Licorne 1755 by mtaylor - 3/16" scale - French Frigate - from Hahn plans - Version 2.0 - TERMINATED

[cog]

If you don't get that one to your liking, mayby 'Fleece line' could help ... or for that matter mouseline (muslin?) ... - getting old, should have thought about these sooner(!)

 

Cheers

[BANYAN]

Great outcome Mark, patience and determination ...I think you have earned an extra tot today

 

cheers

 

Pat

[Sjors]

You win today the price of invention Mark !!!!

Well done.....

 

Sjors

[src]

That beats carving and painting one. Well done.

Sam

[Jack12477]

Looks good Mark.

[JesseLee]

That looks really good Mark

Jesse

[popeye the sailor]

gee Mark....I must have been mistaken..........this one does look better.  

[rafine]

Now you've got it!

 

Bob

[Canute]

By Jove, I think he's got it! She a beauty, Mark.

[druxey]

Persistence pays off! Well done, Mark.

[Bill Hime]

Mark,

Looks great my friend! You're right about scale. went out to the shop and pulled a mantel out...but would work nicely I think at 1:48 or 1:32! I pledge never to work in 1:64th AGAIN, lol

 

Beautiful work Mark and way to stick with it!

 

 

Bill

[md1400cs]

Mark,

 

Awesome detail work. Well done indeed.

 

Michael

[JesseLee]

I couldn't find much info on rudder coats when I did mine. Wish I had taken more time to research it before I went ahead & made it. The information we learn from your research is just as pleasing as the work you do.

 

Jesse

[mtaylor]

Thanks for the likes and the comments.

 

Looks good, Mark. The cloth weave looks like a used clothes dryer sheet. I knew you'd do it! :)

 

It's actually an old handkerchief that I had in the shop and used it as a shop towel for smaller bits, Ken.  

 

Great outcome Mark, patience and determination ...I think you have earned an extra tot today

 

cheers

 

Pat

 

  Thanks, Pat.

 

That beats carving and painting one. Well done.

Sam

 

Sam, I think you're right.  

 

I couldn't find much info on rudder coats when I did mine. Wish I had taken more time to research it before I went ahead & made it. The information we learn from your research is just as pleasing as the work you do.

 

Jesse

 

Jesse, that's the great thing about MSW.  Your log was one of the ones I looked at and followed for my rudder coat.  We learn from each other.      It's as Greg and others have said.. rudder coats just aren't often modeled.  I found very few overall.

[Jim Lad]

Very well sorted, Mark - looks good.

 

John

[Elijah]

I was right! It's even better !

[GDM67]

Well done!  I appreciate all the discussion on the rudder coat and will be using these ideas when the time comes in my own build.  Thank you.  Gary

[iMack]

Beautiful work. Such attention to detail. Very clean and methodical work - looking forward to more updates. 

[Greg.Ashwood]

Howdy Mark

New to this site and I'm very impressed with your work.

All the best

Greg

[mobbsie]

That is now 1000% better Mark, lovely job and well done with persevering with this detail. 

 

Perfect.

 

Be Good

 

mobbsie

[mtaylor]

After much thought, reading, Googling, staring at the ship, fiddling with paper and cardboard, I'm starting the galleries.

 

First, here's the drawings of the Licorne as built in 1755 with the same style galleries as Renommee and others of that era.  Ornate and distinctively French.

 

 

 

After the rebuild, the wales changed to more like Belle Poule and other frigates of that era.   There is one problem though, the galleries are NOT like anything I've able to find.  I trust the NMM drawings as the lines, etc. were taken off after she was captured.

 

The big "whoa" moment is that the galleries extend beyond the transom taffrail.  Newer ships fell under the edict of galleries, when viewed from the stern were to be "hidden" by the transom taffrail.  See drawings... these are from the Hahn plans but match the NMM plans.  There are no plan views (top down) that show the galleries shape.

 

 

What I ended up doing was using cardboard, paper, cellophane tape, blue tape, lots of invectives, and finally some rationalization.  Hahn built them as semi circles and I think he's pretty spot on.  The mockup was pretty much destroyed fit the bits and pieces into the scanner for converting to parts drawings. So, sorry there's no pictures.  It wasn't very pretty to look at but it filled the need.

 

Here's the first parts I've cut.  Basically the upper matches the bottom as to size but with some reshaping as to the outside for the trim strip.   If you'll look carefully, they are not a true semi-circle.   When I viewed the mockups from the side and the rear, this curve is the only one that matched the views and this didn't match the other ship plans I looked at.   Part of the reason, I believe, is that Licorne's stern is a bit narrower than the normal of the time and the sweep of the top rail has more arc than other French frigates I looked at.

 

 

I'm starting to fit them now.  I'm starting with the bottom piece on one side and then make the other side a mirror image. 

 

One other note.... On the old style galleries, only the center pane of the window (or of the center window for larger ships) was glazed.  I'm in a quanadry about glazing all the panes in all the windows and all the models of frigates of that period that I've seen haven't had glazing.  Even Frolich's... just black or blue paint in the panes.   Hmm...  my decision at this moment is to glaze the center window entirely and deadlight the other two.  However, that's open to discussion.

 

[GLakie]

It's amazing to see the amount of research that goes into these older vessels. Very nice! 

[BANYAN]

A brave start Mark; gtood luck with these as they look a bit tricky

 

cheers

 

Pat

[Omega1234]

Hi Mark

 

I sense your frustration about not being able to find the exact drawings of the galleries. Nonetheless, what you're doing certainly seems to fit the bill. It'll look pretty darn perfect once done, for sure!

 

Cheers and all the best.

 

Patrick

[cog]

Mark,

 

It must be so

 

 

confusing ... A French ship, caught by the English ... rebuild (partly) and only the French plans to consult, besides the references from another modeller, whom is an expert, but didn't live at the time of the changes either ... how I do not envy you ... but how courageous, and creative you are ...

 

Cheers

[CaptainSteve]

Mark. I'm really looking forward to seeing this remarkable piece of art come alive !!

[Gerhardvienna]

Hi Mark

The galleries are the most difficult parts on such a ship. Good luck for this, the beginning looks good at the moment!

 

Regards

Gerhard

[popeye the sailor]

with something that ornate Mark.....I'd glaze all three.   as you were narrating earlier,  I had the thought of simply looking at her from the stern and gauging the hull lines......that would give you an idea of how much they jut out.    I see you already did that     well played orange   

[paulsutcliffe]

hi mark

nice work, I'm having similar problems and have put of the galleries for that reason, the syrius design was based on a Spanish frigate and a one off and I only have the NMM plans and as you so no plan view, as you mentioned re my stove tiles go with how you think they should look, assuming they were the toilet like English ships should give you an idea as long as someone could get in and sit down it should work

[mtaylor]

Thanks for the likes and comments...   Indeed, this will be fiddly.   However, I do see the need for several jigs... I've got one done for bending the decorative trim and am working on a sanding jig.  If you look carefully, there's a slight curve to the window line and the trim pieces above and below.....  And then I need a small jig to get everything uniform.   Thank heavens for basswood and a scrap box which gives me cheap jig material.

 

I just noticed this.... the plans show 3 X 3 rows of glazing on all the windows.  The Hahn model only has two vertical rows on the forward window.   Hmmm.... what did he know or find out while building this ship? 

 

A brave start Mark; gtood luck with these as they look a bit tricky

 

cheers

 

Pat

 

Pat, I'm not sure if this bravery or just being over-confident.        It's going to be fiddly to say the least.

 

Mark,

 

It must be so

 

confused_roo.png

 

confusing ... A French ship, caught by the English ... rebuild (partly) and only the French plans to consult, besides the references from another modeller, whom is an expert, but didn't live at the time of the changes either ... how I do not envy you ... but how courageous, and creative you are ...

 

Cheers

 

Carl, the rebuild was by the French before she was caught...  This bit is going to either make or break me, I think.   I've asked to Admiral about what size knitting needles would be good for a starter project.  

 

Mark. I'm really looking forward to seeing this remarkable piece of art come alive !!

 

So am I, Steve... I'm wihging it here.  

 

Hi Mark

The galleries are the most difficult parts on such a ship. Good luck for this, the beginning looks good at the moment!

 

Regards

Gerhard

 

You might just be right, Gerhard.  Although the head has similar issues as far as complexity....  

 

hi mark

nice work, I'm having similar problems and have put of the galleries for that reason, the syrius design was based on a Spanish frigate and a one off and I only have the NMM plans and as you so no plan view, as you mentioned re my stove tiles go with how you think they should look, assuming they were the toilet like English ships should give you an idea as long as someone could get in and sit down it should work

 

Paul,

That's part of what I had to get a feel for.  From hull to the outside of the gallery is about 3 to 3 1/2 feet. The deck the officer/captain would stand on is actually in the drop so that has to be hollowed out some or it will block the doorway... I'm being picky... 

 

 

with something that ornate Mark.....I'd glaze all three.   as you were narrating earlier,  I had the thought of simply looking at her from the stern and gauging the hull lines......that would give you an idea of how much they jut out.    I see you already did that     well played orange  

 

I may end up doing that, just because, Denis.  I'll have to see how horrible it looks from the outside looking in also.  Although with the liquid glazing, everything will be blurry anyway so it just boils down to which is correct for the period.