Group Prototype HMS Winchelsea - FINISHED - 1764 - by Chuck (1/4" scale)

[dvm27]

Nice job on those stanchions, Chuck. Just curious if the contemporary model had wooden rails between them or if they were hemp? I like the later look.

[Chuck]

Thanks.  I dont have a clear picture of that so I just went with wood.  One could try it as it would be interesting.  I havent seen that done.  Actually I dont think this particular Contemporary model has railings around any of the companionways.  That is also an option.   Many didnt show them at all.  Some only show the railings around the companionway on the quarter deck.   

 

I am not sure why but I suspect safety wasnt a priority except on those companionways that were used by the captain and officers.   If a common sailor fell down the ladderway  it wasnt a huge concern for the admiralty....LOL.

[Gus M]

every update amazes me more and more with your great work, it's fantastic.

PS also, every day I wonder how this boat would be in natural color of the wood and not painted in red, it is a question of my personal taste for these things, nothing else.

[Chuck]

I think you should make one and find out....Thanks for the kind words.  😀

[Gus M]

maybe in a couple of years or three...I don't have the capacity to build something as beautiful.

Although I confess to have been tempted to buy the Syren at ModelShpways and follow its construction.

[GrandpaPhil]

That’s looking awesome!

[Rustyj]

Oh yeah for me the red capstan is definitely the way to go. 

[Stuntflyer]

Ditto!

[Chuck]

I havent done much more work on the deck fittings but I did manage to complete the base for the case...you probably saw that in the other topic.

 

But in addition to that and catching up with making blocks I managed to complete the templates for the quarter deck.  I am thinking and planning way far ahead.  I thought I would share them with you.

 

You guys know that I will be planking the quarter deck like the Amazon contemporary model.   

 

 

These templates will make the job much easier.  They contain all of the reference marks and locations for the Qdeck fittings, and even the deck planking.  You wont have to line off the qdeck or f'castle.  The deck planks are all worked out with the appropriate taper.   The deck beams are shown  so all you have to do is fold the template along any deck beam and you have an instant tick strip to transfer to each deck beam.

 

In addition, the carlings are all added in red so they can be added etc.  Its really a cheat sheet for positioning everything when we work on the Qdeck.

 

But thats not why I posted the pictures.  These will hopefully give you a really good idea well ahead of time of how much of the lower deck can be seen by going with this set-up.   There are only the bare minimum of qdeck planks added to accommodate the guns and deck fittings down the center.  This leaves very wide "runways" which are open and give you a really good look at the lower deck.   Its also much more balanced than planking half the qdeck in its entirety.   Note how we can leave the open area the entire length of the qdeck unlike other "lesser" kits that havent properly details the great cabin windows, etc.   The same will be true at the bow and f'castle as most commercial POB kits dont ever model the gun deck all the way up to the stem.   They usually have an ugly bulkhead that blocks most of the forward part of the gundeck and manger area.  This makes our Winnie project look a lot more correct and similar to an actual POF or contemporary admiralty model.

 

And one last fun photo under the qdeck......with so much open on the qdeck planking there is enough light getting down to the gundeck so you can see everything clearly.  I am also testing the height of that capstan which fits perfectly.....😄

 

[Stuntflyer]

Nice, Chuck! That's an improvement from the last template I saw the other day at your place. The one that made it difficult to see anything down below.

 

Mike

Edited April 26, 2021 by Stuntflyer

[Chuck]

Third time is a charm.  I redid them a few times to add a whole bunch of detail filks would need.  I think they are good to go now.

 

Hours can easily be spent in prep work like this before and sawdust starts being made again.

[Stuntflyer]

All the more reason now to keep things neat down below.

[fnkershner]

Wow! I can't think of anything else to say. Just Wow!

[Chuck]

Thank You...

The hanging knees are laser cut just like the lodging knees.  BUT you have considerably more shaping to do.  Yes you must tweak it to fit snug against the bulwarks while siting against the deck beam.   But there is more to it.   Everyone has the deck clamp along the bulwarks but it may be a different height or even width on everyone's model.   So the knee is laser cut without any notch for the deck clamp.   You must temporarily place the deck beam in position so you can hold the knee in place to test its fit.  Then mark where the deck clamp should be so you can file the notch in the hanging knee.  This will allow the knee to sit flush against the bulwarks.

 

The pic below shows the next two hanging knees for this deck beam.   I filed those notched to fit around the deck clamp.  This required a lot of frequent testing and re-testing for a tight fit.   Then I painted it red but kept the top natural with a clean unpainted area.

 

NOTE:   You also have to round off the inboard end which you can see as indicated by the blue arrow in the last photo.  Do this ahead of time as well.  You can add bolts if you want before gluing the knees in position but they will hardly be seen at all.

 

The hanging knee is glued against the aft side of the beam as you can see.  I added two on each side so far.  The deck beam was only glued in position just before adding these pre-shaped knees.  You can see the lodging knee sitting on the deck beams ready to be glued into position next.   Note that blue arrow which shows how you should round off the end of the hanging knee so it mirrors the end of the lodging knee I just place behind it.  I hope that makes sense.

 

I will now move forward and place another deck beam and shape the lodging or hanging knees for it.   I proceed to work one beam at a time after the deck fittings are finished below them.  Slowly I am working may way forward to complete the quarter deck framing.

 

Any questions on the knees.

 

[Jim Rogers]

Where beams bolted into place and should we simulate bolts?

 

[Chuck]

Thats up to you...they wont be seen at all so its a bit of a waste of time for my needs.  But I see folks adding bolts for everything.  I am not sure if the beams were bolted themselves or if the knees are bolted and thus keep the deck beams in position.   That is something I would read up on in the Full Framed Model books if I were to add those details.

 

Chuck

[Stuntflyer]

Chuck,

 

How many of hanging knees need to be made?

 

Mike

[Chuck]

Under the quarter deck there are six per side including one that is curved or shifted around a gun port.

[Rustyj]

9 hours ago, Chuck said:

Under the quarter deck there are six per side including one that is curved or shifted around a gun port.

Looks great and sounds like fun!

[Chuck]

Moving right along.....or forward so to speak

 

You saw me build the capstan and I am using the red one....all I had to do was really make the two pawls.  I just used a strip of 3/64 x 3/64 boxwood.  I cut them to length.....shaped them as shown.   The arse end being rounded off.  I drilled a hole through that end so I could insert some black fishing line to simulate the bolt or pin on the pawl.  Painted them black with some weathering powder and glued them on.  Notice how I sanded the back of each pawl thinner so the part that engages the capstan is thicker.  Dont mind all the dust!!!

 

Then I continued forward adding beams ....lodging knees and hanging knees...

 

UNTIL I reached the area you see below.   The beam is permanently installed.  But the two columns are not.   These are just temporarily positioned.  Do not glue these two columns in yet.   Note how they were morticed into the coaming.   These two columns will need to be lined up perfectly with the Main jeer bits......and gallows.  The crank handle for the chain pumps will run through all of these elements and the need to be positioned only after the chain pumps are made.   That will come soon.   So just position them like this without glue.   

 

 

In fact....the next two (the last two) deck beams wont be added permanently yet either.   They will not be glued into position until after we have the chain pumps all finished and those crank handles installed.  But you will be testing with them while you build those elements...

 

For example....time to make the Main jeer bitts.   These actually sit directly under the forward most deck beam or breast beam.

 

They are laser cut and just like the columns, the uprights are etched on both sides for reference.   These are boxwood as well.   You will notice some heavy char on the sides of these because they are very thick at 3/16" thick.   Rather than just sand or file off the char from the sides of these, I scraped the char off first.   I used a number 11 blade.  That should remove most of it so whatever remains can be cleanly and easily sanded away.   Boxwood in this thickness requires much more laser power to cut through and thus more charring.   

 

Notice how the front and back of the uprights are flat without any dimension.  You have etched reference lines but you must still use some blades, chisels, files or whatever you are comfortable with....to mimic the profile laser cut on both sides.    These take some time to shape and do properly but they arent difficult.   As you can see they clean up beautifully and make some really nice jeer bits.  The two sheaves are all laser cut for you on both sides.....how nice is that???  You could round off the sheaves if you like for extra credit.

 

The jeer bitts were painted red and positioned beneath the Breast beam or that first qdeck beam.    Nothing is glued in yet....these are just tests in preparation for completing the chain pumps.  It rests right against the coaming behind it.   The cross beam is on the aft side.  But I will mention....

 

This is important,  the Breast beam is actually wider than all of the other deck beams.   Its 3/16" wide.   In addition, you must scrape a decorative molding and glue it the fore side of this beam.   The molding was scraped from a 3/32" x 1/32" boxwood strip.  Deck planking and margin planks will over hang this breast beam and look very nice.  I dont know if you can see or make out the molding on the beam.   But the jeer bitts are tested under it.   It is starting to look good now that more fittings are being added.   Next up the gallows which is almost the same as the jeer bitts but has a fancy top.  It is positioned just forward of the main mast.  Thats next!!!

A little farther away to see more of the hull at this stage....remember those two remaining deck beams are NOT glued in yet......

 

And farther away still as the fittings continue to be added...

 

 

 

[Matt D]

This looks fantastic, Chuck!  I don’t know how you get so much work done when you have your hands in your pockets every time I see you!

[KentM]

3 hours ago, Chuck said:

Moving right along.....or forward so to speak

 

You saw me build the capstan and I am using the red one....all I had to do was really make the two pawls.  I just used a strip of 3/64 x 3/64 boxwood.  I cut them to length.....shaped them as shown.   The **** end being rounded off.  I drilled a hole through that end so I could insert some black fishing line to simulate the bolt or pin on the pawl.  Painted them black with some weathering powder and glued them on.  Notice how I sanded the back of each pawl thinner so the part that engages the capstan is thicker.  Dont mind all the dust!!!

 

Then I continued forward adding beams ....lodging knees and hanging knees...

 

UNTIL I reached the area you see below.   The beam is permanently installed.  But the two columns are not.   These are just temporarily positioned.  Do not glue these two columns in yet.   Note how they were morticed into the coaming.   These two columns will need to be lined up perfectly with the Main jeer bits......and gallows.  The crank handle for the chain pumps will run through all of these elements and the need to be positioned only after the chain pumps are made.   That will come soon.   So just position them like this without glue.   

 

 

In fact....the next two (the last two) deck beams wont be added permanently yet either.   They will not be glued into position until after we have the chain pumps all finished and those crank handles installed.  But you will be testing with them while you build those elements...

 

For example....time to make the Main jeer bitts.   These actually sit directly under the forward most deck beam or breast beam.

 

They are laser cut and just like the columns, the uprights are etched on both sides for reference.   These are boxwood as well.   You will notice some heavy char on the sides of these because they are very thick at 3/16" thick.   Rather than just sand or file off the char from the sides of these, I scraped the char off first.   I used a number 11 blade.  That should remove most of it so whatever remains can be cleanly and easily sanded away.   Boxwood in this thickness requires much more laser power to cut through and thus more charring.   

 

Notice how the front and back of the uprights are flat without any dimension.  You have etched reference lines but you must still use some blades, chisels, files or whatever you are comfortable with....to mimic the profile laser cut on both sides.    These take some time to shape and do properly but they arent difficult.   As you can see they clean up beautifully and make some really nice jeer bits.  The two sheaves are all laser cut for you on both sides.....how nice is that???  You could round off the sheaves if you like for extra credit.

 

The jeer bitts were painted red and positioned beneath the Breast beam or that first qdeck beam.    Nothing is glued in yet....these are just tests in preparation for completing the chain pumps.  It rests right against the coaming behind it.   The cross beam is on the aft side.  But I will mention....

This is important,  the Breast beam is actually wider than all of the other deck beams.   Its 3/16" wide.   In addition, you must scrape a decorative molding and glue it the fore side of this beam.   The molding was scraped from a 3/32" x 1/32" boxwood strip.  Deck planking and margin planks will over hang this breast beam and look very nice.  I dont know if you can see or make out the molding on the beam.   But the jeer bitts are tested under it.   It is starting to look good now that more fittings are being added.   Next up the gallows which is almost the same as the jeer bitts but has a fancy top.  It is positioned just forward of the main mast.  Thats next!!!

A little farther away to see more of the hull at this stage....remember those two remaining deck beams are NOT glued in yet......

 

And farther away still as the fittings continue to be added...

 

 

 

Very nice.  Superb.

Kent

[Tim Murphy]

I cannot believe the detail that you have done on this ship. It is without question one of the best that I have seen done. You are a great teacher.

[scrubbyj427]

Wow! Stunning work Chuck. I can’t plank my deck fast enough now.

I think I’ll go for the extra credit on the jeer bits! Lol

[Chuck]

Thanks guys.

 

This is where you will start to notice a difference between the contemporary model.  The bitts and gallows for example are very different.  This is done to accommodate the chain pumps.  They will both have their uprights farther apart in order to place the crank handles for the chain pumps.  The orientation for the jeer bitts is also changed to make more room for the pumps.  
 

It will really start looking interesting once I

finish the gallows and chain pumps.

[Chuck]

The gallows are now completed....they are basically the same as the main jeer bitts.  The uprights are a little shorter to accommodate the top of the gallows which has that shape you are all familiar with.  The height of the gallows is equal to the top of the breast beam.  It is also  only temporarily in position.   I will be starting to build the chain pumps next which will allow me the ability to tweak all of their positions to align the crank handles and permanently install them.  You can see I removed that second beam as it will only make tweaking all their positions trickier.   That was just resting on the deck clamp as well.  Any questions.

 

[Jack12477]

Who is your friend  there on the deck with you ?  😉 

 

 

Very nice looking work.  A masterpiece. 

Edited May 11, 2021 by Jack12477

[Chuck]

The building inspector!!! You know how it goes..I have to slip him a C-note to overlook my shotty workmanship.😁

 

 

[fnkershner]

Chuck - Since you have such realistic scale figures. Do you have a suggestion on how we can obtain scale figures for our models. I find that when you display your work one of the first questions from visitors is how big was the real ship. Having a few crew members to give perspective really helps with this. I would love a handful of figures in Uniforms that match the scale and period. Suggestions?

[Chuck]

I couldnt find any.  I basically just browsed shapeways for 1:48 figures.  I bought a few that were offered in the best material.  I am no expert on those.  I have not found any English naval 1:48 figures of good quality.  Hence the mini me.