uss frolick Posted April 16, 2022 Share #1861 Posted April 16, 2022 Chris, will the forecastle bulwarks be open, as was in the original plan, or planked over, after the change to a nearly all carronade upper deck armament? Canute, mtaylor and thibaultron 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris watton Posted April 16, 2022 Author Share #1862 Posted April 16, 2022 8 hours ago, uss frolick said: Chris, will the forecastle bulwarks be open, as was in the original plan, or planked over, after the change to a nearly all carronade upper deck armament? When I have completed most of the hull on my test bed model, I will show it on here and explain my decisions regarding the choices I have made Dave_E, KentM, mtaylor and 2 others 5 Vanguard Models on Facebook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glbarlow Posted April 16, 2022 Share #1863 Posted April 16, 2022 Happily indicating my maritime ignorance, where was the ship “cut down” to make it a razee, just a gun deck or was there something above the now q deck, poop deck as well? hollowneck, Canute, mtaylor and 2 others 5 Regards, Glenn Current Build: HMS Winchelsea Completed Builds: HM Flirt (paused) HM Cutter Cheerful, Lady Nelson, Amati HMS Vanguard, HMS Pegasus, Fair American, HM Granado, HM Pickle, AVS, Pride of Baltimore, Bluenose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris watton Posted April 16, 2022 Author Share #1864 Posted April 16, 2022 7 minutes ago, glbarlow said: Happily indicating my maritime ignorance, where was the ship “cut down” to make it a razee, just a gun deck or was there something above the now q deck, poop deck as well? According to Robert Gardiner's Frigates of the Napoleonic Wars, Indy (and the other two razee's converted at the same time) had the quarterdeck and forecastle removed, and transforming the old upper gun deck into a frigate style quarterdeck with gangways. But because the great cabin was at this same level, a poop was needed, and the position of the stern and quarter galleries betrayed their origins as a two decker. She must have looked very distinctive when compared to standard frigates in her squadrons, with her oddly positioned stern and quarter lights and of course, being on average around 15 feet longer than a standard 36 and 38, and the full mast and spar plan as a standard 64 (although with the main mast cut down to compensate for the one missing deck). So Indy does have a certain 'Beefy' look about her. BenD, mtaylor, Craigie65 and 11 others 13 1 Vanguard Models on Facebook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris watton Posted April 22, 2022 Author Share #1865 Posted April 22, 2022 OK, I now have the Saucy Jack kit available, as my boxes just arrived, and those were the only thing I was waiting for (apart from premium sail sets) Saucy Jack – Barking Well-Smack – VANGUARD MODELS All kits with optional sail sets now have a sail set included, with the premium sails as an optional extra. I am including the 'standard' sail sets at no extra cost, as the quality is not what I expected and do not expect my customers to spend a Penny on them. This has been a disappointing lesson for me - sail sets made by the same people who produce for other manufacturers do not 'gel' with the overall quality of the kits I offer. The 'premium' sail sets are produced my Master-Korabel of Russia, and I was expecting a full shipment of all sail sets for all kits that have them. Unfortunately, yesterday, I only received sets for the Fifie and Zulu, and not Nisha, Erycina and Saucy Jack. I am OK for Nisha and Erycina for now, but would have liked the Saucy Jack sails available for the release of the kit, today. I am currently awaiting an ETA for these, but they are being produced and they will be available in the next few weeks. The picture shows the model with the premium sails. I have two sample sets made and sent when developing these kits, and then order the production quantities soon after. These were ordered in February, so under normal circumstances, I would have had these available as stock already. Edwardkenway, Dave_E, coxswain and 38 others 39 2 Vanguard Models on Facebook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris watton Posted May 4, 2022 Author Share #1866 Posted May 4, 2022 (edited) OK, little update. Designs for Indefatigable are now about 85% complete. The pictures shown are of the pre-prototype, so looks very rough as usual, as many parts have been glued, ripped off and new parts added in place - and is built for part checking only (just like Sphinx). There are still a few mistakes on this prototype model, so does not entirely reflect the final designs. I have also included a drawing I did of the basic outline of what I think Indy would have looked like during most of her career. The only concession I have made is keeping the forecastle timberheads, rather than berthing up this area, with the decision based purely on aesthetics (plus the plans show this anyway. What I did change is the quarter bulwarks. I know she had 7 gun ports per side and three (with spare chase port) at the bow, so the 7th port had to be worked in, and this meant altering the bulwarks to the same height. I have placed the additional 12 pounder long chase guns right at the front, as I could not see Pellew being chased, more the chaser... I have tried to keep the poop profile as low as I can. Pellew didn't even want the poop at all, and would have been happy to have his cabin on the main gun deck and Indy fitted with sloop like quarter badges (would have looked odd..). With this in mind, I have kept the poop profile to a minimum, as I am sure Pellew would not have requested anything that would have increased windage. I will add 'iron stanchions' to this area, and that's it. I have the bow area to design, which will be the last of the main areas, and then I need to do all the photo etched parts. (Oh, and of course, a figurehead and stern decoration - which will be minimal). For the first time, I decided to go with laser cut and engraved columns for in between all lights/windows, and I am very happy with how they turned out. Channels are made by laminating three patterns together, a wider and thicker centre and not so wide and thinner top and bottom. You will be able to build this without the open slots in the decks if you so wish, they are not mandatory. The stand is 4mm acetate and a 2mm duel colour engraved nameplate. ETA - Forgot to mention, I have moved the poop skylight back by 3 beams, as I realised it was too close the edge of the poop, so it is now over the great cabin, and not in the position shown. Edited May 4, 2022 by chris watton jpalmer1970, drjeckl, Vane and 56 others 40 1 18 Vanguard Models on Facebook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris watton Posted May 4, 2022 Author Share #1867 Posted May 4, 2022 (edited) Forgot to add my initial side profile I did before I started designs.. The production model will be shown with coppered bottom, and fully painted sides in black and yellow ochre (The figurehead is from Vanguard, and used as a placeholder until I get her own made) Edited May 4, 2022 by chris watton thibaultron, Wacom, AJohnson and 25 others 28 Vanguard Models on Facebook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Greig Posted May 4, 2022 Share #1868 Posted May 4, 2022 Fabulous ship. Sure looks like another winner. This model looks very impressive. regards Malcolm hollowneck, Oboship, CaptnBirdseye and 4 others 7 Completed builds; Caldercraft Mars; Vanguard Alert, Amati Revenge On the shelf; Vanguard DOK & the Sphinx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Ensign Posted May 4, 2022 Share #1869 Posted May 4, 2022 Great comparison shot with Sphinx, my younger self would have gone for Indy in a heartbeat, but where’s an old man to put such a beast in a house already full of ship models. I think you will have a winner on your hands Chris, I look forward to seeing her develop. B.E. thibaultron, Ryland Craze, mtaylor and 12 others 15 Current Build: HMS Indefatigable-1794-by-blue-ensign-vanguard-models-164-scale Medway-longboat-1742-by-blue-ensign-½”-scale Completed builds: HMS Sphinx 1775 by Blue Ensign. 1:64 scale - Vanguard Models Queen-Anne-Royal-Barge-circa-1700-by-Blue-Ensign Fifie fishing boat Lady Eleanor Muirneag-1903-–-a-scottish-zulu-fishing-boat-164-scale-based-on-the-vanguard-models-zulu-kit/ HM Cutter Alert 1777 HM Cutter Cheerful 1806 18th-century-English-longboat-by-Blue-Ensign-ms-148-scale/ finished 18thc English Pinnace by Blue Ensign-Model-Shipways-1:24 scale/ finished HMS-Pegasus-by-Blue-Ensign-finished-Victory-Models-1:64-scale/ Heller Seventy-four 1:150 scale - modified Le Superbe/Le Glorieux kit after Boudriot, waterline setting with sails. The schooner Pickle, Jotika pob kit 1:64 scale, my interpretation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccoyle Posted May 4, 2022 Share #1870 Posted May 4, 2022 2 hours ago, chris watton said: I have also included a drawing I did of the basic outline of what I think Indy would have looked like during most of her career. The only concession I have made is keeping the forecastle timberheads, rather than berthing up this area, with the decision based purely on aesthetics (plus the plans show this anyway. Chris, I love your descriptions of the design process, since your work in bringing this new kit subject to market stands in sharp contrast to the efforts of Certain Unnamed Foreign Enterprises who somehow only manage to design "new" kits for which detailed plans just so happen to already have been published by AOTS, ANCRE, or Seawatch. 🙄 BenD, uss frolick, chris watton and 11 others 14 Chris Coyle Greer, South Carolina When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk. - Tuco Current builds: Brigantine Phoenix, Salmson 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oboship Posted May 4, 2022 Share #1871 Posted May 4, 2022 "...so looks very rough as usual" 👀 You call this rough?? Best regards Uwe hollowneck, thibaultron, AJohnson and 5 others 3 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris watton Posted May 4, 2022 Author Share #1872 Posted May 4, 2022 15 minutes ago, Oboship said: "...so looks very rough as usual" 👀 You call this rough?? Best regards Uwe Well, relatively, yes, very rough. It has been built just to check parts - planking took almost a week, but I needed to plank it full to check all designed parts. One thing, as I mentioned, there will be quite a few changes for the production prototype that Jim will have. Nothing major, more refinements. For example, the waist rail will be in two layers of strip, not one as shown, and as already mentioned, the poop skylight. All hull detail above upper deck level is pre cut. The poop barricade is my idea, and I have integrated belaying racks either side, in lieu of the missing mizzen bitts. The flag lockers at the stern will be populated with PE parts (square compartments). For the quarter gallery tile effect, I have opted for laser cut black card. I think they are much easier to apply than PE parts, using PVA wood glue, and look better too. I was not 100% sure about the poop step gangways, should I keep them, or have the steps directly attached to the poop? problem is, if I do that, the steps are very close to a 42 pounder, so kept with the platforms. As Indefatigable was stationed in home waters at the beginning of her career, I do wonder if she would have had all of the latest 'innovations' early on, like quarter davits. Bet she did... Anyway, still a lot to do. I will send Jim the production parts in the next couple of weeks, once I have nailed the bow area. Canute, Oboship, thibaultron and 14 others 17 Vanguard Models on Facebook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenD Posted May 4, 2022 Share #1873 Posted May 4, 2022 WOW that is a huge ship! The Sphinx is so small beside this. The Inde has a quite a bit of width also, definitely has the bones of a ship of the line. Canute, mtaylor, Oboship and 3 others 6 Ropes of Scale.com - Rope and cable for the scale modeler. Finished builds: HM Cutter Sherbourne - Caldercraft - 1:64 - 9th century longship - Falkonet - 1:72 Current builds: HMS Snake - Caldercraft - 1:64 - Tender Avos by BenD - Master Korabel - 1:72 - 19th Century Four-Oared Yawl by BenD - Falkonet - 1:24 scale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris watton Posted May 4, 2022 Author Share #1874 Posted May 4, 2022 (edited) 15 minutes ago, BenD said: WOW that is a huge ship! The Sphinx is so small beside this. The Inde has a quite a bit of width also, definitely has the bones of a ship of the line. yeah - Illustrates the world of difference between Post Ship and a Super Frigate! (Indy being around 15 feet longer along the gun deck than standard 38's of her day) Am sure it has been mentioned elsewhere, but I will be included some of BenD's excellent rope in the Indy kit, most notably the anchor hawse and the larger diameter mast stays. Also forgot to mention, the stern name and depth markings are waterslide decals this time. Name being yellow ochre and depth markings are in white - there will be two sets for each kit (and already have them here with me), as I know mistakes can happen when applying. Edited May 4, 2022 by chris watton Saburo, BobG, markjay and 13 others 11 4 1 Vanguard Models on Facebook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_E Posted May 4, 2022 Share #1875 Posted May 4, 2022 (edited) Full masts, yards and rigging? Edited May 4, 2022 by Dave_E mtaylor, Canute, hollowneck and 1 other 4 Dave Current builds: Rattlesnake Completed builds: Lady Nelson On the shelf: NRG Half Hull Project, Various metal, plastic and paper models Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nirvana Posted May 4, 2022 Share #1876 Posted May 4, 2022 O'boy, I would love to have Indy in my collection. What a beauty! Saburo, thibaultron, Dave_E and 4 others 7 Please, visit our Facebook page! Respectfully Per aka Dr. Per@Therapy for Shipaholics Finished: T37, BB Marie Jeanne - located on a shelf in Sweden, 18th Century Longboat, Winchelsea Capstan Current: America by Constructo, Solö Ruff, USS Syren by MS, Bluenose by MS Viking funeral: Harley almost a Harvey Nautical Research Guild Member - 'Taint a hobby if you gotta hurry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris watton Posted May 4, 2022 Author Share #1877 Posted May 4, 2022 6 minutes ago, Dave_E said: Full masts, yards and rigging? I have never designed a model ship kit without mast and rig. Indy is no exception - I did mention just a couple of posts up that mast stays will have BenD's rope. Kusawa2000, Wahka_est, Dave_E and 13 others 16 Vanguard Models on Facebook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobG Posted May 4, 2022 Share #1878 Posted May 4, 2022 Holy smokes...that model is incredibly impressive! Outstanding work, Chris! 👏 Ryland Craze, Dave_E, hollowneck and 4 others 7 Bob Garcia "Measure once, cuss twice!" Current Builds: Hms Brig-Sloop Flirt 1782 - Vanguard Models Pen Duick - Artesania Latina 1:28 Completed: Medway Longboat 1742 - Syren Ship Model Co. Member of the Nautical Research Guild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtaylor Posted May 4, 2022 Share #1879 Posted May 4, 2022 Beautiful model, Chris even if it's just a build/engineering prototype. That model is going to attract a lot of attention and hopefully sales for you. Canute, Ryland Craze, thibaultron and 5 others 7 1 Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris watton Posted May 4, 2022 Author Share #1880 Posted May 4, 2022 11 minutes ago, BobG said: Holy smokes...that model is incredibly impressive! Outstanding work, Chris! 👏 8 minutes ago, mtaylor said: Beautiful model, Chris even if it's just a build/engineering prototype. That model is going to attract a lot of attention and hopefully sales for you. Cheers both! I hope so, too, I have wanted to do this one since Agamemnon, 23 years ago, so want to do the subject the justice it deserves. Dave_E, Saburo, BenD and 19 others 20 2 Vanguard Models on Facebook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tankerman Posted May 5, 2022 Share #1881 Posted May 5, 2022 Chris, I built your Agamemnon some fifteen years ago a couple of years after I retired from work and enjoyed every minute of it. Indefatigable looks like being an incredible model and I wish you every success with the forthcoming kit. Canute, Saburo, hollowneck and 22 others 22 3 Going up to Bahrain on the Caltex Cannonball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris watton Posted May 5, 2022 Author Share #1882 Posted May 5, 2022 Very nice, Tankerman! Aggy is one subject I may revisit at some point, I already have the full bulkhead line drawings for the 2 decker Indy when designing the razee. Canute, BenD, mtaylor and 9 others 12 Vanguard Models on Facebook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mugje Posted May 5, 2022 Share #1883 Posted May 5, 2022 (edited) That Indy is a beautiful design! I wish i had more money on my bank account! 😮 Edited May 5, 2022 by mugje BenD, Dave_E, thibaultron and 4 others 4 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris watton Posted May 5, 2022 Author Share #1884 Posted May 5, 2022 42 minutes ago, mugje said: That Indy is a beautiful design! I wish i had more money on my bank account! 😮 This is always the risk when 'pushing the boat out' with kits, especially the larger ones. They cost a hell of a lot to develop in time, energy and materials. However, this will not be released for another 6-8 months at least. Hate to think of what the final kit box weight is.. Nirvana, KentM, BobG and 9 others 12 Vanguard Models on Facebook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldsalt1950 Posted May 5, 2022 Share #1885 Posted May 5, 2022 I guess I should start saving up my pieces of eight for the release date. Dave_E, Ryland Craze, Canute and 5 others 8 Current Build: Fair American - Model Shipways Awaiting Parts - Rattlesnake On the Shelf - English Pinnace 18Th Century Longboat I stand firmly against piracy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_E Posted May 5, 2022 Share #1886 Posted May 5, 2022 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Oldsalt1950 said: I guess I should start saving up my pieces of eight for the release date. Right there with you. After watching the Hornblower series like 4 or 5 times, there is no ship model I would like to build more. Edited May 5, 2022 by Dave_E BobG, Ryland Craze, chris watton and 7 others 10 Dave Current builds: Rattlesnake Completed builds: Lady Nelson On the shelf: NRG Half Hull Project, Various metal, plastic and paper models Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldsalt1950 Posted May 5, 2022 Share #1887 Posted May 5, 2022 Figure it will be about 2/3 of a month's military pension for me. hollowneck, BobG, Dave_E and 5 others 7 1 Current Build: Fair American - Model Shipways Awaiting Parts - Rattlesnake On the Shelf - English Pinnace 18Th Century Longboat I stand firmly against piracy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn-UK Posted May 5, 2022 Share #1888 Posted May 5, 2022 (edited) Whatever the cost it will be money well spent. I will certainly add it to my Vanguard Models fleet. Edited May 5, 2022 by glennard2523 hollowneck, BobG, thibaultron and 8 others 11 Glenn (UK) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris watton Posted May 5, 2022 Author Share #1889 Posted May 5, 2022 I think the build time for this kit will be an average of around 2 years, with the end result being a very nice scale model of one of the most famous of frigates. A lot has changed since starting the designs, and a lot of areas have been 'upgraded'. For example, the forecastle and quarterdeck beams were originally in 6mm MDF (as I initially never intended to have the open decks option), and for the kit, they will be 6mm thick pear. There will be many 3-d printed parts, but only where they benefit the overall appearance of the completed model. The belfry for example, is a one piece print, with only the wooden bell cross beam and brass bell being separate. Anchors were originally done in MDF, but are now 3-d printed parts. Cannon are correct in scale and shape, and not 'about right, give or take..' - and the quarter galleries have simple seats of ease! Today I changed the poop arrangement slightly. As I moved the skylight back so that it is now over the great cabin, I saw no reason not to add mizzen bitts and belaying cross rail, so I did, and deleted the belaying rails that were on the poop barricades. Also, I deleted the coamings for the Top Tackle and Pump Scuttles, and moved the gratings to the 0.8mm pear sheet - as I realised these never had raised coamings. Tomorrow I shall start on the various cleats for the bulwarks and decks, and then move onto the bow area. Once this is done, I need to number everything up, make a parts list, and start cutting for Jim. After this, I will carry on with all the PE and work out a figurehead and the modest stern décor for the Indy. I don't think this Indy will look very much like the one on the TV series... kurtvd19, hollowneck, Gord-Canada and 17 others 20 Vanguard Models on Facebook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldsalt1950 Posted May 5, 2022 Share #1890 Posted May 5, 2022 The price will not be a problem, space for the finished ship, and the time for building it will. chris watton, Canute, BobG and 5 others 8 Current Build: Fair American - Model Shipways Awaiting Parts - Rattlesnake On the Shelf - English Pinnace 18Th Century Longboat I stand firmly against piracy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts