anchor rigging

[michael101]

hello

please someone know how to tie the rope on the anchor on the wood part?

 

 

thank you 

Michael.

[mtaylor]

The area circled in red?  Not rope but metal bands wrapped while hot and then riveted, usually.   A lot of us use black paper to simulate the iron bands as it's easier to work with than brass.

[jbshan]

I use computer paper wrapped a couple of times, a small amount of glue under the paper, and between the layers.  I also make my own crossbar from wood as it is two pieces that do not meet in the middle, only at the ends, squeezing the shank of the anchor between, in a little notch.

[michael101]

Thank you for the answer

But to be honest I don't want to use any kind of paper it's my first build and I'm working on that mor than one year and I never used other alternative than wood or metal

So I don't want to start using that alternative in the last part of my model

 

In the official pic of mamoli they post that pic

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/716Uq29HV4L._SL1196_.jpg

 

And you can see that they used ropes on that part of wood the question is for what is used for , is it for making the wood stronger like the ropes on the masts or to making that heavier , and if it's for making that stronger I guess that it's ok to use rope like in the official model of mamoli

 

Michael.

[Ulises Victoria]

The wooden anchor heads were actually two wooden parts with a notch in the middle where the anchor shaft accommodates. So those metal parts (cinches?) were to hold the two parts together. Not sure but probably rope was used for the same purpose at one time or another.

So if you are asking how to tie the rope, just make 4 or 5 turns of rope around the anchor head and tie a knot. You may place the know in the inner side of the anchor where it will not be seen, if that bothers you. Hope this helps. 

Other alternative may be using painted aluminum foil.

Edited July 20, 2015 by Ulises Victoria

[Stockholm tar]

Michael,

 

As, Ulises says, the wooden cross piece – known as a stock – was in two halves and the bands were to hold it together. I would think that the earlier 'bands' were of rope, much like the wooldings on the lower masts, and made of iron at a later date. I believe in reality rope bindings were simply fastened with several nails in line, rather than using a knot which wouldn't be very secure. They were probably replaced periodically.

 

Regarding your model, I would say that black paper is preferable, as metal is likely to be over scale. There is also the problem of bending it around the differing angles of the stock, especially the lower tapered side. I imagine paper to be rather easier.

[jbshan]

Stockholm, yes, the paper, when damp with glue, eases around the several angles on the stock.  If you did it with metal you would have a very complex shape to be bent around that needs to match up when the two ends meet.

[JerseyCity Frankie]

A nice material for modeling metal that would be nearly flat on the actual ship ( or an inch or less thick) is the foil wrappers found around the cork on some wine bottles. Its malleability makes it better than tin foil, its a bit thicker and the metal is often darker than the bright silver of tin foil too. Its perfect for hinges escutcheons and all sorts of bands plates or what have you.

[dafi]

Here a picture to show the system:

 

 

The wooden stock is in two halves and squeezes the shaft of the anchor. The 4 iron loops hold the system. If the shaft gets loose, the loops only have to be hammered inwards, and because of the conical form of the stock and the shaft will be held tight again. Ingenious design :-)

 

I doubt that it was ever replaced by rope, but hey its your model, do something like the woolings on the masts, if you do not like the paper version :-)

 

XXXDan

Edited July 21, 2015 by dafi

[michael101]

Thank you all !!

I love this forum !!!

[Landlocked123]

Hi All,

 

If you want to see anchors that are completely fantastic look at the recent posts in Danny Vadas' HMS Vulture in scratch builds. Like everything else in this build they are absolutely unbelievable!!!!!!

 

I can't imagine how anyone could do better.

 

By the way, Danny uses paper to represent the bands holding the halves of the anchor stock together. To my way of thinking it is better to use whatever technique or material you can to get the best representation of the prototype. Concerning one-selves about use a preferred materials as opposed to the best materials is counterproductive.

 

John

Edited July 22, 2015 by Landlocked123

[Dan Vadas]

Thanks for that John, I was just about to reply when I saw your post .

 

I do indeed use paper, actually thin card from a manilla folder, to make the bands. I stain the card with black wood stain. Here's a LINK to my build log where I'm making the anchors.

 

But to be honest I don't want to use any kind of paper it's my first build

 

 

Why not Michael? A lot of us use paper or card and regard it as a valuable and legitimate material. When you think about it paper is MADE from wood .

 

Some builders make entire ships from paper. Take a look at some of Doris's work - unbelievable workmanship, and you'd never tell that it's not wood.

 

Remember this - if it LOOKS right it IS right .

 

 Danny

[lb0190]

I used paper which works well and just recently tried black shrink tube cut to the needed width. The shrink tube looks pretty good but cutting it a consistant width was a challenge. It's on my Niagara build if you want to see how it looks.

[Bill Jackson]

Guys I also need help. This is my first build and my specific question is:

Where is the anchor chain rigged once it goes through the hawse-hole in the San Martin (spanish galleon 1588) This instructions say to drill holes through the howse blocks and onto the hull, but where do they go then?

[mtaylor]

Generally, the anchor chain/cable would go through the hawse hole, be tied off every few feet to the messenger line which runs from the capstan to some pulleys on the bow. Probably on main deck below the fore deck and stern castle.  As the  anchor is pulled up, they would short ropes tied to the messenger would be removed as the chain/anchor is fed down to the hold where there would be a cable tier to store it on.  I'm not about specifically the San Martin nor ships of that time period but that's generally how they did it. 

[Bill Jackson]

Thanks for the help. You are correct, on the San Matrin model, there is a hole in the fore deck and nothing more. Of course the capstan is just aft of the main mast and centerline, but there is no indication nor materials to tie the two together.

I have decided to drill the hole in the hawse and simply run the chains through the fore deck opening, and leave it at that; since I have no instructions nor materials to do otherwise.

Thanks mtaylor for your help.

Bill

[davyboy]

Hi Bill,just for info. A Spanish galleon of 1588 would definitely not have chain anchor cables,they were a 19th century innovation.

 

Dave 

[amateur]

And it wouldbe interesting to know when the messenger-system came in use. My guess would be that a Spanish galleon of around 1600 had a very basic anchor handling: just the anchor rope around the capstan, and nothing else.

 

Jan

[Gregory]

Is this the kit from Occre?

 

From what I can see in the images available the anchor cable is not visible after it enters the hawse hole, so I think you will be good with

just leaving it hidden.

[jud]

I have read somewhere in this Forum that the messenger loop used around the Capstan came about with the increase in size of the Anchor Cable to where it would have been damaged by passing it around the Drum several times. The loop was tight enough to guide itself and pass around a fixture at its forward turnback, under tension only between the Capstan and the most forward tie to the cable. I suspect it was all taken down and stored below unless needed, that being the reason it is seldom seen in drawings and paintings, models followed suit.

 

[Bill Jackson]

Jud,

I read somemore on this topic yesterday and you are correct! I assumed the anchor and chain was kept in place, the same way it was during my 20 years of sailing in the US Navy. Dumb me!))))

After reading more, you are correct that the chain/rope was kept below, and was taken up on deck and flaked out prior to connecting it through the hawse pipe and to the anchor before dropping the anchor.

Sounds to me like a difficult and dangerous task.

Thanks for you words.

Bill

[john_weiman]

Hi Michael, 

I am presently doing the anchors on my ship build. I have attached a photo of what I have done. I used black rope, and just did a few turns, but also used nails to simulate the assembly.

[allanyed]

John

I admire your work very much.   One comment, hope you don't mind, the anchor cable  would not be knotted and seized as you show  but rather would be tied to the anchor ring with a knot  similar to that below while in use. 

 

 

[john_weiman]

Thanks Mike, I should not of tightened it. I will make the correction.

[mtaylor]

John,

Allan's drawing shows the way the rope is tied.  It's still needs to be tightened.  

[Ferit]

On 7/16/2019 at 4:17 AM, john_weiman said:

Hi Michael, 

I am presently doing the anchors on my ship build. I have attached a photo of what I have done. I used black rope, and just did a few turns, but also used nails to simulate the assembly.

Hi John,

My opinion is that the direction of the wood block may not be correct. Should rotate 180 degrees... 

[amateur]

In case you are going to redo the anchors: you could also replace the wooden part itself: the grain should be running lengthwise, and not cross.

However: I shouldn't redo anything if I were you, and just take the feedback to your next model

 

Jan

[Bill Jackson]

Gentlemen,

Thanks for your input. I think Im on track now, at least with the anchor roping. "Miles to go before I sleep"

Bill

[Baker]

 

On 7/15/2019 at 2:24 AM, Bill Jackson said:

Where is the anchor chain rigged once it goes through the hawse-hole in the San Martin (spanish galleon 1588)

My idea

The cable goes through hawse hole n° 33, is attached to n° 40 and is stored in the cable tier n° 25 (And certainly not use a chain)

Photo and info from the book "Galleon The great ships of the armada era" by Peter Kirsch.

And on my 16th century English Galleon Golden Hind. The 2 cables of the anchors  will "disappear" in the 2 holes in the hatch.

 

[Bill Jackson]

Hello Backer,

Thank you for your drawing and info. The model I have does not go into the detail you explained, and the anchor rope only goes into the hawser holes. Another post on this topic said that while at sea, the anchors are stowed on the port and starboard sides of the galleon. The rope would not be shown as it will be stowed below decks. I think I will go with that idea and show only the anchors without the ropes.

Thank you again for helping me.

Bill