Chris Watton and Vanguard Models news and updates

[Oldsalt1950]

It will definitely be a build worth following and taking notes on if you plan to purchase. Even if you don't, just seeing the Indie take shape will be worth the price of admission.

[Thukydides]

1 hour ago, Dave_E said:

Will Jim have a build log? 

He already does.

 

 

[chris watton]

The weight worries me, to be honest. It will be very expensive to ship, being over twice the weight of even a Sphinx kit, and I worry some people may hurt themselves when moving the box - perhaps adding a set of wheels at one end and a handle at the other end of the box would be a good idea!

[Craigie65]

Would a 2 part kit save on postage?  Or do the additional costs of splitting the kit outweigh any savings?

[chris watton]

7 minutes ago, Craigie65 said:

Would a 2 part kit save on postage?  Or do the additional costs of splitting the kit outweigh any savings?

No, as the weight would still be the same, perhaps a little more due to two boxes.

 

It is also pointless splitting the model into hull and masts, yards and rig, as the latter three weighs nothing in comparison to the hull.

[Oldsalt1950]

Chris, what if you broke the kit up similar to the way Chuck Passaro is doing the Winchelsea. You could even break up the instruction manual to correspond to how the kit is divided, sort of hull, deck and fittings, boats and cannons, masts spars and rigging. Just a thought. It isn't like anyone is going to speed build the Indy in a few weeks.

[chris watton]

9 minutes ago, Oldsalt1950 said:

Chris, what if you broke the kit up similar to the way Chuck Passaro is doing the Winchelsea. You could even break up the instruction manual to correspond to how the kit is divided, sort of hull, deck and fittings, boats and cannons, masts spars and rigging. Just a thought. It isn't like anyone is going to speed build the Indy in a few weeks.

I have only dealt with full kits, and Indefatigable has been developed as a full kit. As I mentioned, spars and rigging is but a fraction of the overall kit contents and weight, so that's not worth splitting, as it would make little to no difference in the box size or weight. Same applies to the 5 included boats.

 

My philosophy - All or nothing!

[Oldsalt1950]

Then we builders and the delivery persons will just get a little workout on the day the kit arrives. Not a big deal really. It makes me think back to my military days where "man portable" meant anything that didn't need wheels or a truck to be moved. 

[thibaultron]

This is why I have a hand truck. If I want such a kit, I'd figure out how to move it. No problem Chris.

[glbarlow]

2 hours ago, chris watton said:

My philosophy - All or nothing!

I totally agree.

[whitejamest]

It would be nice if you could add a laser cut mini-kit addon that, when you assemble it, patiently and persuasively explains to my wife why she needs to clear more shelf space for me to fit this model into our apartment. I think there would be a good market for it. 

[hollowneck]

14 minutes ago, whitejamest said:

persuasively explains to my wife why she needs to clear more shelf space for me to fit this model into our apartment. I think there would be a good market for it. 

I have a solution! Purchase these for your wife this Holiday Season. Tell her they're trending on Instagram and are VERY fashion-forward. An important step before gifting: carefully adjust the diopter controls so that your model appears to be less than half it's actual size...I think these special glasses are mainly sold as a dieting option, however, they would be worth a try!

[Wacom]

Chris, I woudn’t worry too much about the weight. I turn 80 next month and can still pickup my 10kg dog easily,  another 6 shouldn’t put too much stress on my ageing frame, besides I already pumped up the sack barrow tyres in anticipation😄

[thibaultron]

8 hours ago, whitejamest said:

It would be nice if you could add a laser cut mini-kit addon that, when you assemble it, patiently and persuasively explains to my wife why she needs to clear more shelf space for me to fit this model into our apartment. I think there would be a good market for it. 

That would be a best selling stand alone kit!!!

[chris watton]

It seems I may be able to get hold of maple sheet, 0.8mm thick, 200x800mm in size. I have ordered a few sheets to see if it is viable for laser etching the Indy decks. If it is, then I will offer the laser cut and etched decks as an optional extra. I will offer as an extra because I know some like to plank the decks, and the laser etched decks take a long time to produce (an hour per kit), so would add more cost to the kit, and for something some may not even use.

 

Anyway, will see how these turn out once I have the material delivered. I personally prefer the etched decks, but also know there are many who do not.

 

 

[Glenn-UK]

14 minutes ago, chris watton said:

It seems I may be able to get hold of maple sheet, 0.8mm thick, 200x800mm in size. I have ordered a few sheets to see if it is viable for laser etching the Indy decks. If it is, then I will offer the laser cut and etched decks as an optional extra. I will offer as an extra because I know some like to plank the decks, and the laser etched decks take a long time to produce (an hour per kit), so would add more cost to the kit, and for something some may not even use.

 

Anyway, will see how these turn out once I have the material delivered. I personally prefer the etched decks, but also know there are many who do not.

 

 

That is an option I would add

[Gregory]

Chris, have you considered offering laser cut planks ?  

 

 

The laser char provides the treenail and caulking look.  This was maple veneer.  Probably about .8 mm..

[chris watton]

59 minutes ago, Gregory said:

Chris, have you considered offering laser cut planks ?  

 

 

 

The laser char provides the treenail and caulking look.  This was maple veneer.  Probably about .8 mm..

I have considered individual planks, yes. The problem is how much the laser burns odd from the edges. Get the offset calculations wrong slightly (speed and power settings also play a big part in this), and you are left with gaps at the sides (or the middle, depending where you start your planking). If it's only a few planks from one side of the deck to another, it's not so bad, but for much wider decks, 50+planks wide, any slight over cut for each plank would be disaster.

 

Plus each plank would need retaining tabs to hold them in their host sheet, and these hundreds of  tabs would need to be filed flush perfectly. Etched decks negate all of this.

Edited May 18, 2022 by chris watton

[Gregory]

The margin planks were an extra challenge for me, but I think no more of a design problem than many other parts of your kit.

Any small alignment problems can be covered with a waterway..

My waterway is a bit overscale but shows the technique.

 

I see how retaining tabs would be a problem in a production environment, but I can think of a possible way to mitigate that..

Edited May 18, 2022 by Gregory

[glbarlow]

I’d just mill my own planks or use the planks provided for the deck and wouldn’t want a laser etched deck for a model of this size and quality so having the laser etched deck as an option is a good approach.

[chris watton]

25 minutes ago, Gregory said:

The margin planks were an extra challenge for me, but I think no more of a design problem than many other parts of your kit.

Any small alignment problems can be covered with a waterway..

My waterway is a bit overscale but shows the technique.

 

I see how retaining tabs would be a problem in a production environment, but I can think of a possible way to mitigate that..

I am happy with my two choices, individual planking strips as standard, or a possible option of a laser engraved set.

[Vane]

I was just thinking about all the new techniques and materials you have introduced in the Vanguard models. Most manufacturers seem to stick with ply, walnut and white metal etc. Has there been some kind of resistance to use new materials in woodship building?  

Using resin for canons instead of moulded white metal or lathed metalbarrels significantly improves the details and quality. But do people argue its not "true" if not everything is done in the traditional materials?

A couple of years ago I started building plastics again and discovered that there is alot of useful stuff that would could be used to improve the quality of woodenships if not everything is done in "wood". The world of plastics has evolved significantly over the years with different paints, resin, 3d printing, wheathering techniques etc.    

  

[James H]

1 minute ago, Vane said:

I was just thinking about all the new techniques and materials you have introduced in the Vanguard models. Most manufacturers seem to stick with ply, walnut and white metal etc. Has there been some kind of resistance to use new materials in woodship building?  

Using resin for canons instead of moulded white metal or lathed metalbarrels significantly improves the details and quality. But do people argue its not "true" if not everything is done in the traditional materials?

A couple of years ago I started building plastics again and discovered that there is alot of useful stuff that would could be used to improve the quality of woodenships if not everything is done in "wood". The world of plastics has evolved significantly over the years with different paints, resin, 3d printing, wheathering techniques etc.    

  

 

You'll see a few new techniques in Indy too, such as for the construction of the cathead knees. You'll see more when that time comes

 

[allanyed]

Old Salt,

On 5/17/2022 at 7:07 AM, Oldsalt1950 said:

what if you broke the kit up similar to the way Chuck Passaro is doing the Winchelsea.

Great idea. If the builder wants to end up with an Admiralty style model without rigging it will save some money in not paying for materials that will not be used.  By the same token they can order the rigging set later or get/make their own blocks, rope, &c. as some bulders like to do.  Nothing wrong with having choices and it seems to work for Syren.

Allan

 

 

[chris watton]

53 minutes ago, Vane said:

I was just thinking about all the new techniques and materials you have introduced in the Vanguard models. Most manufacturers seem to stick with ply, walnut and white metal etc. Has there been some kind of resistance to use new materials in woodship building?  

Using resin for canons instead of moulded white metal or lathed metalbarrels significantly improves the details and quality. But do people argue its not "true" if not everything is done in the traditional materials?

A couple of years ago I started building plastics again and discovered that there is alot of useful stuff that would could be used to improve the quality of woodenships if not everything is done in "wood". The world of plastics has evolved significantly over the years with different paints, resin, 3d printing, wheathering techniques etc.    

  

I will use whatever I feel is best for the job, no matter what the material, if it is economically viable. For example, this week I have been working on the Indy stern decoration. Usually, the lighter decoration I do in PE, but this time, I am using PolyBak, and it looks pretty good. The PE on the stern of Indy will be the window frames and lantern brackets (window frames still way to delicate in 64th for PolyBak) 

[hollowneck]

13 minutes ago, chris watton said:

I will use whatever I feel is best for the job, no matter what the material, if it is economically viable. For example, this week I have been working on the Indy stern decoration. Usually, the lighter decoration I do in PE, but this time, I am using PolyBak, and it looks pretty good. The PE on the stern of Indy will be the window frames and lantern brackets (window frames still way to delicate in 64th for PolyBak) 

"Hear Ye! Hear Ye!" ...Oh, yeah!..I have absolutely no problem combining plastic and wood. Acrylic paint, mineral spirits stain and polyurethane sealant. Ditto Resin & PolyBak. Laserboard and cardboard.

Chris' process is called "Using Creative Technology." 

Bravo!

Edited May 20, 2022 by hollowneck

[hollowneck]

On 5/18/2022 at 9:32 AM, chris watton said:

Etched decks negate all of this.

Amen.

[mtaylor]

Interesting thoughts about doing the model and a separate rigging kit.   Looking at the Sphinx, there's not that much in the box but yes it could be a "part 2 of the kit" thing.   I'm looking at this from a builder perspective who's display area is limited and thus, masting and rigging from here on is out of the question.   But, if for manufacturing, packaging, etc. reasons it's included, so be it.  I'll just stash those things for now and if the time comes I have more room, I'd consider adding the masts and rigging.  I learned a long time ago that there's such things as a "build and forget" model.  

[James H]

7 minutes ago, mtaylor said:

Interesting thoughts about doing the model and a separate rigging kit.   Looking at the Sphinx, there's not that much in the box but yes it could be a "part 2 of the kit" thing.   I'm looking at this from a builder perspective who's display area is limited and thus, masting and rigging from here on is out of the question.   But, if for manufacturing, packaging, etc. reasons it's included, so be it.  I'll just stash those things for now and if the time comes I have more room, I'd consider adding the masts and rigging.  I learned a long time ago that there's such things as a "build and forget" model.  

 

Out of a potential 16kg pack, the mast/rig stuff isn't going to make much of a dent in things.

[mtaylor]

11 minutes ago, James H said:

 

Out of a potential 16kg pack, the mast/rig stuff isn't going to make much of a dent in things.

I agree.  And then there's the headache of having another item on inventory with boxing., etc.    

 

I did notice a t;ypo in my last line.... it should read "there's not such thing as a "build and forget" model."