HMS Victory by gjdale - FINISHED - Mamoli - Scale 1:90

[Mike Y]

Just finished catching up with your log - incredible level of detail on such a small scale! Just... Wow!

[shihawk]

Even enlarging the pics the detail stays amazing , great work , I will be back 

[rafine]

That is just incredible Grant. A truly beautiful piece of work. 

 

 

Bob

[augie]

Really top rate.  The painting alone had to be a test.  Good choice on the new background.

[MEDDO]

Lovely, just lovely.

[gjdale]

Thank you Mike, Shihawk, Bob, Augie and Michael, and also to all of the "likes".  

 

It's been a while since I posted an update - not because I haven't done anything, but because I struck a problem and had to make some tough decisions.  I've said many times that the support and encouragement of everyone here has inspired me to continue to strive to always do better, and not to accept poor work just for the sake of moving on.  And so it was with this in mind that I got to a point with building the two 25' Cutters, that I came to the conclusion that they just weren't up to an acceptable standard, and  there was no fix that was going to make them that way.  So after mulling it over for a while, I have binned them and re-started the Cutters as Ver 2.0.

 

I wasn't going to post any further progress pics of Cutters Ver 1.0, but decided that sometimes we learn more from our mistakes than from our successes.  So, in the hope that others may gain something from my errors, I will post progress up to the point of termination.  I'll then follow up with a further two posts to show what I've been up to with Ver 2.0.  So here we go.....

 

Cutters Ver 1.0

 

I have previously posted pics of the frames and keel assembly into the building board.  This was the same technique as used successfully in building the 28' Pinnace.

 

The next step was addition of the Hawse Timbers:

 

 

And then fairing these:

 

 

Now it came to the planking.  I used 1/64" Holly for the planking, cut individually from some sheet stock.  Here is the Garboard plank going in, and probably the major source of all further errors.  I had decided to try applying the spiling technique to see how it would work in this miniature scale. You can see in the photo where some of the frames have been marked out using the tick strip method.

 

 

Next up, Scotch "Magic" Tape was applied and the line of the previous planked marked, along with the tick marks for the next plank:

 

 

The tape was then transferred to a piece of card stock and the shape faired in:

 

 

The cardboard template was cut out:

 

 

And checked against the hull:

 

 

The shape was then traced around onto a piece of Holly sheet, and cut out with the trusty Exacto:

 

 

This photo show the plank being glued and clamped.  Because of the very fine and fragile materials, I needed a clamp with a very light pressure. I found these hairdresser's clamps quite useful for this purpose (not an original idea, but a good one ).

 

 

I got to about here:

 

 

....and realised two things.  Firstly, the placement of the Garboard strake was such that it was causing too much of a downward curve in subsequent planks.  Secondly, the planks were not sticking to the frames around the bow, which were too delicate to force into place.  At this point I released the boats from the build jigs and confirmed that that the only course of action was termination.     

 

Many rude words and a good stiff drink later, Ver 2.0 was commenced.  

 

Some observations:

 

1. This framing technique is not suitable for a clinker planked hull. 

 

2. Spiling actually works, even at this scale, and is well worth the effort. 

 

3. Placement of the Garboard strake is absolutely critical to a successful planking job. 

 

See next post for commencement of Cutters Ver 2.0............ 

 

 

 

 

[Blue Ensign]

Your decision is to be admired Grant, I know the time and effort it takes to scratch these small boats and appreciate the frustration when after hours of work you realise you're never going to be satisfied with the result.

 

Your Pinnace is a little gem, and I know you'll get there with the cutters.

 

B.E.

[gjdale]

25' Cutters Ver 2.0

 

After terminating Cutters Ver 1.0, I thought long and hard about the various options for method.  I also recalled Remco drawing my attention to the tutorial written by David Antscherl when he and Greg Herbert offered a 1:48 scale 18' Cutter kit.  At one point, it was possible to download the instructions for this, although I don't know if it is still available.  Fortunately, I had previously downloaded it and, after some study, decided that I would follow this method with a few necessary modifications along the way - some because of the scale differences, and some because their kit offered a pre-made resin plug with features that I am unable to duplicate.

 

First up, Antscherl recommended that if one didn't own a set of Ship's Curves (sometimes known as French Curves), then one should make some from thin plywood using the templates provided.  Aye, aye Sir!

 

 

Next, I needed to make a plug (well, two actually - one for each boat).  I went back to my drawings/plans in my Warrior Practicum, scanned these into TurboCad and re-scaled them to produce the appropriate size.  By the way, at 1:90 scale, a 25' Cutter is just 3.3" long (or about 85mm).

 

I then printed the water line templates onto sticky label paper, cut out the waterlines from stock of appropriate thickness (I had previously prepared for this as an option when I ordered timber from Jeff Hayes at Hobbymill some time ago), and assembled the basic plug.  The dowel is to assist in aligning the plug components.  Each water line component uses a different timber.  The purpose of this is that the different colours of the timber show clearly where each waterline is (clever eh?!)

 

 

I then scored the station lines into the top and bottom paper patterns (using an Exacto knife) before removing the paper patterns. The scored lines are then easily traced over with pencil to show the station lines again:

 

 

I also used a template to mark in the Sheer Line, and scored this as well:

 

 

The plug was then shaped roughly using a sanding drum in the Dremel, and finished by hand to 600 grit. In this picture, you can see the effect of the different timbers in showing the waterlines.

 

 

 

Templates for the frames were printed onto sticky paper and attached to card stock to check the shaping of the hull at each station line, and along the keel.  The numbered lines on the frames represent the water lines, with the number 3 representing the Sheer line.

 

 

The station lines and Sheer line were then re-marked:

 

 

 

A piece of Tamiya masking tape was then applied to the excess plug above the Sheer Line before the hull was given several coats of sanding sealer.  The purpose of this is that the sanding sealer will help prevent the frames from sticking to the plug (I'll probably also wax this), while the masked off part will provide a good surface for the frame ends to adhere to the plug (they will be cut off later on).  I also attached a piece of scrap stock to the top of the plug to be used as a "handle".  This will come in handy for holding the pug in the vice during framing and planking.

 

 

Continued next post .........

 

I also

 

 

[alangr4]

 

Version 2 is looking good Grant. Incredibly fine work.

 

Bad luck about Ver 1 but will store away the hair clips usage. V clever.

 

Alan

[gjdale]

25' Cutters Ver 2.0 (continued): 

 

Having completed the plugs, it was time to commence work on the keel.

 

First up, a Profile Guide was used to extract the final shape of the plug along the keel line, and then transfer this to a card stock template:

 

 

This was done separately for each plug to account for slight variations in the final plug forms.  After several attempts, I had a cardboard template with which I was happy, and I then transferred this pattern to a sheet of 3/64" Boxwood.  I decided to cut the stem and main keel in one piece, accepting that the stem will be cut across the grain.  I figured this would be preferable than trying to make a decent scarf joint in something this small.

 

I then used the waste piece of Boxwood sheet as a former to bend a piece of 1/32" x 3/32" Pear strip to form the Apron.  This was then attached to the inner side of the Stem/Keel and hopefully will give it some extra strength.  In the photo below, an extra piece of Pear strip has been temporarily spot glued along the main keel to serve as spacer for aligning things along the plug. The spacer is the same thickness as the frames will eventually be. This is a  major point of deviation/difference from the Antscherl method in that his resin plug had slots cut for the frames to be inserted into.  I couldn't see a way to do that easily, so opted for attaching the frames on the outside of the plug, and the keel over the top of that.  The spacer will eventually be replaced with short sections of "hogging" strip (not sure if that's the right term) that will be placed on top of the keel and between the frames, providing a level surface on the inside of the frames along the keel.  The keel is left over length at the stern, to be adjusted at a later point.

 

 

 

Next up, the Transom and stern post were made.  Both are cut from 3/64" Boxwood sheet. They were cut separately so that the wood grain is in the correct direction for each piece.  The disadvantage is that there is a very small gluing area joining the two, so at the moment they are very fragile.

 

 

 

I have also cut the basic shape for the Stern Deadwood (or Stern Knee), but this will need to be finessed to fit with the Sternpost/Transom piece.

 

Finally, my latest toy (er, I mean tool) arrived today.  I decided to lash out and buy the Panavice swivelling vice, mounted on a vacuum base.  I thought it would be just the thing for working on these little boats - at least, that's what I told the Admiral  In this picture, you can also see the setup I've been using for photographing progress.  It's simply a piece of blue paper, clipped to two pieces of cardboard - the backing of a pad of writing paper, cut in half).  One half of the cardboard is inserted into a slot cut into a piece of MDF, which holds it vertical and hence provides a seamless transition to the horizontal piece.  A little tip I picked up from watching photography tutorials on YouTube.

 

 

Right, that's me up to date. A little fiddling to get the Stern Deadwood in place and the whole backbone will be complete. I'll then be ready to start on the frames.  Stay tuned................

[mobbsie]

Hi Grant,

 

I applaud you resolve to get the issues right mate, a lot of hours have just been binned and I might add some very nice work, hopefully you will be able to salvage some of the frames and the keel.

 

Ver 2.0 looks to be coming along nicely and as you say is a completely different method of building, best of luck with that mate. I'm sure all will turn out well on these two.

 

Cant wait to see what you do for the 12ft Jolly.     

 

Nice Vice mate, I have several vices but none like your new one, mine have only got me into a lot of trouble over the years.   :D  

 

Be Good

 

mobbsie

[rafine]

I don't know if I could have made the choice you did to scrap Ver. 1.0, but I admire you for it . Ver. 2.0 seems off to a great start. Go for it!

 

Bob

[trippwj]

Amazing work, Grant. Those plugs alone are beautiful pieces of art!

[Kevin]

absolutely fantastic work on the ships boats, and the case looks great

[augie]

I could not have made the choice to terminate V 1 and taken a completely different direction.  My hat's off to you, Sir.

 

Very nice work on the new plug and please be gentle with these latest pieces.  Fiddly work, to say the least.

 

And congrats on the new vise --- might be worth thinking about.

[gjdale]

Thank you all for your wonderful words of support and encouragement - they confirm that I made the right decision. In reality, once I could picture in my mind the whole building process with the new method, it was not a difficult choice. I'm already much happier and I haven't even got to the frames yet, let alone the planking.

[mtaylor]

I can honestly say that I understand how tough that decision is to make.  It seems be a correct and proper decision based upon what you showed and said.  The resulting rework is wonderful and you are obviously pleased. I'm thinking it looks fantastic.

[gjdale]

25' Cutters Ver 2.0 (continued)

 

A minor update.  I have completed the keel/backbone assemblies.  This was a fiddly job to say the least!

 

Here is a couple of pics of one of the completed keel sections. The temporary hogging strip has now been removed.

 

 

 

I had to cut a slot into the stern of the plugs in order to fit the stern post in, which was essential to getting the transom in place:

 

 

Finally, here is pic showing a completed keel assembly on top of the plug. The space between the keel and the plug will be filled by frames and sections of hogging strip in due course.

 

 

So far, so good.  Next up......the frames............    

[mobbsie]

Boy that is some delicate work there mate and I guess it will remain so for some time to come, at least until you are able to get some form of temporary strapping onto the ribs.

 

If your anything like me, you get to a fiddly bit and then you sneeze, cough or your hand wont stop shaking, makes for an interesting life don't it.

 

Watching with interest Grant.

 

Be Good

 

mobbsie

[MEDDO]

This looks great. I'm still amazed at how small it is.

[mikec]

Awesome Grant, you are doing a fantastic job. a wealth of tips for everyone when building such small scale boats.

cheers

[gjdale]

Thanks Mobbsie, Michael and Mike (and all the "likes").

 

Cutters Ver 2.0 (continued)

 

Well, these little boats have certainly been a case of experimentation, re-do and "make it up as you go along"!     

 

Fortunately, I've had a couple of weeks leave to work on these, so this has given me some thinking space - and boy, have I needed it! 

 

I said previously that I'm basically following the method used by David Antscherl and Greg Herbert, with some modifications.  One of those was to be that I did not intend to carve grooves into the plug for the frames, intending instead to simply bend the frames over the plug lines.  I tried this, using a double laminate of 1/64" x 1/16" Holly and found two things not to my liking:

 

1. The frames became increasingly difficult to keep straight on the lines as I moved towards each end.

 

2. At 1/16" wide, the frames looked too wide for the scale (Antscherl/Herbert used 1/16" square stock at 1:48 scale, so it's not surprising really).

 

So, there was nothing for it but to scrap another day's work and re-think. 

 

I decided to have a go at carving grooves into the plug - this to make it easier to keep the frames aligned.  At this point, I also modified the framing plan slightly to incorporate a couple of cant frames forward - previously they were all square frames.  The grooves were cut by first scoring with an Exacto blade, then working over with a knife edge file, and finally a square edge file.

 

I also decided to change the dimension of the frames to 1/32" square stock.  This would be in keeping with Antscherl/Herbert adjusted to 1:90 scale.  Unfortunately, I didn't have any Holly of this dimension, so decided to use Pear instead.  To make it more flexible, I soaked the Pear strips in water until they no longer floated. Then I carefully bent them over the plug and clamped them in place to dry.

 

Here is a couple of pics of the carved plug with a couple of frames clamped up.

 

 

 

When it came to the last three frames at the stern, even the super soaked Pear wasn't playing the game.  After scratching my head for a while and wishing for some Holly of the right dimension, I answered my own question.  I took some 1/64" x 1/16" Holly strip and very carefully split it in half to give dimensions of 1/64" x 1/32".  By laminating two of these together, I could achieve the 1/32" sq dimension overall, while having the advantage of the very thin and very flexible Holly to bend into the stern frames.  The different coloured timbers of the frames won't be seen as the boat will be painted anyway.

 

A bit hard to see in this pic, but there is a laminated pair of Holly frames being formed under the mini-clothes pegs.  The pegs gave just the right clamping profile to help with the reverse shape of the frame curve.

 

 

Lastly, here is a shot of a few of the finished frames.  They have been labelled as they are too small to actually write on (1/32" sq is about 0.8mm sq for the metric folks).  The Holly double laminated frame is in the top left corner (labelled '6').

 

 

Now that this method seems to be working out, the next task will be to line out the hull and then plank it.     

 

Before I can do that though, I will need to re-surface the plug with sanding sealer/wax............

 

Still got a few frames to finish off first though.  Stay tuned.......

[Blue Ensign]

Wonderful fine work Grant, I think your future is as a miniaturist

 

B.E.

[JesseLee]

What patience, persistence & skill !

[Sjors]

Grant,

 

Are you sure that they are little boats and not UFO's ????????

And now we are talking about little boats....you have my adres for the old ones       

Great job you are doing...strange but great !

 

[gjdale]

Thanks B.E., JesseLee and Sjors (and all of the "likes") - your continued support and encouragement has really kept me going of late - I've come within a hairs breadth of giving up on these little cutters, but the support from all of you helps me to keep things in perspective and resolve to continue.  So Sjors, they very nearly did become UFOs (UnFinished Objects)

 

25' Cutters (continued)

 

The last few days have been somewhat "challenging"  (the air in the shipyard is still an interesting shade of blue, and my long suffering wife has learnt to keep well away from the shipyard of late, occasionally slipping food and drink through the door).

 

The first issue I had to resolve was how to hold the keel/backbone assembly rigid in the plug while I applied the planking.  I would like to acknowledge here the very kind assistance of Greg Herbert (dvm27), who was good enough to answer a number of PMs while I quizzed him about the method used by he and David Antscherl, while I searched for a way to apply that thinking to my own version of their technique.  Greg suggested adding an extension to the fore section of the plug to grip the stem, so that is what I did. I was also trying to figure out the lining out of the hull, and had been a little stumped by the placement of the Garboard strake.  Again, Greg offered a little advice and I managed to work it out from there.  After lining out the plug hull, I gave it several coats of sanding sealer to both preserve the lining out markings, and prevent the planks from inadvertently sticking to the plug.

 

In these two pics, you can see both the lining out and the "Herbert Horns" (as I've dubbed them):

 

 

 

Then it was time to fit the Garboard strake.  This gave me more grief than I am capable of describing, but we got there in the end.  Here's a couple of pics of the Garboard in place. (Remember also that while I'm showing pics of one boat, I'm building two of them simultaneously).  In these photos, you can also see a couple of frames in place.  These were an experiment and were designed to be "sacrificial" frames.  The idea was to spot glue the keel to them to assist in keeping the keel rigid.  I attached four such frames to each boat.  It didn't work  - I suspect due to insufficient gluing surface (the keel would come away from the frame at the slightest provocation). The upper end of the stem is glued into the gap between the Herbert Horns.

 

 

 

One of the issues I have been facing is finding a way to clamp the pieces in place while the glue dries.  This has been my single greatest source of frustration      , but I eventually managed to find a way using a variety of different sorts of clamps.  Nevertheless, I did find that there was a slight gap in places between the Garboard and the keel.  This is partially because I could not see a way to cut a proper rabbet into the keel at these dimensions.  Time then to try a new product......  and the winner is, Superphatic Glue, by Deluxe Materials (the RC Aircraft modellers will probably be familiar with this stuff).  It is an ultra thin aliphatic glue that also has a strong wicking action.  I was able to use this to run along the slight gap and wick into it.  I was very pleased with the result as it made the bond between Garboard and Keel quite strong (as I found out later.......)

 

I then went to the next plank for each, spiling using the tape and pencil method described previously to create a card template before cutting the plank. Oh, by the way, I'm using 1/64" thick Boxwood for the planking this time around.  It is very nice to work with, and while not quite as pliable as Holly, it's not far off at this thickness.  Before fitting, the upper edge (i.e. closest to the sheer line) of the Garboard plank was sanded to slight chamfer, and the "under edge" of the next plank was likewise chamfered.  This creates a better overlapping join and something of a flat mating surface for the glue to grip onto.

 

Once again, clamping was a real issue and the delicacy of the parts was proved several times as I managed to break both stems and both sternpost/transom assemblies.       This was when I discovered how good the bond between the Garboard and keel was, as the "shell" came away from the plug completely, with planks and keel in tact.  At least that was reassuring and I now know that I shouldn't have a problem with the planks sticking to the plug! 

 

Here's a couple of pics of the the second plank in place.  The Apron on the bow is proving quite useful as an alternative to a Rabbet, as it gives the planks a landing place along the stem.

 

 

 

In these pictures you can also just make out the "gain", which is where the overlapping of the planks disappears at the bow so that they are flush to each other along the stem.

 

Well, I've now been on leave for two weeks.  At the start of this period, I had hoped to have completed these two boats by the time I went back to work. Instead, I seem to be further behind than when I started.  Oh well, at least some learning has taken place!  Hopefully, the planking will get a little easier from here on (famous last words!).     

 

Stay tuned........

Edited August 3, 2014 by gjdale

[augie]

Thanks for taking the time to document this experience, Grant.  Those 'horns' look like an idea for other, similar situations.  Congratulations on your perserverance!

[Remcohe]

Your persistence will pay off... And I admire the way you are tackling this challenge 

 

Remco

[mobbsie]

Patience and determination by the bucket load, well done mate, I hope you have got it sorted now.

 

You wouldn't think that something so small would give so much trouble.  

 

So you've used your full vocabulary of mattlock language and most likely made up a few extras, no wonder Georgina stayed clear.  

 

Stick with it mate, all will come good in the end, and forget about the UFO's.  

 

Be Good

 

mobbsie

[mtaylor]

Excellent problem solving.  Invectives do assist as I've found out.  I think when you're finished planking, you'll find it was worth the effort.  Nice going.