 

When I get around to mine, I probably wouldn't go that far.....

 

Nice work....

[RGL]

Thanks, there are a heap of reference photos of her. I got some aftermarket rivets as the kit ones are so damn rough. Here’s a good one of the underside 

[wefalck]

I am always a bit surprised, how 'spidery' early US American tractors look in comparison to their European cousins. I gather they used more fabricated parts than castings.