Licorne 1755 by mtaylor - 3/16" scale - French Frigate - from Hahn plans - Version 2.0 - TERMINATED

[popeye the sailor]

looking great Mark!  your sorting her out in fine style! 

[mtaylor]

Thanks Dan for the wishes.

 

Status at this point:

While sanding down the tuck and bending wood, I got to thinking... Dangerous, I know.  And what with Druxey getting me thinking outside the box a bit.. a lot actually and re-shape things, I re-looked overall the plans in detail even the obscure things... Hahn's build article and pictures... Druxey's input.. other builds.. and it dawned on me that one thing I missed was Hahn's severe beveling of the last cant frame.  See attached.  Once it soaked in what I needed to do, I realized it's only possible way to get that outside edge and the rest of the tuck to work right. 

 

 While digging around in the hard copy files... I found part of the problem in a post-it note I stuck to the frame drawings .  I hadn't pre-beveled it as radical as needed as the frame was flimsy and taking off halt the material on the trailing edge didn't seem like a good idea at the time.   Well, actually, I did try it during construction and broke both sides twice and told myself "not now". Thus, the post-it note.   I should have hung a big sign on the wall:  "Bevel last aft frame, dummy!!"  I'm beveling even more than what's been suggested and things are coming more into line.  I sometimes really need a slap upside the head.

 

I'm currently cleaning things up such that the fashion piece, existing planking (well.. the bits I haven't ripped off anyway) and framing and transoms. I'm also cleaning up the aft end of the existing wide planking.  As soon as I can get one side put together, I'll post a photo 

 

Giampiero, Dan and Druxey, I owe you your favorite adult beverages for your help in spotting problems and your input.  And I owe everyone for their support.   

 

Frame 53.pdf

[druxey]

And a stiff drink to you, Mark, for the courage to revise things!

[CaptainSteve]

Ahh, yes ... the "D'oh !!" moment !!

Homer Simpson would be proud of you, Mark.

[JesseLee]

I've had to do some of this with my build. Can be frustrating to have to undo & re-do things at first but it's always better afterwards!

[mtaylor]

I'm hoping for opinions..  and fear not, I can take critique... 

 

I've sanded and shaped quite a bit on the last cant frame and the transoms.   Is this better?  Does it need more work?

I removed 5 planks, the 3 now installed are only tacked into place and will need beveling, etc.   But I wanted to get an opinion.  I'm thinking they look 100% better, but not sure how "accurate" it is.  Do I need more work on this area?

 

I managed to sort out what my references show (unfortunately, no planking expansion but that's to be expected) for plank that's now wrapped around a bit.  Which what the references seem to show.

 

Thanks in advance.  

 

Edited July 9, 2015 by mtaylor

[cog]

Mark,

 

As far as I can see it should be about perfect. If you'd go on, you might take off to much ...

[Kevin]

nice to catch up on your log mark, absolutely fantastic progress

[augie]

I'm no expert on this design but need to say that you've made her much more pleasing to the eye.  I'll defer to cog's comment.

[Jack12477]

It looks more pleasing to my eye also but I'll defer to Cog and Augie.

[wyz]

Now that you have the planks to lay better on the hull are you going to go back and replace the battens and taper the strakes for final fitting and attachment?

Tom

[shipmodel]

Hi Mark - 

 

Yes, 100% better, but not quite there yet, to my eye.  Go back to the photos of the model that Druxey sent you and compare the turn of the planks there to yours.  I believe that the curve is less acute.  

 

You can see the sense in having a shallow curve for two reasons.  First, a sharp curve here will create an eddy behind itself which increases drag. Those old shipwrights may not have had the mathematics to describe the exact drag force, but they sure could observe the effect and take it into account. Those old shipyard workers would also have been much happier with less of a struggle to bend 3 or 4 inch thick planks around a tight curve.

 

Don't worry about removing too much wood since you will be planking over your frames.  You can even put in a filler piece if you need to.  Getting the curve right on this model will guide you on the next one where you could leave the frames exposed.

 

But you are clearly headed in the right direction on the learning curve and on the model.  Well done.

 

Dan

[mtaylor]

Now that you have the planks to lay better on the hull are you going to go back and replace the battens and taper the strakes for final fitting and attachment?

Tom

 

Tom,

Those are the planks,  not battens.. just not 100% fitted and sanded.  The darker one was still wet.   As for tapering, only at the bow are they tapered as such.  The French planking is a bit different for frigates of this era than the British or Americans used.  They used use 8-12 strakes of thick and wide planking and then went to "normal" (for some value of "normal") planking.   The hull is very smooth and unbroken without the obvious wales of the Engish/American ships.   Footnote.. the wales are 1 foot wide, for 9 strakes on the 8-pdr frigate.  The "normal" planks are 8" wide.

 

Hi Mark - 

 

Yes, 100% better, but not quite there yet, to my eye.  Go back to the photos of the model that Druxey sent you and compare the turn of the planks there to yours.  I believe that the curve is less acute.  

 

You can see the sense in having a shallow curve for two reasons.  First, a sharp curve here will create an eddy behind itself which increases drag. Those old shipwrights may not have had the mathematics to describe the exact drag force, but they sure could observe the effect and take it into account. Those old shipyard workers would also have been much happier with less of a struggle to bend 3 or 4 inch thick planks around a tight curve.

 

Don't worry about removing too much wood since you will be planking over your frames.  You can even put in a filler piece if you need to.  Getting the curve right on this model will guide you on the next one where you could leave the frames exposed.

 

But you are clearly headed in the right direction on the learning curve and on the model.  Well done.

 

Dan

 

Thanks Dan.  You're probably right.  I've pulled off the three planks landing on the tuck and will sand a bit more.  While I agree about the eddys I'm not sure they apply on this ship (I could be wrong) as the waterline is between the lowest full transom and that small transom above the filler block. 

 

 

 

Hmm... she drew 17 feet with the lowest gun port sitting 4 feet out of the water.  The stern windows lower end is at the top of the aft most gunport.   They really did play on perception to make this ship look bigger than she really was.    I note that the British did a similar deception with the Roebuck by putting an upper row of dummy stern windows on a 44 gun frigate to make it appear to be a 64 or 74 from astern.

[Jim Lad]

A huge improvement, Mark, but I think I agree with Dan that there's still a little to go.

 

John

[Remcohe]

A bold move Mark and certainly worth the effort. I always fear such redo's but I know if I don't it wil bother me for years to come.

 

Remco

[src]

"she drew 17 feet with the lowest gun port sitting 4 feet out of the water." Wow, wouldnt that put the lee side gunports at least partially under water in a strong wind? How well did port lids actually seal?

 

Lack of experience makes me hold my toungue on the planking "upgrade" but she looks better and better each time I stop by.

 

Sam

[wyz]

Mark   I knew those were unglued planks.    My question could have been better stated.  It should have read:    Those strakes look like they are full width at the counter.  Do you need to taper them and if so will you reinstall battens.  My bad.

[mtaylor]

Thanks for the comments and support.

 

 

"she drew 17 feet with the lowest gun port sitting 4 feet out of the water." Wow, wouldnt that put the lee side gunports at least partially under water in a strong wind? How well did port lids actually seal?

 

Lack of experience makes me hold my toungue on the planking "upgrade" but she looks better and better each time I stop by.

 

Sam

 

Sam,

I can't answer that about sealing the ports and how well it worked.  The French frigates didn't have lids on the gundeck as it was exposed in the waist.  They use bucklers insead (a one or two piece scheme of a lid fitted to the outside and then secured from the inside. 

 

Mark   I knew those were unglued planks.    My question could have been better stated.  It should have read:    Those strakes look like they are full width at the counter.  Do you need to taper them and if so will you reinstall battens.  My bad.

 

Tom

Short answer.. they stay full width or should.  However, for eye appeal, I probably should taper maybe a 32nd of an inch...  I'll give that some thought when I start laying planks again. The bigger issue is that if I taper them, I'll have to use some stealers at the stern.  Right now, still shaping things.  I do need to make a Lowe's trip for a profile/contour gauge to duplicate this work to the other side.  Better leave the CC at home and only take cash for this run....

Edited July 11, 2015 by mtaylor

[GLakie]

 

"Better leave the CC at home and only take cash for this run...."

I know what you mean about that Mark. I do the same thing when just picking up lumber, usually,   unless I have power-tools on my mind.  

Edited July 11, 2015 by GLakie

[mtaylor]

Uh.. Tom... I was wrong.  They will have to be spiled...    And I'll be needing stealers.   I'm on my 3rd iteration of planks on this round...  I'm hoping.....  but alcohol and sanding sticks are at the ready. 

[mtaylor]

A side update... I'm doing the drawings for the ship's boats and I'll be putting one together while waiting for glue to dry on the main hull.    So as not to "interrupt the flow of things", I'll either make them a separate log like Danny did for his, or just hold off until the planking is done.  Here's a bit of where I am on these. 

 

The longboat drawings are done but still need some tweaking.  Seems that I didn't always account for kerf which I finally managed to get down to 0.015" (0.381mm).  And man, these things are tiny.  Might just be the end of me....

 

Here's two pics of the parts being cut, which is something I couldn't do on a scrollsaw to save my soul.   I tried and failed several times.

 

 

And here's the resulting parts.... the keel is 5" or 125mm long.  The keel and assorted structural members are 1/16" (1.5mm) thick cherry.  The frames (which look like bulkheads are 1/32" (0.79mm)) cherry and the other parts (knees, seats, thwarts on the upper left and upper right) are 1/32" from scrap holly but I'll have to redo them in boxwood as soon I as get some milled down.  I'm planning on using Chuck's method but gluing the bulkheads upside down into a basswood jig for handling and planking.

 

There (hopefully) will be two more boats.  A barge and cutter and all will be nested into the longboat.

 

[GLakie]

It looks like after getting the bugs worked out on that machine, it's taking quite a bit of the "fiddly" out of those tiny little bits Mark.  Glad you've got it tuned up and tweaked, so it works well for you.   

[mobbsie]

Hi Mark,

 

That's seriously impressive Mark, certainly takes scratching up a level.

 

Now you've worked out the bugs the world is your oyster, very well done mate.

 

Be Good

 

mobbsie

[riverboat]

Nice work Mark!!!

 

frank

[UpstateNY]

Hi Mark,

 

Just beautiful. Really looking forward to seeing these pieces come together into a longboat. Some of them look like they are only a few mm long!

 

All your hard work and persistence seems to have turned the tools potential into reality! Congrats!

 

Cheers,

 

Nigel.

[jdbradford]

Hey all, did you see the article in the latest Ship's in Scale magazine on the LaserKnife by Griffith Henson?

 

I may end up with another "tool" in my shipyard.

 

Jeff

[mtaylor]

Thanks guys.  

 

There's been a lot of blood, sweat, and tears to get it to do this along with some extra cash to upgrade a couple of bits.  

 

I've not seen the magazine Jeff.   The tech is maturing and the price points on a lot of machines are rapidly changing to meet marketing conditions as the market settles in.  There's at least one company is (from what I'm reading in other forums) in dire straights for bad reviews, horrible service and ignoring customers (not MM, by the way).  Unless there's a pressing need, I'd hold off for another 6 months.   For example, the $3000+ machine (50W laser) that I was interested in but not quite affordable is now down to $2000.  I still wouldn't have room for it as its a good 18" longer than one I have......  <sigh><need a bigger workshop>

[cog]

Nice sharp cutting .. I couldn't do those parts on a scrollsaw either, at least not in those sizes ... fortunately I don't need to Those laseercutters are still quite expensive at this side of the pond ... same goes for the Byrnes machines ... sigh

Edited July 14, 2015 by cog

[Jparsley]

Mark I'm sure you'll be able to turn scrap into art with the baby you have now The parts look great

[CaptainSteve]

Mark,

Don't forget the parts to make up the gratings, and a tool chest. Plus, if Buck's and Matt's work is any guide, you'll also be needing pieces for a compass, lantern and various barrels.