Chris Watton and Vanguard Models news and updates

[chris watton]

I have been ploughing on with designing the Sphinx model kit. here are a few (bad) pics of my prototype build (the third and hopefully final). I am just making this up for pictures for Jim, who will once again build the finalised model for the instructions and box art. This is a lot more complex than previous Vanguard Models designs, and as such, is taking far longer to develop. However, I am hoping the end result will mean that many will be able to make a very nice model from the kit, and enjoy the build without the need for special skills..

 

For now, this is as far as I will go, design-wise, and may pull back a little on larger models, due to material costs and cutting/engraving times. Knowing me though, I wont....

 

Regarding the pics, please bare in mind this is still in prototype stage (with a hope that this will be the final stage for all parts that have been fitted), and this model will probably been thrown away once I have what I need from it.

 

Oh, and one last pic that Jim sent me, with progress on the ships boats, three of which will be included in the Sphinx kit.

Edited December 27, 2020 by chris watton

[glbarlow]

Nice!

[Glenn-UK]

looks an interesting and fun build

[glbarlow]

I think maybe 2 or 3 of my Sphinx’s boats will have been lost in a storm 🤪😂🤣

[James H]

17 minutes ago, glbarlow said:

I think maybe 2 or 3 of my Sphinx’s boats will have been lost in a storm 🤪😂🤣

Not at all!!!

 

These are for Sphinx:

 

24ft Launch

 

28ft Pinnace

 

22ft Yawl

 

 

[glbarlow]

As in I don’t relish making one let alone multiples. Those little things are tough to build🤣🤪

[James H]

3 minutes ago, glbarlow said:

As in I don’t relish making one let alone multiples. Those little things are tough to build🤣🤪

Wait until you’ve done 9 or 10 in a row. They’re like falling off a log by then 😆

[chris watton]

7 minutes ago, glbarlow said:

As in I don’t relish making one let alone multiples. Those little things are tough to build🤣🤪

I always think that (even now)! when it comes to making them, but once I get started, I am always surprised that they are all completed in a couple of days.

 

The new boats will have planking laser cut on a 0.6mm pear sheet, so not so thick (although you still have to taper them yourself, you need something to do..)

 

ETA - I think Sphinx will work just fine without boats, as the quarterdeck will be designed to be only partially planked, showing the deck beams..

Edited December 27, 2020 by chris watton

[Rustyj]

17 hours ago, glbarlow said:

As in I don’t relish making one let alone multiples. Those little things are tough to build🤣🤪

 

Come on Glenn! A little stress and aggravation is just what the doctor ordered. 

 

Seriously I think they would be a great addition to the completed model.  

[glbarlow]

10 minutes ago, Rustyj said:

great addition to the completed model.

Yes they are and I’ll undoubtedly build them🙃. I built the 4 for Vanguard, I was recalling just how much fun those were...🤨

Edited December 28, 2020 by glbarlow

[Wahka_est]

Really nice Chris!

Estimated release date? Then i k ow if to take uo next build or wait for this one  .

[chris watton]

I do not know yet, but am hoping for April/May release. If I get furloughed again, maybe sooner!

 

Just dry fitted (not glued in place until outer hull planked) forecastle and quarterdeck beams, all seems fine..

 

ETA - All upper deck beams will be in pearwood

Edited December 28, 2020 by chris watton

[Vane]

This really looks interesting!

What is the size of the hull? 

[chris watton]

Hull from figurehead to stern is around 605mm long (Speedy hull length is 440mm). With bowsprit, it will come to a little under 800mm. Not too big, not too small.

[AlanDavison]

 Hi Chris,

Spring, early summer was my guess. Do you intend to offer any option like you did with Alert & Speedy, or is that too complicated?
Have you any idea of price, yet. Are we talking £4, 5, 600 or more.

I note you intend a full compliment of ships boats, which is great, but will you also be including other often forgotten items such as seats of ease, flag lockers, manger and so forth.

This has to be the model to die for. Can’t wait

[chris watton]

1 hour ago, AlanDavison said:

 Hi Chris,

Spring, early summer was my guess. Do you intend to offer any option like you did with Alert & Speedy, or is that too complicated?
Have you any idea of price, yet. Are we talking £4, 5, 600 or more.

I note you intend a full compliment of ships boats, which is great, but will you also be including other often forgotten items such as seats of ease, flag lockers, manger and so forth.

This has to be the model to die for. Can’t wait

This is always my dilemma, price. If I was designing for a large manufacturer, this model would have been trimmed down to the absolute bare minimum, to keep the material and packing cost low. I do not consider this so much, but it still means it will cost more than an equivalent size 'mainstream kit' - although they are basically empty shells (As an example, even a small model like Duchess of Kingston has well over an hour's worth of laser cutting time per kit).

 

Right now, considering the amount of materials required for this (many pre made parts means a lot more sheets of pear, maple veneer for decks and plywood), plus cutting times, it will not be below £500, but I hope that people will find pleasure in the build, rather than frustration. There will be a lot of parts both in wood and PE, but that doesn't mean complicated, it just means there's less parts the modeller will have to fashion themselves, plus more detail than conventional kits.

 

It would be so much easier (and so much quicker, development-wise) to just include the bare minimum and a bunch of wood strip and drawings and then ask the customer to get on with it, with the end result being totally dependant on the skills of the customer. Price would be halved, but I suspect many kits would be abandoned out of sheer frustration - and my  design philosophy has always been to design a model kit how I would like it, if it were my hard earned buying the kit. But this way, time and costs are quite large - but I also know there will be a lot less 'abandoned projects' with these kits.

 

For Sphinx, like Duchess, this will be only one version, due to materials being tested for the prototypes. There will be a pearwood block and deadeye option, as usual, but that will be it. I am sure some will not use the laser etched decks and plank their own way, which is fine. Some of the results of this look stunning from what I have seen. But I prefer the customer to have the choice, they can use the pre made parts if they wish, or depending on their own preferences and skill level, can use the kit as a basis to really make it their own. (BE's Zulu kit and DELF's Speedy immediately springs to mind)

 

Not sure about manger, as I have made 'concessions' with the extremities of the hull to ensure they are more than robust enough for sanding, so the front upper deck stops at bulkhead 1. Am sure there are seats of ease located on the bow gratings, but haven't thought of flag lockers yet, as I have spent all my time sorting the basics for the hull assembly.

 

As mentioned before, for the larger models, I will dial back slightly, so hull and decks will be conventionally planked (as I can only buy certain materials up to a certain size), but will still include as much deck detail as I can get away with. But if Sphinx sells well enough, it may be worth transferring some of the same design cues to the much larger kits - but for the larger kits, I will also need to invest in another more powerful laser machine.

Edited December 29, 2020 by chris watton

[Glenn-UK]

For me the price of your kits is not an issue and the more idiot proof the better based on my skill set.

[AlanDavison]

Glen,

I’m sure you do yourself an injustice regarding your skill level!
regarding cost, some of us who live on modest pensions do have to watch the pennies but £500+ doesn’t sound to bad for the quality and detail we will receive.

[glbarlow]

We pay for quality, I’d rather have a well designed kit made from better wood and pay more than save a few dollars. In fact if it’s a “budget minded” design I won’t buy it in the first place. I want Chris to be successful, meaning he requires a fair profit for his work, I’m happy to pay a fair price for his kits so he can keep making kits. On the other hand, many of the small trivial details are ones that, should I want them, I’m happy to scratch build and as Chris says, make it my own.

Edited December 29, 2020 by glbarlow

[Rik Thistle]

I’d rather have a well designed kit made from better wood and pay more than save a few dollars.

 

I think that's a very good point.

 

And thinking aloud - I do like Chris' well designed fishing/working vessels for a number of reasons....

- they are more compact than the fighting vessels so take up less room in the shipyard, and the house when finished

- they have less repetitive details, and can be finished a bit quicker

- they can be bashed somewhat easier (?) since information on them is a little more readily available ie100-150 yrs old rather than 200-300 yrs old. B.E.'s Muirneag Zulu is a great example.

- if Chris wished to increase the complexity of his fishing/working vessels and charge more I wouldn't have an issue...eg maybe a Fifie Standard and a Fifie Premium?

 

That's not to say I won't buy another HM Flirt type vessel, but I suspect that my build ratio of small boats: large ships will always be around 2:1

 

But that's just me...we all have different outlooks so it's only an opinion and a little bit of market feedback for Chris.

 

Richard

[Vane]

My Snake is about 55cm and have 18 carronades so Sphinx is slightly bigger and 22 guns if I got it right. Its definitely on the bucket list. I just need to finish some of my current builds first... I am quite active at my work bench but I have so many simultanius things going on.   

I dont care much about the pricetag (as long as its well spent money) and Speedy has been a very nice build so personally I think the higher quality the better (even though it will come with a cost). I got my Speedy about a year ago and what I really like with Vanguards is that its increadible  how the "design" has evolved since then. As an engineer its also fun to watch how you keep inventing new solutions making things more easy. I cant say I like ALL the inventions, but its great to see that someone is trying to improve things in this hobby where most companies just seem to live on 20-40 year old kits. And I always have the option of "scratchbuilding" details that I dont like the pre-made stuff.

I recently got into plastics as well and those companies are much better in producing new kits than the woodenship manufacturers. When I started, I was suprised that the price of two similar kits could be so different. But after buying some cheap planes and tanks I realised quickly why. Some kits  can be 40+ years old and just gotten a new box. Old kits dont have the details and fit as the new ones and most of the time I would rather spend 2-3 times as much for a new kit rather than an old. Its just aint worth the hazzle to save a few bucks.            

[chris watton]

I have the more expensive Tamiya Yamato kit, and it is so much better than the standard older kit.

 

As it's snowing heavily here today, I won't be going to the workshop to sand the prototype hull. Instead, I thought I'd dry fit another critical area, the bow. This is made up of 14 parts and, as with Duchess and fishing boats (and all new future kits), it has the rabbet worked into the prow and keel parts. Again, these are just for checking and are throwaway parts..

 

The figurehead is the kit version. Each kit will have a 3-d printed figurehead with zero trimming required. The 20 x 9 pounder short cannon barrels will also be 3-d printed in a matt black colour, an example of which is shown. I have given Jim two sets of carriages, a set with and a set without the cap squares pre-cut into the cheek. I think the pre-cut cap squares may win the day. Ladders this time will be laser cut and etched in 0.6mm pear, making them more to scale, thickness-wise (5 ladder sets altogether for Sphinx)

[glbarlow]

I like the additional bulkheads and fillers at the bow. These are a really big deal from a planking standpoint and one of the many quality upgrades that separates Chris from the Industrial kits. 
 

Chuck also did this with Cheerful, so much easier to get a proper bow formed and better than having to fill in with chunks of balsa. 

[Glenn-UK]

Chris

Are you planning to include a fairing guide line on the bulkheads?

[chris watton]

3 minutes ago, glennard2523 said:

Chris

Are you planning to include a fairing guide line on the bulkheads?

Not sure yet, have to be careful of laser cutting time. At this rate, I will only be able to produce one kit per day for laser cut parts..

[Glenn-UK]

Maybe they just be shown on the plan drawings for guidance purposes. I did not really enjoy the model space Yamato build but they did provide some sanding templates for the hull which were really useful.

[chris watton]

First planking complete and sanded smooth. This is 1mm thick x 5mm wide limewood, much easier to work with than 1.5mm thick lime (Took a day to plank and 20 minutes to sand). Hull lines are quite planking friendly, so not much overlap to sand. No changes needed for the bulkheads, as all planks sit just right on each, so this means I have no more work to do on main skeletal structure. No gun ports to mark out and cut out, too, they will just need a slight file so they are flush with the main frames.

[JeffT]

looks great!

[Glenn-UK]

nice work

[Rustyj]

Looking great. I like the switch to the 1mm thick limewood.