Can i live without a BYRNES TABLE SAW

[michael mott]

Shihawk, there are some very thoughtful and wise comments regarding the saw and various other tools so far in this thread about your question, that fact that you asked the question leads me to think that you are not sure yet.

Greg's post outlining the difference between making something by hand or with machine tools, speaks to a few issues;

 

First his choice to reject an item made with hand tools for an item made with machines. His reason he liked the accuracy of the latter better.

 

Second, he cited the difference in time that each item took to make. The hand made item took longer than the machine made item.

 

Third, the difference in the number of tools used to make the item, four machine tools, disc sander, lathe, drill press, table saw. versus one power tool and a hand tool, Dremel, chisel.

 

Now to my point, all tools require a degree of comfort for you to be able to use them to their greatest advantage, this takes time and practice regardless of the tool, power, machine or hand. As you continue to develop your skills (this is a lifetime activity,anyone who disagrees is lying) you will come to a point where you decide how you want to continue working, because each tool has its advantages and disadvantages, and only you can make that choice as to how you want to proceed.

 

A final comment about quality of workmanship, many of the cherished models in the museums were made without electricity, that is the ultimate beauty of a hand tool.

 

Michael

[shihawk]

Maybe put it off till next Christmas 

[Roman]

As Frank Lloyd Wright used to say... "Take care of the luxuries the necessities will take care of themselves". You may or may not agree with him, buy it while you can.

Edited November 15, 2014 by Roman

[ccoyle]

I am living without a table saw, band saw, scroll saw, disc sander, and scratch-building.  It's hard, but my support group helps me cope.

[SJSoane]

Echoing earlier comments, I have few regrets in life other than buying cheap tools, and then soon after buying better tools. They make all the difference in the world to your confidence and quality, and I could have saved a lot of money over the years buying once to last a lifetime, rather than thinking I could make do and then replacing....

[shihawk]

thanks folks for all the good advice and comments i think perhaps i can live without the saw, temporarily anyway ,. When i think about i don,t realy have enough use for it to justify it ,maybe if i ever reach the scratch building stage i will reconsider . I ordered a Domanoff nanogrinder and serving machine which i hope  will be of more use to me at my present build stage and satisfies my new tool cravings for a while at least . Before buying anything a cooling off period is adviseable , sleep on it for a week ,it could save on a few expensive ornaments ??

[fnick]

a French comedian (can't remember which one) said

 

"You never grow up. It's just the price of the toys that changes. " How true.

 

Nick

[NMBROOK]

Hi Boyd

The one piece of advise I would offer,if you do decide to buy a table saw don't make the same mistake as me,save the extra and buy the Byrnes not the Proxxon FET like me.Whilst the saw itself is fine,the precision repeat-ability of cuts using the saw guide is questionable.Yes there are ways around it involving lots of faffing,but this is one component I am less than impressed with.

 

Kind Regards

 

Nigel

[Nirvana]

Sorry for intruding, but I felt I like to be part of this conversation.

No, I don't have a Byrnes table saw, but it's on the "wishing list".

Because not having such I have been buying strips from Jeff at HobbyMill.

Since he is to close down his business there won't be any more of the high quality strips available.

See where I am heading?

And yes, buying ready made strips are more expensive than buying a plank and ripping it yourself.

Price difference may vary depending on the material, but I did a short comparison and found the strips being about three times more costly than a plank and ripping it.

Sure you will have a higher initial cost buying the Byrnes table saw, but it won't take much before it has paid itself versus buying strips.

I do have the thickness sander and am very happy with it.

But this is only my two cents.

 

Ps. The Byrnes table saw can be used in other applications besides ship modelling.

[Trussben]

Simple answer is Yes, but why would you want too.

 

Ben

[garyshipwright]

Here is the ideal behind getting a Byrnes tool, weither it be his table saw or his sander, they are outstanding tools and one will get many years of happy returns on them, much like me.    . Now to give you other ideals, about buying them is to become able to buy larger timbers and save money. Yes they cost up front but think of the savings, like shipping and not having to worry about having the right size piece as your building your ship. To me I enjoy working with tools and, good ones for sure, like the Byrnes table saw. Here's a question, can you walk out in your back yard, cut off a tree limb and convert it to timbers for your ship? I really like be independent for relaying on buying stuff and having to wait on things. The money saved from buying ready made timbers allows me to buy those things that I don't have time to make or that new book from seawatch. Of course some will still buy ready made timbers which I have nothing against, much like buying a kit, or a cannon, or even a light like what Chuck offers which I do ever once in a while . Does one need a shop full of tools to build a ship, shoot no, all one needs is a good knife. Isn't that what the POW builders use. That is if they were allowed one. It does come down to each of us to ask that question do I need a Byrnes table saw? For me the answer was can you get it here yesterday.  O and the back yard was my mother who was wanting her holly tree cut down which I was more then happy to do.  

Gary 

Edited November 14, 2014 by garyshipwright

[Bob Blarney]

Just remember that many many fine models have been built with hand tools.  Why not look at a small Japanese saw, such as may be found at Harbor Freight for about $10.  At the Blue or Orange box stores, there are Vaughn 'bear' saws for about $20 that will cut a fine line.

[rtropp]

Is it possible to "rip" thick lumber, 1 to 2 inches thick, without a band saw or other full size tools?

 

I only have miniature tools such as the Byrnes saw and thickness sander, but do not have the space for full size tools. I considered the 9" table top models but they don't seem to have the strength or depth of cut to be very helpful even if I did have the room for them.  (I was told it was not a good idea to keep it outside, even under a protection, here in Georgia.)

 

Hence my question, how to "rip" a plank without using a band saw or other full size tools? 

 

Thanks all,

Richard

[GLakie]

 

Ps. The Byrnes table saw can be used in other applications besides ship modelling.

Have to agree with that! It'll be great for creating the joinery needed for boxes, chests, & drawers, ect. Already convinced myself, and it'll be a "done-deal" in January!     

 

Cheers   

[Cap'n Rat Fink]

Plain simple truth. Yes you can. End of story.

 

Mario

[shihawk]

I have most of the planking on my present build finished and will take 2-3 years probably to finish ,so unless i start a second build i wouldn,t get much use out of it for a while ,am thinking more now on a dust collection system ,as i started using my lathe and find the dust a problem  As regards buying a cheaper version i think it would be better waiting and buying the best ,a Byrnes saw.!!!!!!

[fletch944t]

Richard. Personally, I don't think the Byrnes saw is really up to the task of ripping 2" wood, especially if it's extremely hard wood. You might make it work but, I don't think I'd risk damaging a really expensive tool by using it for a purpose that it wasn't really intended.

 

I have a similar problem with space. Have you considered a portable 10" table saw with a rolling stand? They don't take a lot of room to store inside. And, they can be moved outside and set up quickly with minimal effort. That's actually the route I'm considering.

 

Also, don't rule out a circular saw for ripping thicker wood. Since I don't have a full size table saw (yet), I have for many years used a circular saw for all my ripping. In fact, many years ago, I made a very nice solid mahogany bookcase for my dad as a Christmas present and ripped all of the wood for that using only my circular saw. Most folks poo-poo the idea of ripping thicker woods with a circular saw. However, in my experience, most folks won't invest in a variety of blades appropriate for the cutting job or won't take the time to change out to the correct blade. If you already have a circular saw, I recommend investing in a high quality ripping blade and give that a try before you run out and invest in a larger table saw.

 

Bottom line is, if you think you going to be ripping 2" wood on a regular basis, consider a portable table saw with a rolling stand. If you think you're only going to be ripping 2" wood on an infrequent basis, use a circular saw.

 

Fletch

Edited December 8, 2014 by fletch944t

[GLakie]

10" table saws are great if you've got the room, but in my case, I'm doing all my work in an apartment with limited space. I do have a circular saw with guide clamps for longer cuts and a 10" compound miter saw for shorter stock. All of the rest of the power tools I have are either hand-held, or bench-top, including a drill-press, router table, and a 10" band-saw for doing re-saw work. Everything stows away completely out of site. So the Byrnes Saw and the Thickness Sander is all I need now to mill my own wood planking and in my case, is just what the doctor ordered. And, as I said, it's also useful for smaller joinery projects.

 

Cheers 

[rtropp]

Shihawk,

Sorry if I have misdirected this thread?  Should I start a new thread to continue?

 

Richard.

[GLakie]

Richard:  I don't think you've misdirected this thread. The question you asked about how to rip a plank "without" a band saw or full sized tools is valid. The best way to do it though IS with a band-saw if you have limited space like me. Craftsman makes a 10" that has plenty of power to rip 4.5" planks down. It's 34" tall and weighs 66 lbs. and it comes with a rip fence.  The key is using the right blade and rate of feed. Another option would be with a fold-up 10" table saw, but even they won't rip wood that thick, and it would take up a little more space. 

 

Cheers 

[flying_dutchman2]

At the NRG conference in St. Louis, I drooled just by looking at the Byrnes tools, thinking, I gotta get that saw. Now I am home and building my first scratch boat, thinking I don't really need one...... yet. The scroll saw, dremel, router and router table and hand tools go a long way. Maybe next year.

 

There is always being creative and improvising. I made a disc sander from my tool sharpener. I use the router to make grooves in the square dowels for the display case.

 

Marc

Edited December 8, 2014 by Marcus Botanicus

[shihawk]

Richard , don,t stop now it,s getting interesting

[Dan Vadas]

The perfect recipe for a workshop for scratch or semi-scratch builders:

 

1 part Byrnes table saw

1 part Byrnes thickness sander

1 part Byrnes disk sander

 

After simmering, add in 1 part Sherline Mill and 1 part Proxxon planer

Finish with Sherline lathe and mini drill press

 

 

I have all of the above except for the Planer. The tool most used out of them all is the Byrnes Table Saw .

 

Apart from the obvious uses you can't beat it for making very exact rebates, for example in Mast Tops :

 

 

Or for cutting planks to half thickness for the Top Floors :

 

 

  Danny

[shihawk]

 Can,t argue with that !!!!!!!!!!

[GLakie]

I'll 2nd that!! 

 

Cheers 

[Roman]

Is it possible to "rip" thick lumber, 1 to 2 inches thick, without a band saw or other full size tools?

 

Thanks all,

Richard

Richard if I am permitted to chime in on your question, the answer is yes but. Let me begin by saying that table saws are inefficient and dangerous beasts that occupy much real estate. I speak from experience as I have owned a number of them including a monstrous Altendorf F-45 capable of ripping 6 7/8" thick material (six and seven eight inches). It was not cheap and lets leave it at that. Someone else mentioned a Japanese saw and I agree with him. It will take practice and patience, but a Japanese Kataba saw with rip teeth will do a good job. They are not cheap but if you have the desire to spend the time they cut on the draw and have a finer blade than western saws. They are in my opinion easier to use.  A some what decent Kataba will set you back $45 to $60 U.S. There is also another Japanese tool called a "Kebiki Dai", it is a slitting gauge and can be used to make strips of wood. It looks like a western marking gauge.

 

 

You should consider a Bandsaw and a 6" Jointer and they do not have to be big. In fact if I could only choose one saw for my work the chosen one would be a Bandsaw. There is no tool in a shop that is more versatile and capable it takes very little room, quiet and has good cutting capacity far greater than a table saw even for a small machine. You need the jointer or a hand plane to true up or level the wood blank and the Bandsaw to rip, crosscut, miter, contour cut; put a sanding belt on the thing and sand. These two tools are easy to use and store as they are relatively small. I think Grizzly has a 6" Jointer that is even cheaper than the Porter Cable. I think the Rikon is $289 at Woodcraft less 10% and the Jointer at Lowe's around $269. Don't forget the tax.

 

Regards

Roman

Edited December 9, 2014 by Roman

[Twister]

Until I saw some of the workmanship on this site I would never have believed that having a saw that can be set to 1/1000" was necessary, for goodness sake, that's 3 - 4 sheets of printer paper!!! I guess the fact that it's capable of that is indicative of its overall quality though.

 

Personally, if the cash were burning a suitably sized hole in my pocket I'd jump at the opportunity (& get the sanding thicknesser also!). Mind you, I'd also want to know what the shipping was likely to be - it's a long way from the USA to the UK...

 

Row

[GLakie]

I can't say what the shipping is to the UK, but from Florida to Michigan, it $40 US just for the saw, don't know what the extras will be. I'll let you know in January.

 

Cheers 

[Nirvana]

Take a look at my topic of Japanese saw. I wrote this one back in 2013.

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/4171-japanese-saw/

[GLakie]

I've heard about these saws before. Great for finish work----a bit pricey for hand tools ----but very nice! 

 

Cheers