Bomb Vessel Granado 1742 by gjdale - FINISHED - 1/48 - Cross-Section

[cog]

On my screen 6 & 7 are invisible and 5 only partly visible. I would choose 3 & 4 having at least the merest look of being tree nailed. 1 & 2 are a bit dark to my taste

[cog]

Hi all,

 

Trying hard to keep up with Mobbsie, but this working for a living thing puts me at a distinct disadvantage!

 Grant,

 

I know, you get the distinct impression your work starts to interfere with your hobby

Edited March 5, 2015 by cog

[cog]

Mobbsi

 

 I'll try and slow down even more mate but we Brits aren't used to a snails pace.         

 

Be Good

 

mobbsie

 

 Local virus only? It didn't migrate to Australia, NZ, US ...?

[Rustyj]

Hi Grant.

 

I'd really like to see them sanded and the poly finish applied first.

 

I found out the hard way that the poly can really change the look.

[augie]

Definitely with Rusty on that.

[gjdale]

Thanks guys,

 

Rusty has it right! I've just applied some poly and will re-photograph in the morning.

[DocBlake]

I favor 3,4 or 5 ,but I'd like to see them finished, also.   

 

Dave

[gjdale]

Thanks for all the input folks. The big tip was from both Mobbsie and Rusty, in actually applying Poly to the test pieces before deciding, so that's exactly what I did: 

 

 

The Admiral was consulted and immediately No.s 2, 4 & 6 were ruled out as being too light, and No. 3 for being too dark. That left No.s 1, 5 & 7:

 

 

There was so little to distinguish between these three, that the choice came down to the method used.  No.7 used Boxwood sawdust mixed with diluted PVA.  No. 1 used a water-based wood filler, straight out of the jar. No. 5 was the same as No.1 but with a touch of Raw Sienna acrylic paint added.

 

No.7 ran the risk of leaving a glue residue on the wood surface.  No. 5 ran the risk of the paint staining the surrounding timber.  No.1 offered no down side, so became the final choice by default.

 

Cardboard templates were made up and drilled with a 0.4mm drill.  The templates were temporarily fixed in place using double sided tape and the holes drilled.

 

 

And here’s the resulting holes awaiting filler:

 

 

Before filling the holes, the hull was removed from the jig and the exterior sanded fair.  I cheated and used an electric “Mouse” sander for this.  I was a bit worried about how the hull would stand up to this, but it was surprisingly solid.  The Mouse made relatively short work of the fairing and did a very good job of it.  I forgot to take photos of the exterior though!     

 

While I was at it, I made up a temporary work stand for the hull using the templates provided in the drawings (intended as the display stand).  I just knocked this up using some scrap 6mm MDF and 6mm square stock for the stringers. I lined the inside with self adhesive felt to protect the hull while it is being worked on.

 

The holes were then filled and the excess filler wiped off with a damp cloth.  The whole of the interior up to and including the Mortar Pit Deck Clamps, was then given two coats of Wipe-On Poly (applied with a brush), with a light rub of steel wool between coats. The end result is faint, but distinguishable treenails - I'm quite pleased with how they turned out.   

 

 

 

 

In the following photo, you can see the temporary work stand:

 

 

And finally, here’s a couple of overall shots of where she’s at now:

 

 

 

Still tossing up about adding bolts to the Deck Clamps……….

[cog]

Grant,

 

That's some lovely treenailing you've got there, not to dark and stil visible. Great work!!

Edited March 7, 2015 by cog

[augie]

Good choice and well done.  Last photo is ------ impressive!

[mobbsie]

OK, Officially jealous now. That's a great job mate.

 

You gotta go for the Deck Clamp Bolts.

 

Be Good

 

mobbsie

[Trussben]

Agree with Mobbsie - go all the way!

 

Ben

[Jack Panzeca]

Hi Grant,

 

Holy S**t that is gorgeous!!!  Great choices and better execution.     The last couple of photos really show the excellence.  

[Rustyj]

I LIKE IT!   Well done Grant and I agree. Do the bolts.

[rafine]

It looks great Grant. Just  right.

 

Bob

[scratch]

You guys have really lifted the bar on these cross sections . Beautiful work Grant .  

 

David

[mtaylor]

Lovely work Grant.  I agree... do the bolts.

[gjdale]

Thanks everyone for all the kind comments and the likes.  I have a dilemma and am hoping that some of you knowledgeable folk can help me......

 

I had assumed that the Deck Clamps would be secured in place with a system of iron bolts.  However, I can find no specific reference for this.  I have checked through AOTS, TFFM and EdT's Naiad books and unless I'm reading right past it, I can't find a reference anywhere to guide me in this.

 

Would they be bolted or treenailed?

 

If bolted, what is the appropriate size?

 

What bolting pattern would be used?

 

What I've come up with so far, all assumption I might add, is that the bolts would be no more than 1" diameter (full size), which scales to about 0.5mm for this build.  That "feels" about right, when compared to the 0.8mm bolts used in the frames and keelson.

 

As far as patterns go, I am making an assumption that there would be at least one bolt in each frame, and two for the wider clamps.  In this instance, the Mortar Pit Deck Clamp (Upper) is 24" wide (full size) and looks to be wide enough to have two bolts per frame, while it's partner (MPDC Lower) is 15" wide (full size) and looks about right for one bolt per frame, but in a staggered pattern.

 

I've made up some templates for the bolting pattern described above.  

 

 

Before I commit to this, I'd love to hear any and all advice.

 

 

[cog]

One thing which springs to my mind is, why add more weight to an already heavy build ship. Would tree nails do the job ... Without the knowledge, and/or reference material it is a difficult decision to make I might say ... Nothing available at the NMM?

Edited March 8, 2015 by cog

[mtaylor]

Hmmm... Toni added "bolts" to her deck clamps.  Danny apparently didn't or he just didn't cover the installation.  Remco treenailed.  Alexandru appears to have bolts.    From just that sampling,I'd say go either way... but, logic to me says bolting would be more secure.  Or maybe a mix.. 

 

Edit:  I realized that this probably isn't much help... not definitive. 

Edited March 8, 2015 by mtaylor

[gjdale]

Thanks Mark,

 

That actually IS quite helpful - it shows that either/any approach could be considered "correct".

[gjdale]

Mark's post suggests to me that perhaps there is plenty of room for "interpretation" here.

 

So, I've gone ahead and prepared a test piece using a "spare" Mortar Pit Deck Clamp.  This has used 0.5mm Copper Wire, using the template I showed earlier, then sanded back, blackened with LoS, and then one coat of Wipe-on Poly applied.  I've just placed it on the model to get an idea of what it will look like in situ.  In the picture, you can see the treenails in the planking below as a comparison. Pay no attention to the light coloured "dots" on the right hand end of the test piece - they were from earlier treenail tests.

 

 

I think this is looking okay - not overdone.  Grateful for any and all opinions/comments.

 

 

[Mike Y]

Looks great!

[mobbsie]

Hi Grant,

 

Your test piece has come out really well mate, I reckon you should go for it.

 

I'm going to be a little controversial here and say that I think nails were used rather than bolts and certainly not treenails. When you consider the weight the clamps had to take plus the shock and pressure applied when the Mortar was fired, nails would have a tighter grip and a lot less play over time.  

 

Bolts or Nails it makes no difference at this scale as they will be the same size and the same system will be used.

 

I shall be a little ways behind you for a while whilst I wait for my LoS to arrive.

 

Be Good

 

mobbsie

[gjdale]

Thanks guys,

 

Mobbsie has posted a little bit of research on his log, dug up for us by Wayne, that suggests the use of "nails". And I agree with Mobbsie's rationale of the weight/shock factors requiring extra strength - at least it makes sense to me......

 

.....which is a roundabout way of saying, I'm going to go ahead as previously described and shown in my test piece!

 

Mobbsie - your definition of being "behind" is, shall we say, questionable?!!! Knowing you, you'll have the shell room finished by tomorrow evening!

 

I'll be away for a couple of weeks coming up, so it may be a while before another update.

[mobbsie]

Not Quite mate but it wont be long.  

 

Be Good

 

mobbsie

[Canute]

The clamp looks good with the black fasteners and poly, Grant.

 

I would think bolts would be stronger than nails to hold the clamp in. Would the force of the mortar firing translate into pulling the fasteners out? Did the crew have to get down under the mortar to check those fasteners every time they fired the mortar?

 

P.S. I didn't read Mobbsie's post before I wrote about the bolts.

Edited March 9, 2015 by Canute

[augie]

Didn't want to chime in earlier with all the 'guidance' you were getting.  Bolts were the way to go  .  They look great.

 

Have a safe trip.  We'll keep a tether on Mobbsie during your absence.

[mtaylor]

Have a safe trip, Grant.   The black nails/bolts (call them what you want  ) look great.

 

I'm stealing your spale idea....   :D    

[gjdale]

I've been away for the last couple of weeks, but did finally manage to get some shipyard time in this weekend.  When last we  met, I had decided to go ahead with the Deck Clamp Bolts.  Here are a few pics of the final product – the pics appear somewhat streaky as the Wipe-on Poly was still wet when the pics were taken.

 

 

 

 

 

With this job out of the way, it was time to make a start on construction of the Shell Room.........

 

Shell Room Construction

 

Construction of the Shell Room begins with the fitting of the lower support beams, made from 5/16” square Pear, across the Floor Riders, with cross beams added in situ to ensure a proper fit.

 

 

Once the glue had dried, the frame assembly was removed from the model for further construction and fit-out.  The next step was to install the deck planks.  These are made from Holly, 1/16” x 1/8”.  I opted to simulate caulking using black paper as I wanted to see how this would look, knowing that once the assembly was completed, this deck would hardly be visible.  I also added treenails, using the drill and fill method as described previously.

 

 

In the above photo, you may notice three filled holes towards the left hand end (one in each beam).  This was where I incorrectly transferred one measurement before drilling.  I have filled the incorrect holes with a mixture of Pear sawdust and diluted PVA.  Once the assembly is complete, these will be barely visible, so I’m going to live with it. I've also just noticed that a couple of "treenails" in the Holly decking have come adrift and need replacing......

 

The pillars to support the shell racks were the next to be made.  No particular rocket science here, but a great job for the Sherline Mill after cutting the blanks on the Byrnes saw.  I constructed a small jig to hold all 18 pieces, then cut the dados (which are 2mm deep) in two passes of 1 mm each, using a 5/64” end mill cutter.  The only issue I had in this job was caused by operator error when I failed to ensure that the cutter was securely held in the mill.  The net result was that I destroyed half of my blanks in one pass.  No biggie – just whipped up some more blanks on the Byrnes saw and replaced the duds. (Did I mention I love my Byrnes saw?.........and my Sherline Mill?)

 

 

The pillars were also drilled in each end to take one end of a 1.5mm diameter brass locating pin (to match the holes drilled in the support beams).

 

Finally, here is an overall shot of all the components of the shell room.  The Shells themselves are ¼” diameter beads – they  may be just a tad undersize, so I’m holding off on drilling out the shell racks until I find out whether I can source some slightly larger beads of the same type.